+2Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenCid
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+2Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenCid
Forget about that crappy card.
Lets talk about the deck that topped 12 with aether vial, chalice, and curse catcher.
thats a strange combination since I always thought chalice for 1 was the best for merfolk.
If any of his matches were covered, I did not see it, but I am guessing chalice was still at 1 for the vast majority of the time. You just have to play out vial/cursecatcher before chalice and hope not to draw any more after that (and pitch cursecatcher to FoW if needed). Overall it is a pretty cool list, tailored to the meta. It looks like his RUG Delver match up should be very good, Phyrexian Metamorph I assume made the cut because of the various popular Show and Tell decks around (a decent card anyway). I am, however, curious how he plans on winning against Maverick with this list, seems even more difficult than usually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow
I have been testing a Ub list myself with vial and chalice but no cursecatcher (for 3 Perish and 1 Virtue's Ruin in the sideboard). So far the vial-chalice nonbo has been pretty irrelevant. I wonder if that is still the case when you add cursecatcher too. It does not lose as much value when the game progresses as vial, but it is obviously still best if you drop it early on. Should be worth some testing...
He is running 4 cavern of souls to get his merfolk past his own Chalices if he doesnt have a Vial.
People, drop the Chrome Mox. I've been working my brain on Merfolk, and after an extensive playtest, the card disadvantage generated by Chrome Mox (along with Force of Will) is just too much. Every Merfolk you pitch for CM and FoW is a serious loss.
Still, that's not reason enough to stop playing Chalice of the Void maindeck. Why? Because this deck uses Chalice of the Void for one reason: Countering cheap removal. That's why it can come along in turn 2 or 3 with no huge loss. A turn 1 AEther Vial/Cursecatcher into turn 2 Chalice of the Void is often enough to win.
So, this is my latest list, if anybody is interested:
10 Island (the minimum number for Daze? I don't know)
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Mutavault
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Merrow Rejeerey
2 Phantasmal Image/Phyrexian Metamorph (not sure yet)
2 Merfolk Soreveign
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 Dismember
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Submerge
SB: 2 Hibernation
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Umezawa's Jitte
Give this decklist a try, and if you see any flaws in my conclusions, please share.
I tested a very similar list without the sovereign for kiras.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
I got spanked each time against MUD.
This deck has serious issues removing artifacts. I think Null rod as a 3 of is needed. You don't need the 2 relics or the 2 jittes i believe.
You can use the images to clear the bridge and you have (i use crypts) to clear the gy
Not that I give much fucks about MUD, but thanks for the share.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow
My sideboard is pretty tuned for Maverick and RUG (and to lesser extent Sneak and Show), which are the top 3 decks in the tier right now.
I like Chalice (and anyone that wants to dig through this thread can see that Chalice has actually seen some fringe use in this deck for a long time now.) But I think it's more of a sideboard card for us. We're not a deck like MUD or something, that's built around shutting down the lower end of the curve so its bombs can take over. And as a four-of maindeck, Chalice is going to clog this deck's natural curve in games where it's not as useful, which can make you lose a winnable game.
Basically, the direction I think Merfolk needs to go right now is to emphasize the tempo aspect as much as possible, and maindeck 4 Brainstorms and X Temporal Masteries. Along with this, we should squeeze in as much beef as possible. Wakethrasher might not even be such a terrible idea as a 1 or 2 of, since I guarantee that card has fallen off of everybody's radar, but it can sneak through for obscene amounts of damage off of an EOT Vial activation.
I think splashing, clever sideboarding, and experimenting with Temporal Mastery are the real incentives to dusting off the old Merfolk deck these days. I haven't put in enough testing to make definitive claims, but I have a nose for this deck, and it tells me that TM belongs in the maindeck more than Chalice (except for extremely specific metagames, like if there are 33% RUG players or something along those lines.) Also, people should seek to shake up their sideboards a little. Some of the old "auto includes" like Relic of Progenitus and Submerge, I think aren't pulling quite enough weight these days (or are outclassed by stuff that generates more tempo and/or card advantage, like Surgical Extraction or Nature's Ruin.)
