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As someone who often plays Imperial Painter, and has played Nic Fit, Doomsday, etc. I would really like for one of the few card-quality tools that non-blue decks have access to to remain legal. If you have a problem with Miracles (I know I do), the cards to look at are Terminus and Counterbalance.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
The difference is that Imperial Painter wins because of the Painter-Grindstone combo and its Moon effects. A banning of SDT would basically do little to nothing to its viability as a deck. The last three Imperial Painter lists (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16480&iddeck=123224, http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16397&iddeck=122627, http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16217&iddeck=121157) that placed decently at SCG events each played only 2 SDTs in their lists, and easily could substitute something else for those Tops and still be powerful decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar
Let's look instead at tcdeck's listing of decks that use SDT in their main deck:
http://tcdecks.net/busqueda.php?toke...ide=&strict=on
The vast majority of that list is Miracles decks. The fact of the matter is that there is only *one* deck in Legacy which uses Sensei's Divining Top as an integral part of its core strategy. The random fringe BGx deck might use it as a source of card selection, and the stray Painter list might use it as a tertiary tool. All of those decks can still be just as good without Top and a banning of Top would not affect their core strategy at all. Miracles, however, derives most of its degeneracy from using Sensei's Divining Top to set up the Counterbalance lock and to pay one white mana for unconditional board sweepers. That is the problem with Top - it only really benefits Miracles, and it harms the diversity of control and aggro in the format.
Yes. SDT has a place in many non-control decks. I realize that they are mostly fringe strategies, however it can play a big role in these decks that are also fun to play. I would hate to see them banned out of existence even further. But, that's just because I like playing stuff out of left field. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar
Without any interrest to fuel the discussion here on SDT: It is the reason Terminus, Entreat and Counterbalance are that strong and all the repeated arguments in regards to "Brainstorm messing with Discard as a viable tool" apply even more to SDT (see: floated Flisterstorm against ANT for example)Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar
SDT is clearly a broken card in Miracles. It's one of the few cards in the format where the opponent resolving it turn 1 of game 1 will make me consider conceding the game immediately to have a realistic chance at winning 2 games in the match. Obviously a blue-white control list should not have access to a card that gives it a high percentage chance of winning if it is resolved on turn 1. Think about it.
I have. Your logic is flawed. IT's sort fo the difference between Tom Ross and Jim Davis playing the exact same lists; both will think things through considerably, but one will then play quite quickly. SDT is an enabler of slower players, but IMO, there's nothing wrong with the card in and of itself. The problematic part is the interaction with Miracle cards (specifically Terminus) and the soft lock with CB. Honestly, I'd go after CB before I'd go after Top if I were to ban something out of Miracles.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolofaTook
Just because a card is extremely strong in a single archetype doesn't mean it warrants banning; however, the case against other such cards (namely, Mind's Desire) is somewhat different, as SDT doesnt' allow a player to cheat on mana expenditure. Smart, efficient play with the card flat-out reduces the chances of drawing with the card in your deck.
What do you think about Brainstorm? It fits a lot of the same criteria you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
If you ban Top to kill Miracles, you also eliminate several other decks that lean on it for "fair" card selection. In fact I think it's funny that you say there's plenty of U control decks to choose from. Well, there can be non U control decks as long as top is around and UW control has been the best deck in Magic since 1993. I would much rather ban cards that only support that archetype to the elimination of others.
These points are related. The point is that, sure Bob is a 4 of deadguy and jund, and Goyf appears in Zoo (lol) and jund, but the best decks that play these cards are blue. SFM (D&T) and DRS (Elves) have tier-one-ish non-blue appearances but even those decks rotate in and out of tier one while blue decks stick around.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
Sylvan Library might be the best green card that's legal in Legacy, and it's not played at all in any top deck other than the occasional sideboard appearance from RUG or BUG.
As for the cards the block gave us... fetches are a REPRINT, so they do not count. Swiftspear died with TC. Only the occasional insane loonie like me or sdematt plays Siege Rhino in Legacy. And Mentor/Tasigur/Ugin are just bit players in already established blue decks. I think 1-2 cards a set are necessary to keep the format fresh, but each one that makes any sort of real impact just pushes blue decks so much that it ends up having to be banned.
IMO
Ban
Show and Tell + Brainstorm
cards are just too powerful, will make for healthier format
Terminus too. The card sits on any list planning to play creatures for profit in the attack step.Quote:
Originally Posted by porcupinetreeman
SDT is an enabler of fast spikes these days. It just lets them play lists that will win 80% of the time if they get to turn 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenslight
A card that wins when resolved on turn 1 as often as SDT does is broken. Unlike most such cards all you have to do is play a land and the spell and the field has tilted sharply in your favor against most lists.
Wait why would you want both terminus and brainstorm banned?Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolofaTook
Because SDT, Ponder and Preordain would keep Terminus sitting on creature aggro. There'd be additional inconsistency in the form of hands with a Terminus or two in the opening hand but it'd still be a kill card against aggro creature strategies that did not include counters or taxing mechanisms to forestall an early board wipe. Swords to Plowshares, Snapcaster Mage and Supreme Verdict are enough to fairly handle creature aggro. If they're not then Path to Exile and Wrath of God can supplement. A 1 mana board wipe in which the creatures aren't even sent to the GY is too powerful for non-blue creature aggro strategies to fight through, even the ones that try to win by turn 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds
Miracles isn't the only deck keeping "aggro" out. Quite literally everything else is as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolofaTook
I do not get at all why some people would want to ban SDT because miracle presence is obnoxious, either because of game experience, metagame considerations or draw issues.
SDT supports and can support other strategies than miracle: non-U control (pox like, nic-fit,...) and some combo decks (painter, doomsday).
If you want to decrease miracle's presence, why not ban cards which would severe miracle power, like CB or/and terminus? Banning SDT would anyway make these cards near useless, so the effect in term of miracle decrease (in power and metagame representation) will be the same, while letting some people play with the powerful SDT without locking away someone from the game (CB) or having instand speed one mana wrath effects.
Instead of banning blue cards, I would be more interested in in the printing/unbanning of cards that cannot play blue. We have combo elves, why not give us recruiter for combo goblins?
Give charbelcher channel and see how blue handles it.
Earthcraft would give creature decks a boost, especially that elves deck that doesn't play blue.
Skullclamp also plays well with more creatures than spells and also bring aggro back.
I am not saying any of these cards would never see play in a blue deck, but it would give rise to new non blue decks.
Even go as far as create a cycle of overpowered cards with a new mechanic "primal" you can't play instants or sorceries.
Right now I feel like the best deck is always the deck that abuses the best blue cards in the most effective way.
I would just appreciate more diversity.
And no- the small outlier of death and taxes doesn't count.
Concerning Skullclamp: Have you considered a UWR shell with Delver, SFM & Young Pyromancer..? Nowadays one doesn't need to build an entire deck around it to abuse it anymore. Skullclamp cannot be unbanned. In the worst case it'd make a Delver a 4/1 flyer that gives you 2 cards when it dies. Otherwise, you give every spell in a tempo deck kicker :1: to draw 2 cards. So yeah...Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
This is how balance should be approached in the game, banning just upsets people and leads to an overall weaker format in terms of power, which no one wants. Printing good cards, ways for other colors to have some kind of manipulation like Sylvan Library, SDT will allow decks to be more consistent without having to go blue. This way it feels like everyone gets to play with very strong cards that balance each other out in the end. Of course Wizards don't care or don't know how to do this and will inevitably print broken blue cards time and time again.Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
Cantrips and Force of Will are the reasons why Blue is on top. Whenever you play a non-Force deck that doesn't have a T1 kill, you accept that you cannot beat some decks like Storm and Belcher. You accept that your games against other combo will also be iffy at best. In a format like Legacy that's not acceptible. You're going to walk into those MU's all the time.
Give us a non-Blue replacement for Force and we have the problem solved. Thalia does this for DnT.
Thalia stops combo on your T0? That's news to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by YamiJoey
I agree that part of the problem is the lack of super-early combo hate in other colors, though.
Excuse me. Which decks "lean" on SDT? Do you count Imperial Painter which run 0-2 SDTs in their deck or the weekly flavors of 12-Post Jeremiah presents? Does RG Lands or MUD, possibly the only decks I'd count as non-blue control decks, run SDT at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
The gap between SDT and Braknstorm in terms of enabling/supporting different decks/strategies is comically huge to even bring up.
Skullclamp is dumb; like hilariously dumb. People complained about Treasure Cruise and you want to see Young Pyromancer + Skullclamp legal *Bangs HeadAgainstTheWall*.Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
I like the idea of "primal" on a creature: 3/3 - G - Primal (you cannot play non-creature spells as long as ~ is on the battlefield).
Correct. That's why I think the calls for a Terminus ban are totally pointless in regards to resurrecting linear aggro decks. These decks still get crunched by SFM/TNN/S&T/ToA. For all other aggro variants like aggro-control (Delver) or aggro-combo (Elves), the potential ban of Terminus isn't much of a gamechanger if Terminus would be replaced by Pyroclasm for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevestamopz
Honestly, dood ... whats wrong with you? We're back to "Miracles w/o Brainstorm" as your point to argue? Do I have to repeat the discussion on this ridiculous stupid idea of you every three pages? Is there a learning disorder, I should have known from the start, to not have an infinite loop of discussing the matter?Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolofaTook
You're here for 10 years and only come up with an empty phrase like "healthy" like this being a TV Shopping Show trying to sell fat-reduced sausages?Quote:
Originally Posted by porcupinetreeman
edit:
I could swear that Pyroblast is red, Discard is black, Mana Tithe is White, Mindbreak Trap costs no mana and Sol-Land + Thorn is colorless. There are options, but there not necessarily tailor-made ones so people skip on the available option and rather whineQuote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Neither of those can stop T0 combo (with the exception of Mindbreak Trap - sometimes; a card that is completely dead otherwise, unlike FoW).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Pyroblast being run in maindecks is an abomination of the format by itself (just showing how warped the format is now) and Mana Tithe is unplayable (show me a blue deck archetype that runs Force Spike as maindeck staple - no, Daze doesn't count). Sol decks also prefer to go for Chalice + Trinisphere in Legacy, mainly because the acceleration isn't the same without power + Workshops, like in Vintage.
So you don't want to count Pyroblast because it's so damn effective in the current metagame? You don't want to run hate against T1 combo decks because it's not as flexible as FoW? You deny the fact that Imperial Painter does run Thorn of Amethyst to not mess with it's own low-cost spells? You disagree that Thorn is an underplayed tool for creature decks to fight spell-based decks, despite its place in Elves SBs at times? You dismiss the fact that you can run acceleration yourself to get hate online earlier (Starting with Simian Spirit Guide + Pyroblast)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
You can say there is no TAILOR-MADE hate you LIKE TO RUN, but saying there is a SHEER LACK of options in non-blue is false
The reason SDT isn't played more in non-blue/light blue decks is because Brainstorm is so powerful. SDT is tempo loss, card disadvantage, and mana hungry. If your plan is to use it to select, you need to catch up. That means playing some sort of bomb like Eldrazi, Nic Fit beaters, Painter/Stone. Most Top decks are soft to fast combo and strong denial draws like RUG's nut hand for that reason. If you're just filling your deck with as many textless cards as possible like Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, you don't need to waste time on Top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Miracles gets to pair Counterbalance with Top and even has the ability to blind-lock people out of a turn and get even more insanity online, while surviving early turns in a way Top decks without Counterbalance can't. Counterbalance is the reason any deck plays 4 tops, and it's the best thing to be doing with SDT while other SDT strategies are far behind. Therefore, Counterbalance should be banned rather than Top, because it is either unplayable dreck or an asymetrical lock that requires little effort to build around other than "jam SDT+CB into your existing UW control shell of counters, cantrips, plows and finishers"
If Brainstorm, Ponder, and Counterbalance were banned (and I'm not advocating all these bans at once, just a thought experiment), SDT would be played quite heavily, the diversity of "strategies" in legacy would still be so, but there would be more non-blue versions, perhaps even of existing strategies. SDT is a great card when you don't have to spin it 9 times a turn for your Counterbalance, and when it actually competes with other cards for consistency.
I do too, it might be too limiting on its face to do any work in Legacy but then again you have things like Evoke that can be workarounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I also agree with this. Zoo isn't coming back unless we do a real Legacy housecleaning, and we should be working to add cards to the format, not remove them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
None of these are even close to as good as FOW. Mana Tithe, really? Thats not even the best solution in white. Dryad Militant is probably better against any potential turn 0/1 combo since it beats cards like Dread Return and Rite of Flame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Even then, I am fine with having decks that can't beat turn 0/1 combo since blue decks aren't even really locks to beat these decks either. However they should be good against other decks and nonblue decks simply can't keep up.
We're talking about maindeckable (T0) combo hate here, since you seem to mix it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
- If you run red, yes, you can run Pyroblast. That doesn't mean it's any less stupid. That's like saying running 4 Leyline of the Voids during the Flash era is a good thing.
- There's a difference between FoW and cards that suck. Suggesting that Mana Tithe is appropriate, maindeckable combo hate is ludicrous and you should know better than that.
- Imperial Painter doesn't run Thorn in the maindeck, and looking up the data, it doesn't seem like the most stellar sideboard card either, like you try to make it look like.
- Creature decks that want the Thorn effect maindeck already run Thalia since it's the better card. Creature decks and Sol Lands don't go too well together, either, due to consistency issues.
- Elves don't run Thorn in the maindeck either. Again, looking at the data, it's basically seeing zero play as a SB card, either.
- There's exactly one deck that does the Blast + Guide thing, but Imperial Painter can get away with it because it has an entire strategy build around that, including a fast combo kill. Or are you really suggesting that everybody should now run MD Blasts + SSG to get a crappy FoW equivalent?
Every deck has access to Mindbreak Trap.
Not every deck has access to FoW, which is a significant investment, as it's always a 2-1. It also requires about 17 blue spells (besides FoW) to be consistent.
If Mindbreak Trap is that good, why does it see zero maindeck play and just occasional SB play? Because it's way too narrow and dead in most match-ups, unlike FoW. E.g. A+B combo normally need only one spell (maybe two) a turn to completely ruin you, while Trap sits uncastable in your hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
And here I am thinking it was because Sylvan Library brings home more bacon.Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
Because t1 combo aren't dominant, due to the existence of FoW...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
No it's because the card is terrible. Let's say you somehow miraculously get ANT/TES Game 2 with Mindbreak Trap because for some reason they didn't bother playing a spell that looks at your hand. Do you honestly think they're going to run headfirst into it Game 3?Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
Proof it won't happen
It's no card disadvantage at all. You invest mana and time to significantly increase the quality of your cards and reduce dead daws to zero, which alone is more than just making up for the tempo/mana loss in the early game, it wins games on it's own which you can clearly see everytime Miracles players board out their Counterbalances in certain matchups. If a player with SDT in play untaps more than two times with the artifact in play, their opponent is on their road to ruin.Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
In addition to my precious example of SDT winning games based on sheer card quality (which people hate brainstorm for also), you can reverse the argument for Terminus & Entreat, calling SDT the reason both Miracles are not just playable, but format defying powerhouses. We hopefully agree that SDT is the anchor to hold together the Card Quality, the Stack control, the board control and the finisher in Miracles.dec.Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
We discussed this in this thread ... like 4 times before now, thus I make it short:Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
1) Decks with conditional cards -> dead -> reductiin of viable archetypes
2) DtB = Deck with almost no conditional cards but great redundancy
3) SDT + Preordain >>> every other available tools for card-selection/-quality
4) Everyone is playing SDT + Preordain + SFM + TNN
5) Streamlining of the metagame
You mistook me. The talk was that you have to play blue for early interaction with combo, which is wrong. There was never the talk about quality or versatility or I would have not named cards like Mana Tithe with a sense of sarcasm at all ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
There was NEVER the talk about being maindeckable till now. In your last post you switched the precious "super-early" to "Turn 0" after I answered your question: I remind you once more: Don't change the questions everytime I give you an answer you don't like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
- You call Pyroblast stupid, but I call it smart running a card MB or SB which can deal with combo (S&T), Control (Counterbalance) and Aggro (Delver, TNN) at the same time. I get that you don't like the answer, but it's an accurate answer to your earlier asked question.
- There was never the talk about GOOD, VERSATILE, MAINDECKABLE, TURN 0 combo hate in your previous posts, but the initial statement that there is a "lack of super-early combo hate in other colors" than blue, which is wrong. You can't be mad at me for bringing up such a card like Mana Tithe just to make a point with a :wink:
- Creature decks that want Thorn do not always run Thalia, because it's a colored card which matters at times
- MUD (not Forgemaster variants) is by my definition a "Creature deck" which runs Sol-Lands, Post-Mana and Resistors like Thorns. I'd say Wurmcoil, Batterskull and Londestone go well with such a manabase
- I remember Elves with Thorns, but as they already run Black you can choose to run Discard instead which is another, mentioned, non-blue angle to attack "super-early" combo decks. Quod erat demonstrandum.
- You build around FoW (blue count), AN (cmc), Vial (Creatures, cmc), Counterbalance (cmc), etc. all day, but complain if people build their deck around Painter naming blue for example? If you want to play mono-red in a field full of blue, then yeah, run your Pyroblasts maindeck. It's not my fucking business that most Goblin players never thought about running the trinity of Warren Instigator/Simian Spirit Guide/Pyroblast to deal with the metagame. It's also no my problem if people are to peacocky to run Mindbreak Traps in their Sideboard to bridge the gap between turn 0 and them dropping a Thorn/Thalia/etc.
You are asking for a non-blue card THAT DOES EXACTLY THAT FOW DOES against combo for no opportunity-cost in running ... while we're at it ... can I get a blue Dark Ritual and Infernal tutor as well, because I don't want to have splash black in Storm...
edit:
The idiocy is that some people still think MBT wins them the game. MBT can ONLY close a window in which you are vulnerable, but has to be followed up with more hateQuote:
Originally Posted by Stevestamopz
Dear god please stop encouraging Goblin players to play Warren Instigator. It is such a fucking horrible card, there isn't a single matchup I would want that hunk of shit in. Also playing 4x Simian Spirit Guide and 4x Pyroblast maindeck in Goblins is a way to lose every matchup you actually have a chance in. If you want to beat Combo, Goblins isn't the deck for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
In that Bryant Cook vs Jim Davis match I posted earlier, it took Piledriver and friends + Thalia + Mindbreak Trap just to win a single game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
It's not "idiocy" it's just ignorance. If someone has never played Storm before, I can see why that person would think that MBT is the be all and end all. I played ANT alot during the Treasure Cruise era and that really opened my eyes as to how it operates and as a result how to attack it.
I can't believe we agree on something. Pigs will be flying tomorrow.
It's not my fault that you misinterpret my post to your own liking and despite the same context from the beginning (T0 = super-early; the context was also the lack of FoW-speed answers in other colors, assuming you read the full post I was refering to in my quote). Hence the clarification.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
- You call it smart, I call it stupid and a warped format. But you're also fine with a format that has 80+% Brainstorm penetration. Different opinions, I guess.
- Even without your misinterpretation, Mana Tithe is a horrible card.
- But how many creature decks realistically want Thorn? Even Goblins would rather splash white for Thalia maindeck than running Thorn.
- MUD without Forgemasters sounds like an outdated build. It also depends what your definition of a creature deck is. Besides, Batterskull is technically not a creature and gets also taxed by Thorn.
- If Elves cut Thorn for the black splash, maybe it isn't effective enough for the meta?
- Who's complaining about the way Painter is built? SSG + Blasts as a poor-man's FoW is a terrible suggestion for the general meta that only works in Painter due to the way it is built. And Mindbreak Trap still isn't necessarily enough to bridge the gap against combo, especially A+B combo.
I do? Where?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Opportunity cost is an absolute requirement and I would be fine with e.g. another set of pitch cards to do in-color things to punish combo. Such cards without any restrictions would just end up being the second coming of Mental Misstep.
I don't mind Brainstorm at all. It's the hallmark card of Legacy and the single card that gives Legacy its own unique status among all of the formats, as it is only playable in Legacy as a 4-of. Brainstorm is incredibly powerful and tilts the game in blue's favor but I don't mind that. Eternal formats will always be tinted blue and that's fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
What I do mind is a single control deck with a 1-mana sweeper and a 1+2 mana combo that locks out most decks on the stack. The presence of Miracles powered by SDT locks out a ton of diversity and a ton of archetypes in this format. Brainstorm simply makes most blue strategies more attractive to the advanced player, but it doesn't completely lock out alot of aggro and control archetypes like SDT does.
SDT's presence simply makes tournaments longer, makes matches longer, and crushes the diversity of aggro and control.
SDT is simply a bad card that offers very little fun for the format as a whole. The very mechanics of the Top are cumbersome and clunky. The interaction of Top with the Miracles spells removes all of the "Miracle" flavor from those spells and simply transforms them into dumb, absurdly efficient control tools with little to no intrigue or flavor.
If SDT were to be banned, Brainstorm and Ponder could still set up a Miracle spell, but with reduced certainty, the flavor of a "Miracle" would more often be relevant, and perhaps the deck would never see play again, but I think it would still be good, just not soul-crushingly powerful as it is now.
I just want to point out here that Terminus is in a completely different ballpark compared to every other anti-aggro strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Aggro decks can beat Stoneforge Mystic/Batterskull and TNN by powering out bigger dudes, or playing artifact/creature removal. They can pack hate in the sideboard for Show and Tell. Aggro decks cannot easily beat a Terminus that wipes the board completely clean at instant speed.
An unconditional instant-speed sweeper that puts creatures not in the graveyard but back in the deck that only costs one white mana... gives the control player an answer to everything on the board. It's simply ridiculously powerful. If you had to replace Terminus with more expensive (Wrath of God/Supreme Verdict/Pernicious Deed) or more conditional (Pyroclasm, Rough//Tumble, Firespout) sweepers, the control deck loses a huge chunk of its power and is far more fair.
Here's an idea... build your deck so that the average CMC isn't 0.7 and then you won't have to worry about being locked out the second Counter-Top gets assembled.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
Isn't adapting to the metagame part of Magic?
You do realize that there's a 60% chance the opponent doesn't have FoW in their opening hand, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevestamopz
Mindbreak trap can be a necessity, if you don't have access to FoW. If you do, and most people do due to Island being the better land than rest, there's no reason to run Trap.
*Just read some of your other posts. Obviously a troll.
So you are telling me we should all just stop playing the best spells in the format? Maybe we should go play Standard instead if we don't want to make use of all the 1cc and 2cc spells available in Legacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevestamopz
What you said sounds a lot like "I refuse to change what I'm doing to solve my problems, everyone else should change instead."Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
This is the same line of thinking that people championed when Survival of the Fittest was in the format - "Just play more answers! Deal with the Vengevival decks! Adapt to the combo!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevestamopz
There are times to adapt, and then there are times when a single card is just too good for the format and makes a *single* deck too dominating, and most importantly, doesn't add much value to the format to offset this dominance. It was that way with Survival of the Fittest when Vengevine was printed, and it is that way now with the interaction of SDT with the Miracles spells and with Counterbalance.
And guess what? The banning of Survival killed a whole archetype. Did people miss it? Maybe for a little bit, but in the end, the format was far better for it. There was more diversity, and more fun. Banning SDT would have the exact same effect - it would potentially kill the Miracles archetype, but the format would see more diversity in aggro and control decks, less tournament draws, faster tournament matches overall, and would be far better for it.
Miracles is the list that is making Little Bear aggro hopeless unless it's taxing heavily. Even the bear designed to stop people from drawing too many cards does nothing at all against an EoT Terminus off of a top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevestamopz
It's true that the blue shell's ability to find and promote Tarmogoyf, Delver of Secrets, SFM, DRS, etc hurts creature aggro badly however Terminus is the nail in the coffin.