Re: Thoughts on Recent Buyouts (Moat & LED)
Card prices will NEVER drop significantly unless WOTC decides to print them in a standard set (ie a set without a 'limited' print run). There are several reasons for this; limited print run sets like EMA, MMA, ect, do very little to change the price of desirable cards. Product is sold at an inflated price relative to the EV of the set, which causes prices to change marginally at most to begin with since the 'value' is partially eliminated. Combined with the increased interest created from such sets, and the limited print run which insures that no significant supply of any card would be introduced into the market, and the fact that some cards simply aren't reprinted (or cant because of the RL) means that it isn't unusual for these sets to make it -more- expensive than before to enter the format.
Buyouts are bad or good, they are indicative of the health of the market. Obviously the market isnt healthy which makes it ripe for manipulations that has been happening for years since legacy's emergence several years back. Buyouts will continue to happen and the market for eternal cards will continue to become more degenerate. All that is to be seen is whether WOTC cares or not. If they care they would do proper reprints, like they did for fetchlands, shocklands, thoughseize ect, and bring more cards into reasonable price ranges, and they would do this with much more frequency than they are doing now. If they dont do this, counterfeits will fill the demand and WOTC will have yet another problem on their hands. Hopefully the buyouts occur more often to try and force WOTC's hand, otherwise we probably have another decade of these shenanigans that do nothing but hinder eternal formats.
Re: Thoughts on Recent Buyouts (Moat & LED)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
btm10
Comparing a paper set to VMA is utter nonsense, especially when discussing the highest-profile Reserved staples other than Power. Masters sets are designed not to crash markets, and WotC makes rarity decisions with the secondary market in mind.
Masters sets are designed for limited first, with the understanding that they will be reprinting cards much in need of a reprint. No way would WotC put manafixing at mythic in any set meant for drafting, much less one designed first and foremost for it (Standard sets are also designed with Standard in mind in addition to Limited.)
Quote:
If that were true the TCG Mid prices would fall until they hit the market-clearing price, or the lows would rise as people realized that their cards could be sold for more. A lot of the buyout angst arises from the relatively fast rate at which the markets respond to them. If anything TCG Mid lowballs the price on NM because it includes all conditions, and many people still use it to determine fair trade value or to comparison shop.
Educate yourself. But since I'm such a nice guy, I'll help you out: Ctrl (or Command if that's your thing) + F + market price. Then maybe the following image will make more sense.
http://i.imgur.com/S2W9n0E.png
Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices and Reprints Thread
If there is anyone with legal/regulatory expertise, here is a rabbit hole I'd like you to consider. Since Wizards entered themselves into a quasi-legal agreement called the "Reserve List" regarding the commodity they sell, and since we know of private meetings to discus this list and practice of producing more of this commodity with representatives from companies who sell this commodity, is there some way to tie all this together and go after Wizards and/or the "secondary market" (i.e. big card stores) for price fixing?
I work in commercial banking and am well versed in concepts like collusion, but this usually happens between competitors. Maybe there is something there worth investigating?
Re: Thoughts on Recent Buyouts (Moat & LED)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LOLWut
His facebook profile, like most, makes me wish I could ship an entire generation to a different planet. They've all seemingly gone to Lifeworks Alternative School.
You know what? This guy is Part of the Problem, but nothing he said in that video was unreasonable at all. He was correct in his assumption that a buyout would drive a spike and people would be willing to pay $200 for a Diamond afterwards. Assuming that he actually did post this BEFORE the buyout, that looks pretty spot-on:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Mir...Diamond#online
Like I keep saying: we live in the world where people will find the maximum possible price for each card as quickly as they can. Sometimes the buyout artists don't make AS MUCH money as they could in more productive ventures, but it's hard for them to LOSE money because the price tends to still settle higher than the original. Speccing on lots of cheap cards could eat up the profit in transaction costs, I suppose.
Unless you pass a law or something to stop this kind of behavior (like we do for "real" markets) then it's the new reality.
Re: Thoughts on Recent Buyouts (Moat & LED)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutthroatCasual
Masters sets are designed for limited first, with the understanding that they will be reprinting cards much in need of a reprint. No way would WotC put manafixing at mythic in any set meant for drafting, much less one designed first and foremost for it (Standard sets are also designed with Standard in mind in addition to Limited.)
In a set like no Reserved List EMA price considerations would absolutely trump utility in Limited were they ever directly at odds. Even the current EMA didn't have GP support, so it's highly unlikely that any future one would, especially if they were looking to stabilize prices on currently Reserved cards. Adding fixing at common or uncommon would be trivial (Mirage fetches even work with Duals and were the main fixing in VMA).
Thanks, that was interesting. But even by that metric Tempest Wasteland (which is the relevant price) still $50, not $40.
Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices and Reprints Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the Thin White Duke
If there is anyone with legal/regulatory expertise, here is a rabbit hole I'd like you to consider. Since Wizards entered themselves into a quasi-legal agreement called the "Reserve List" regarding the commodity they sell, and since we know of private meetings to discus this list and practice of producing more of this commodity with representatives from companies who sell this commodity, is there some way to tie all this together and go after Wizards and/or the "secondary market" (i.e. big card stores) for price fixing?
I work in commercial banking and am well versed in concepts like collusion, but this usually happens between competitors. Maybe there is something there worth investigating?
No, there isn't. The big card stores/SCG wanted the Reserved List abolished. It was Wizards/Hasbro that locked the list in place. Until the lawyers and businessmen at the top of those companies feel it's in their corporate interest to scrap the list, it will remain.
Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices and Reprints Thread
City of Traitors is at $190 (with a few copies at $150). Ancient Tomb is $35+. Cute.
Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices and Reprints Thread
Cradle and sanctum seem to be getting bought out again.
Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices and Reprints Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stuart
I've been getting into ebaying stuff. I have a 5th City and a 5th Tomb. Looks like I'll wait a while before selling off my extras.
Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices and Reprints Threa
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ESG
No, there isn't. The big card stores/SCG wanted the Reserved List abolished. It was Wizards/Hasbro that locked the list in place. Until the lawyers and businessmen at the top of those companies feel it's in their corporate interest to scrap the list, it will remain.
What a company says to its customers does not need to be consistent with what it really wants. I have read the public articles that state that Starcitygames wanted the reserved list abolished. I have a hard time believing the sincerity of the message. It is not a good idea to take messages like that at face value.
The decision of how to handle the reserved list impacts big online retailers, brick and mortar stores, the current player base, and the value of thousands of people's personal mtg card collections. I support the continuation of the reserved list. I know I am in the minority, but I feel that it helps the long term success of the game.
I highly doubt that the reserved list will be abolished. Wizards, by declaring it to be unchanging, would significantly tarnish their reputation by going back on the decision. Sure, the current players that are starting from scratch (or close to that) could benefit, but it would be a bad thing for the game. Feel free to disagree with me, let's see if you care about it in a decade. I still will.
Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices and Reprints Threa
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ramanujan
What a company says to its customers does not need to be consistent with what it really wants. I have read the public articles that state that Starcitygames wanted the reserved list abolished. I have a hard time believing the sincerity of the message. It is not a good idea to take messages like that at face value.
The decision of how to handle the reserved list impacts big online retailers, brick and mortar stores, the current player base, and the value of thousands of people's personal mtg card collections. I support the continuation of the reserved list. I know I am in the minority, but I feel that it helps the long term success of the game.
I highly doubt that the reserved list will be abolished. Wizards, by declaring it to be unchanging, would significantly tarnish their reputation by going back on the decision. Sure, the current players that are starting from scratch (or close to that) could benefit, but it would be a bad thing for the game. Feel free to disagree with me, let's see if you care about it in a decade. I still will.
Truth is hard to swallow. Wizard is better off just letting everything as it is. I don't see people complaining about vintage's prices as much for the legacy's ones. Whe have to face the fact that this format will end like the first one and, as time passes, people just gives for granted the new prices...
Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices and Reprints Thread
So there is an interview with the buyout guy on mtgprice.com, says he is doing mtg trading 14 hours a day and stuff. Creadle and CoT are cards he mentions by the way.
I'm really glad this is mostly a US phenomenon, but it affects the prices in Europe too unfortunatly, the prices are higher on most cards is somehow higher there anyway (even though boosters are cheaper). Tabernacle and Moat have been bought up really hard an MCM lateley too though.
If you do this kind of big time trading for a living do you have to pay taxes in the US? Maybe someone should give the IRS a hint ;)
Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices and Reprints Thread
I think it's a true now as it has ever been, pick a deck, build it and stick with it. This is no longer a format where the norm can be large collections and pools of decks. If you want into Legacy now, do your homework first.
Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices and Reprints Thread
Or just play standard and make wizard happy.
Inviato dal mio LG-D605 utilizzando Tapatalk
Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices and Reprints Thread
Back in the 1990s people called me insane for getting duals at what would now be under 10 euro apiece (they were all worth the same back then, a Plateau went for virtually the same price as an Usea). 'Idiot, nobody plays that type 1 shit'.
It's getting so bad now that cards which got bought out a few months ago get bought out again. Who pays 150 or more for a stupid City of Traitors?
Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices and Reprints Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stan
It's getting so bad now that cards which got bought out a few months ago get bought out again. Who pays 150 or more for a stupid City of Traitors?
A lot if people. It is the one heavy roadblock for those who had Modern Eldrazi who wish to play it in Legacy. If you where told you just needed to buy 8 cards (Tomb/City)(Sometimes Wates too I know) and you could play Legacy why not do it? In fact many have been doing just that.
If I had no Legacy cards but had a decent Modern collection and I wanted to shift into Legacy, Eldrazi would be how I did it. This spike was on the wall for ages. It doesn't surprise me as much as make me sad. Painter just got even more expensive to build.
Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices and Reprints Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
A lot if people. It is the one heavy roadblock for those who had Modern Eldrazi who wish to play it in Legacy. If you where told you just needed to buy 8 cards (Tomb/City)(Sometimes Wates too I know) and you could play Legacy why not do it? In fact many have been doing just that.
If I had no Legacy cards but had a decent Modern collection and I wanted to shift into Legacy, Eldrazi would be how I did it. This spike was on the wall for ages. It doesn't surprise me as much as make me sad. Painter just got even more expensive to build.
I'm a hypocrit (because I'm about to drop 70 euro on an Unlimited Jayemdae Tome to complete the set, while I have about a dozen more recent copies of that card lying around), but it amazes me more and more how people keep on paying through the nose for this hobby. They complain about how expensive life gets, and then happily drop a fortune on 20 year old cardboard.
I have to wonder who finances those private buy outs. SCG can afford to do that, but where the hell do these creeps who spend 14h/day on magic trading get the cash? You need to buy A LOT of Moats, City of Traitors, Cradles,... to exhaust the market and put a dent in it. I can't imagine banks will line up to give you a credit line for that. Probably blowing away an inheritance I guess.
Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices and Reprints Thread
Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices and Reprints Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
What can you say to people like this...
One thing is clear: he's not a magic player.
Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices and Reprints Thread
Wow. I know Craig a bit from the Eastern PA tournament scene.
He actually is a pretty serious player - he plays Vintage, Legacy, Modern, all pretty competitively. Really nice guy in person too.
I guess he just puts business ahead of gaming.
Sidenote: I really feel bad for the people trying to get their playsets of City of Traitors right now. It wasn't more than 2-3 years ago that I bought my playset for ~$40-$50 a piece.