EDIT: Alternately, for those of you who feel that maindecking Chalice is the way to go, have you considered dropping some number of Mutavault/ Wasteland and adding some Ancient Tombs? (This would probably require a slight tweaking of the creature base, to be able to take advantage of the extra mana... for example I might try dropping Cursecatcher altogether in such a list, since it clashes with Chalice a bit already, and Tomb works better with, say, Phyrexian Metamorph or Jace (if you want to get really greedy.))
:confused::confused::confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght
Did you miss the thread or you really want to squze chalice, mastery and brainstorm in the same deck (even if not all 3 at the same time..).
You sir just wasted 1 min of my life :mad:
Actually I was saying Chalice is a good sideboard card. And Mastery and Brainstorm probably deserve maindeck consideration, in the interest of revamping the deck a little bit, trying something new, staying modern and relevant. And that for those who want to maindeck Chalice, they might consider using Ancient Tomb and slightly tweaking the creature base (and not use Brainstorm or Mastery with that, because it wouldn't make sense. But I left that part unstated in my original post... Draw your own conclusions on why?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Miagi
Oh, and fuck off? Yeah... fuck off.
My current list:
// Lands
14 [CHK] Island
4 [MOR] Mutavault
3 [TE] Wasteland
// Creatures
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
4 [TSB] Lord of Atlantis
4 [ROE] Coralhelm Commander
3 [M11] Merfolk Sovereign
2 [M12] Phantasmal Image
// Spells
4 [NE] Daze
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 3 [M10] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [NE] Submerge
I´m very happy with this list, and in my tests the deck is getting good results.
Chalice @ 1 it´s very very strong!
I´m thinking in cutting the 2 jittes and put 2 dismember mainboard.
Opinions?
In decks with many creatures (like this one), I really like Jitte simply because it's so nuts. Defensively, you want to have them too because an active one on the other side is such a beating for you too.
Have people also given up on Kira? It feels like in the days where Maverick is playing GW instead of Punishing Fires, Kira would be even better.
Currently, Maverick (either version) is taking heavy beating from the Griselbrand camp (H genesis, Show, Reanimator) so we have to see what is going to happen in four days. Otherwise, if it is not banned, we can have good matchup for those combo decks with Daze, Pierce, Force, Catcher and Image.
Seems like the meta is now ripe for the fishies to comeback!
The decklist used by Adam Boyd at SCG Invitional (Top 8):
Maindeck:
Artifacts
4 Aether Vial
Creatures
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
2 Spellstutter Sprite
Instants
2 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
Legendary Artifacts
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Basic Lands
12 Island
Lands
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Spell Pierce
4 Submerge
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Why no Standstill?
-Mirrors arent as frequent.
-There aren't much Vial decks out there (Goblins isn't seeing much play too)
-Man-lands aren't as utilized as before.
-Stoneforge Mystic are easier to answer with everything above.
Finn and myself have been discussing this possibility (see previous posts), though I have not had the time to test this extensively. A minor tweak to the creature base that would be related to this change would be the inclusion of some number of Adaptive Automaton, though that card is also under experimentation (the obvious repercussions would be its dis-synergy with Chrome Mox and Force of Will).Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght
I'll post the results if do (ever) get to do some testing. Without even testing anything, I'm sure it'll be fun though. :laugh:
Kind Regards,
jares
:laugh: It's funny how all we need, for our fish to came out of murky waters and take a deep breath, is to have a combo deck(s) with Islands be "the best".
So much top8 lists to look at (with merfolks in it).
Long live Griselbrand! :wink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
This Saturday, I finished 2nd, in a small local tournament,
and Standtill, was the Best card of the day... I think is a madness not to play 4 of them.
The matchs were:
Armaggedon Stax: 2/1
The Rock: 2/0 (Mutavault/Standstill in game1, Vial/Standstill game 2)
Sligh Burn: 1/2 (lot of bolts to the fishes --> FoD ftw!... the sideboard laughed at me, in this round)
High Tide: 2/0 (crucial importance of two cracks of Standstill in game 1)
Im thinking to play for the next tournament, 4 CotV instead Cursecatcher, and modify the sideboard to combat "bolt & swing" strategies,. (U/R delver, Burn, Zoo, Rug Tempo)
although it is best not to focus on this type of match, and improve the others...
Any suggestion??
(this message was written in a google-english)
If you decide to play 4 CotV, I think these match ups have already been improved a lot, so you do not need much in the sideboard for that. Just be aware that CotV is also pretty bad against many non-blue decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfylion