[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

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Originally Posted by Jeff

I'm prepping my final decklist for the GP Saturday and I'm still on the fence about a few things, interested in some additional opinions. Here's my decklist for reference.

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Preordain

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress

4 Infernal Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony

4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard

3 Xantid Swarm
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Dread of Night
2 Massacre
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Questions

1) What are people's thoughts on the correct maindeck discard suite? I'm playing 6 discard spells main, preferring the 3rd Preordain to the 7th discard, which may be wrong, but I've always played 4 Cabal Therapy and only 2 Duress, instead of the other way around. I like being able to hit Thalias and multiple copies of Force of Will, and I feel like I'm good enough at reading my opponents that I hit fairly often with Therapy. Am I overstating the number of times Therapy is good? Should I be playing more Duress?
2) Just how necessary is Carpet of Flowers in the board? At this point the only thing I'm bringing it in against is Delver. It's sometimes hard to find space for it against UWR because I have to bring in hate for Meddling Mage and keep in all of the discard. Against RUG it's an easy swap, and against BUG it's gets abrupt decayed as often as it sticks around and is awesome. I haven't tested the RUG matchup much without it, though, and it seems fairly important. I'd love to find room in the board for a 2nd top and a 7th discard spell though, so if I can live without carpet, it seems nice.
3) How is the Death and Taxes matchup going for people now that 4 Phyrexian Revoker is the norm? I did a lot of testing this weekend, and both Massacre and Dread of Night had games where they were awesome and irrelevant. I tested with 4 Dread of Night and lost a game with 2 Dreads out to 3 Phyrexian Revokers beating down, blanking all of my artifact mana. I tested with 2 Massacre 2 Dread and lost games where I had Massacre but they kept a vial on 2 and just vialed Canonist or Thalia in after I Massacred. At this point I'm feeling good about the 2 Massacre 2 Dread plan, which lets me lock out all thalias but still gives me good answers to canonist and revoker in the deck. I'm boarding -2 Duress -2 Cabal Therapy -1 Probe for +2 Massacre +2 Dread +1 Chain of Vapor and that seems to be OK.
4) Followup to question 3: Is boarding extra Ad Nauseams instead of Massacre a viable strategy against D&T? Trying to go off before they can put down the lock pieces instead of trying to deal with them all seems like a perfectly good way to win. I'd still keep the Chain and 2 Dread of Nights, but otherwise I'd have a faster way to win that's also a valid sideboard card against Sneak and Show and TES.

I definitely appreciate any thoughts. I'm stoked for this tournament. I have 2 byes ready to go and I'm ready to count to 10 all day.

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My list is very similar as yours. based on my experience, 14 cantrips and 5 tutors are good enough for consistency and speed. I prefer 4 therapy 3 duress in the main, 4 therapy imo is a must right now.

I am not sure about the dnt mu either for I have few chances to test this. I plan to play 3 massacre. Maybe boarding some removal and massacre on the draw, race them on the play.

I think I'd really want 7 discard spells, now that basicly every deck plays either Thalia, Force or combos you out faster. I think 4 Therapy is fine though. If you expect a large part of the meta to play Bx midrange then I can understand the 3rd Preordain over the 7th discard spell.

Carpet isn't a fixed slot for me as it doesn't increase the MU's by a great amount, however it's one of the best slots for tempo decks (also solid vs Merfolk) which I would expect to face multiple times in any large tournament.

With my BoM list (which was quite low on the Thalia hate) I managed about 55%ish versus DnT in testing, although I tested against lists with 0 empty hate other than Batterskull. In the event itself I beat a scrub (although even those should know how to play Thalia on t2) and Thomas Enevoldsen while losing to Shahar. As you point out DoN is weak to Vial, Canonist and Revoker. Hurkyl's Recall solves all of these while also complementing the Decays against Chalice decks. I really like 1-2 of these, with Painter also being big. The UBr list (3 DoN, 1 Pyroclasm, 2 CoV to board in with 3 BW for Massacre) I had built was over 70% per match in testing for what it's worth.

I'm not a fan of extra Ad Nauseams in this deck because the first is already weak, the second is actually worse (even if it's a good card to draw instead of tutor for).

Concerning the swarms: do you like the 3rd enough? I found 2 to be plenty.

Hope to see some ANT lists in the top-8 this weekend.

I've been back and forth with the 7th discard spell for a while now. I was playing 6 main when I won my GPT, and I beat Death and Taxes twice in the swiss in that tournament, but even then I had the 7th in the board, and right now trying to fit more D&T hate in the board I've lost the space for the 7th discard, so I think I probably need to be playing with it main.

I find Xantid Swarm to be completely essential to beating Leyline out of Show and Tell, and I seem to see Leyline an inordinate amount of the time out of those decks, so I like having 3. Maybe I'm relying on it like a crutch, but I absolutely hate losing to leyline and it's the card that stops that.

I hadn't really given Hurkyl's Recall any thought, but I do like it against D&T quite a bit now that I think about it. I'm just not sure where I'd fit it in. What other matchups do I really want it? I guess against Trinisphere/Chalice decks it's a pretty good answer, but I don't want to trim Abrupt Decays because Counterbalance appears to be making a comeback.

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Originally Posted by MTG Junkie

1 Flex,normally the 3rd Wish
2 Burning Wish
1 Tendrils
1 PIF
4 Probe
4 Ponder
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Therapy
3 Duress

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Brainstorm
1 Ad Nauseam

4 Lotus Petal
4 LED

1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
2 Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp
8 Fetch
1 Flex,normally the 9th fetch.

lately Iv been playing the 2nd Swamp (double Island sucks in the combo turn) and a Top in the flex spots. With a Board of,

2 Dark Confidant
4 Dread Of Night
3 Swarm
1 Bayou
1 Grim Tutor
1 Empty
1 Tendrils
1 IGG
1 Sweeper

I think all the other 1 of s are terrible so i stopped playing them.
I stopped playing bounce as well. Sometimes your sculpting and have to waste it to keep sculpting.

Yet with all these changes i cant bring myself to play a non Wish version,why? lol

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Switched up my mana base just try it out

8 Fetch
1 Trop
1 Bayou
1 Volc
1 Badlands
1 Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp

Replaced the Bayou and the Pyroclasm from the board with 2 Carpet Of Flowers. Looks greedy, I know. I haven't noticed only having 1 Sea that much though.

I havent really liked Pyroclasm/any sweeper lately. I have been having to wish for Pyroclasm and play it in the same turn alot. If you wish for it and pass they just Wasteland you/slash play around it. Wishing for the sweeper just feels like a weak play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeff

I'm prepping my final decklist for the GP Saturday and I'm still on the fence about a few things, interested in some additional opinions. Here's my decklist for reference.


Questions

1) What are people's thoughts on the correct maindeck discard suite? I'm playing 6 discard spells main, preferring the 3rd Preordain to the 7th discard, which may be wrong, but I've always played 4 Cabal Therapy and only 2 Duress, instead of the other way around. I like being able to hit Thalias and multiple copies of Force of Will, and I feel like I'm good enough at reading my opponents that I hit fairly often with Therapy. Am I overstating the number of times Therapy is good? Should I be playing more Duress?
2) Just how necessary is Carpet of Flowers in the board? At this point the only thing I'm bringing it in against is Delver. It's sometimes hard to find space for it against UWR because I have to bring in hate for Meddling Mage and keep in all of the discard. Against RUG it's an easy swap, and against BUG it's gets abrupt decayed as often as it sticks around and is awesome. I haven't tested the RUG matchup much without it, though, and it seems fairly important. I'd love to find room in the board for a 2nd top and a 7th discard spell though, so if I can live without carpet, it seems nice.
3) How is the Death and Taxes matchup going for people now that 4 Phyrexian Revoker is the norm? I did a lot of testing this weekend, and both Massacre and Dread of Night had games where they were awesome and irrelevant. I tested with 4 Dread of Night and lost a game with 2 Dreads out to 3 Phyrexian Revokers beating down, blanking all of my artifact mana. I tested with 2 Massacre 2 Dread and lost games where I had Massacre but they kept a vial on 2 and just vialed Canonist or Thalia in after I Massacred. At this point I'm feeling good about the 2 Massacre 2 Dread plan, which lets me lock out all thalias but still gives me good answers to canonist and revoker in the deck. I'm boarding -2 Duress -2 Cabal Therapy -1 Probe for +2 Massacre +2 Dread +1 Chain of Vapor and that seems to be OK.
4) Followup to question 3: Is boarding extra Ad Nauseams instead of Massacre a viable strategy against D&T? Trying to go off before they can put down the lock pieces instead of trying to deal with them all seems like a perfectly good way to win. I'd still keep the Chain and 2 Dread of Nights, but otherwise I'd have a faster way to win that's also a valid sideboard card against Sneak and Show and TES.

I definitely appreciate any thoughts. I'm stoked for this tournament. I have 2 byes ready to go and I'm ready to count to 10 all day.

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1, 4+3 > 15th cantrip
2, it is not, A, XS is much better G spell against Tempo, B, it's countered by everything, needs G and skillful player plays around it C
3, kill through revoker... Massacre seems better... if they have so much luxury in the game like vialing in a Cannonist in resp. you A play bad, B, have to accept defeat... I can't remember when I lost a match to D&T, the recent lists doesn't seem too hateful, they usually don't have much and keep any hatebear hand, so speed is your best option - see 4
4, 1st step to succeed - have EtW main, Ad Nauseam SB, to answer your question.. no and obv. Ad Nauseam is not a viable strategy w Massacre

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Originally Posted by GoblinZ

play decay against painter, play xantid swarm agaisnt merfolk.And massacre is nearly useless against elves, since it is too slow and they have teeg.

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Thanks for the advice GoblinZ. Normally I would agree with you on the massacre, but this wasn't a normal combo elves build. I didn't even recognize half of the cards he was running and I rcently had played combo elves so I knew the general build/sideboard and hate.

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

1, 4+3 > 15th cantrip
2, it is not, A, XS is much better G spell against Tempo, B, it's countered by everything, needs G and skillful player plays around it C
3, kill through revoker... Massacre seems better... if they have so much luxury in the game like vialing in a Cannonist in resp. you A play bad, B, have to accept defeat... I can't remember when I lost a match to D&T, the recent lists doesn't seem too hateful, they usually don't have much and keep any hatebear hand, so speed is your best option - see 4
4, 1st step to succeed - have EtW main, Ad Nauseam SB, to answer your question.. no and obv. Ad Nauseam is not a viable strategy w Massacre

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I'm with you on the first 3, but I don't buy #4 at all. I have tried Empty main and Ad Nauseam board. It's horrible. I made 16 goblins turn 1 against affinity and got raced. I shouldn't lose in a race with affinity. I'll stick with cards that actually let me win on the first turn.

Massacre is a beating off of Ad Nauseam, no question, but an all seriousness I've found that in most situations if I hit the Massacre I can cast it, pass the turn, and then kill them on the following turn with everything else I drew. It's been incredibly rare that Massacre has killed me in testing.

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

1, 4+3 > 15th cantrip

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I agree. I think pretty much everything is better than the 15th cantrip though. If you're even remotely good with Therapy, it should always get the nod over Duress. But I think a point can be made for up to two Thoughtseize or even Inquisition of Kozilek instead of some Duress. I've been liking a singleton Thoughtseize against hatebear decks.

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

2, it is not, A, XS is much better G spell against Tempo, B, it's countered by everything, needs G and skillful player plays around it C

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I can't say I agree here. I've found Xantid Swarm quite terrible against blue decks, especially if you already have seven discard spells. There's only so much room for disruption. You can't go running around bringing in disruption pieces 8-10, because you don't have enough to board out. If you keep on boarding out business for disruption, at some point your deck doesn't do anything anymore. Also, discard is much better than Swarm. Most of the time, if Swarm was going resolve, discard would as well, only they can't have, say, Lightning Bolt, Also, they're already dead then.
This is accounts for controlling blue decks, Swarm is still necessary against Show and Tell decks.

Carpet is a completely different card. Usually, I straight up swap Carpets for other mana sources, usually Cabal Ritual to hedge against graveyard hard and, in my list, Chrome Mox. Again, as with disruption, you only want a certain amount of rituals in your deck. Replacing Cabal Ritual is especially important against UWR Delver and Miracles, as they sometims have Rest in Peace, which makes your Cabal Rituals embarassing. Also, if tempo players want to limit themselves to two or less lands on board, they won't be able to counter enough of your spells - you Therapy them for Force of Will and they're dead. Also, you can bait them into wasting Stifle on Carpet in your first main phase and then use it again in the second. Yes, that works.

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

3, kill through revoker... Massacre seems better... if they have so much luxury in the game like vialing in a Cannonist in resp. you A play bad, B, have to accept defeat... I can't remember when I lost a match to D&T, the recent lists doesn't seem too hateful, they usually don't have much and keep any hatebear hand, so speed is your best option - see 4
4, 1st step to succeed - have EtW main, Ad Nauseam SB, to answer your question.. no and obv. Ad Nauseam is not a viable strategy w Massacre

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I agree with a lot of what's said here, up until the bolded part. But generally, Dread of Night plus Chain of Vapor is the best you can do, as Dread still immediately kills their Thalias and a second Dread is almost impossibe to beat for them. When I talked to Enevoldsen about Timo's list from GP Ghent, he said that upon looking at the sideboard his first thought was that there was no way he could win, regardless of Timo actually comboing. Also, assembling multiple Dreads is even easier with the cantrip-heavy builds.

Now, onto the bolded part. I think this is kind of contradicting. You say that speed is important but want to play Empty the Warrens over Ad Nauseam. I very much prefer having the second Ad Nauseam, but I'm not sure it is viable without a Chrome Mox or an additional Ritual (Rain of Filth) in your deck. With the cantrip-list, I don't think there is enough space to make that an effective boarding strategy. You could possibly could cut a cantrip for Rain of Filth (I really don't see how it's not played in that build, making BBBB+ off just one black mana is insane) and then replace the sideboarded Sensei's Divining Top with Ad Nauseam.

Also, I just noticed you are running Grim Tutor. You would definitely want to replace that if you're really looking to Ad Nauseam people. Maybe cutting that for Rain is better than cutting a cantrip. If you want to play Preordains, I suggest these changes:

-1 Preordain
-1 Grim Tutor
+1 Rain of Filth
+1 Duress/Thoughtseize (likely the former, as having Thoughtseize won't be relevant against DNT after boarding)

-2 Massacre
-1 Sensei's Divining Top
+2 Dread of Night
+1 Ad Nauseam

The plan against Death and Taxes would then be to cut all the discard for Chains, Dreads and Ad Nauseam.

I think one or two Thoughtseize is a fine idea, I've also considered it. I would still never play Inquisition main though
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I really don't like Rain of Filth in ANT since it doesn't combine well with Past in Flames, which is our main engine. It only starts being good in the middle game anyways, while Ad Nauseam is better in the early game.

Concerning the Empty/AdN: I suggest playing Emtpy in a meta filled with tempo and AdN in a meta filled with decks where you need speed. AdN is also somewhat better versus discard, but both EtW and PIF will usually be enough there g1 (and if you empty them g1 they'll have useless hate g2).

With a sb of 4 DoN, 2 Chain and possibly some Decays I don't think you want 2 Ad Nauseams versus DnT. You can play a control role with that much hate and just tutor chain them out.

GP DC list I'm planning on using, any opinions or thoughts. I went 6-3 last weeks at the Dallas scg, lost to rug delver, belcher, and merfolk

4 dark ritual
4 cabal ritual
4 lions eye diamond
4 lotus petal
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 Gitaxian probe
2 preordain
1 burning wish
4 infernal tutor
4 duress
3 cabal therapy
1 ad nauseam
1 past in flames
1 tendrils of agony

4 polluted delta
4 scalding tarn
2 underground sea
1 volcanic island
1 badlands
1 tropical island
1 swamp
1 island

Sb
2 dread of night
2 chain of vapor
2 xantid swarm
3 abrupt decay
1 pyroclasm
1 infest
1 reverent silence
1 past in flames
1 tendrils of agony
1 karakas

Your list seems very stock Caw. What is your expected meta game? I think providing that would allow us to comment and critique to benefit you the most.

1, I'm in for 1 Thoughtseize, worked fine for me

2, Tempo is the match-up when XS has been best so far, every Thresh/BURG guy in my LGS knows I'm playing it and still works great... It's therapy flashback at worst... I board it in instead of TS, Duress and/or a cantrip/LDV/Grim that's too situational to specify... don't like it vs. Miracles though... Carpet gets SPierced too often 1st land Trop is poor opening and decent player stays on his 1 max. 2 lands and fetches until you go off or he kills you and that last turn you topdeck 2nd Carpet obv.. that's my experience

3, the downside of 4 DoN is 1 is not enough often so you need 2 // keep drawing multiples when you don't need them and how good is it vs. Maverick or Bant? obv. if your only enemy is D&T 4DoN is insane, but occupies too many slots imo

4, it's not a contradiction, against random deck EtW 12+ is same good&better with 4xCT and more probable, T1 kill rate with AN is low with 4 LP, AN pass

RoF - I like the card, I have it in korean, I'd love to play it but it's underperforming for me with PiF, stays in DD

What are carpet of flowers for if not for RUG and other delver decks with plenty of soft counters? By the way, saw few people using Carpet of Flowers' ability immediately after it's played. Is this possible? I also feel it's a bit weird to take in Xantid Swarms when playing against a deck that will most likely leave in bolts and other burn to take care of your swarms. Or do you just hope they don't have one? ;)

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Originally Posted by Machahiko

What are carpet of flowers for if not for RUG and other delver decks with plenty of soft counters? By the way, saw few people using Carpet of Flowers' ability immediately after it's played. Is this possible? I also feel it's a bit weird to take in Xantid Swarms when playing against a deck that will most likely leave in bolts and other burn to take care of your swarms. Or do you just hope they don't have one? ;)

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Play it main phase one, declare attacks, activate main phase two.

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Originally Posted by Machahiko

What are carpet of flowers for if not for RUG and other delver decks with plenty of soft counters? By the way, saw few people using Carpet of Flowers' ability immediately after it's played. Is this possible? I also feel it's a bit weird to take in Xantid Swarms when playing against a deck that will most likely leave in bolts and other burn to take care of your swarms. Or do you just hope they don't have one? ;)

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It's not like you can't Duress the Bolt or Probe them before you sneak in the Bugs dodging all Snares, pierces, Flusterstorm and shit ... If they trade FoW for it, it's still fine.

I've even seen peeps wasting their sweeper for a Swarm, just to die to the following goblins

Well... 5 hours earlier...LGS, 22P, 4R:

List = BoM = http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post764462, no need for changes

R1 - UWR Tempo w budget manabase 2-0

switched recently onto UWR, inexperienced, his deck lacks some Tundras, I win the roll

G1 - he mulls 6, I bolt his T1 Delver and Ponder, slowroll my BS to play around SP, discard something and when he taps out for Geist in desperation I convert the BS into really unfair one with eot LDV
+lands+Decays+Pyro+CoV+Extirpate (I'm wondering what else is budget in his deck), -usual stuff, I expect some MM, Canonist and RiP

G2 - he starts Volc-delver go, when it flips I CoV it in the upkeep, he holds up mana to represent soft counters? dunno why - for my 3rd turn, I BS and set up a scenario of GP, IT, CR, 2xLED, 1xLP at 2 mana open with EtW+bolt on the top of the library, he has Daze+Fow+2delvers feat. crap, doesn't counter the ritual and ends up with 12 dudes on the table, finetnxbye


R2 - MUD 2-0

I know what he's on and lose the die roll

G1 - on draw, uncomfortable, I open nice 7 of lands, IT, GP, CT, DR+CR, varied CC are ok vs. CotV 1... he starts with CotV 0... I don't care much and BS into 14 Goblins T3, he has just 1mana lands and 2x Boots, I check for Forgemaster, it's the only card that kills me, he doesn't have/draw any... +lands+decay -duress-ponder-probe-sea-swamp

G2 - he starts with land go, I discard a CotV, he has 2 revokers and Wastelands in hand, my deck supplies me with enough lands so I set up a 2x therapy+12 Goblins turn with BS on top of my library... he casts a Ratchet Bomb so I fetch away the EtW and kill him with PiF a turn later


R3 - UGR Thresh 2-0

I'm paired down to one of my BoM teammates, I win the roll

G1 - I bolt his T1 delver, so he has just Mongoose for pressure+burn in hand, I'm not happy - my hand calls for EtW and he could race me... few turns, BS and discard later I have 14 gobs to match the goose, goyfcheck and we go on G2

G2 - I have a balanced opener, he is counter + cantrip heavy, stiflewastes to variate his effortless cantrip juggling and casualy concedes on 13 life vs. 12 Goblins, Cage in play and empty hand...

R4 - 4C "Esper" Nemesis blade homebrew 2-0

dieroll lost

G1 - opp starts sea+go, I keep something like Sea+2xDR+2xCR+GP+Thoughtseize, Probe chains into another one into Toa... that would be for 18... GP revealed crap+BS+SP... so I DR to bait the SP, my discard baits Snapcaster->SP again 2 turns later, drawing Pif+LED in the process, he goes all in with DRS, Nemesis for beatdown, I topdeck another LED, DRS is no good, he's tapped out and doesn't have FoW as 2xLED discard+flashback everything is enough
+decays +lands+CoV-usual stuff

G2 - Tundra+go, my hand is reactive with Decay, CoV, ritual, GP, CT and Pif... GP leads me to awkward situation - opp has RiP+Fow+Snapcaster... I leave it that way decided to Decay Rip if he plays it fast or discard it (I have too many cards in GY to ignore), he Thoughtseizes my CT, I Ponder another one and get rid of RiP, I get SnapThoughtseized, and BS into a PiF kill 2 turn later when he taps for Mystic, after checking his hand for U cards to go with the FoW which is absent...


4-0 (8-0) = nm Savannah

Congratulations! I see that the Bolts were useful this time!

Can anyone figure out what is the purpose of additional sideboard Ad Nauseam on Timo Schünemann's deck from BoM? I understand he built the deck with the idea of having best Ad Nauseams while keeping ANT shell but when do you board another one?

I could guess you replace top against fast combo or maybe replace PiF against deck that bring in a lot of GY hate but that seem kinda sketchy.

i've played many legacy decks over the past couple years, but am committing the foreseeable to mastering a storm deck.

3-1'd my local weekly 4-rounder this week—beat Pox, Jund Loam, and Rock. lost to shardless (double deathrite, triple goyf sucks).

had been playing Carsten's 2 top, 2 LDV list a couple months back, but this week i played the 13 cantrip (1 preordain), 1 grim, 1 chrome mix with main deck ADN/PiF/Tendrils, 4 CT/3 Duress and all the rest standard (no BW). i can borrow a grim for sanctioned events but the LDV would be nice as well.

sideboard is 3 XS, 2 Carpet, 2 CoV, 2 Thoughtseize, 3 AD, 1 SDT, 1 Empty the Warrens, and 1 Despise. that last card was a comedy inclusion since i arrived 5 mins late for the first round and had to fill it in, as were the thoughtseizes (should be 2 Virtue's Ruin), BUT it nabbed a thalia against the rock in the last round.

the Ad Nauseam—i love it and hate it. it won me games against the pox and loam on turn 2, and i won off and Ad Naus down to 1 with a single ponder available to hit LED in game 3 against rock. being short 1 mana when i'd like to go off it with (with PiF not viable) happened once or twice.

while i have access to a grim tutor, it seems that in the situations i found myself in it would easily have been a LDV as well. there's a fair bit more discard in my meta compared to tempo, so the end step tutor is nice. the 3rd mana really hurts (let alone the 3 life) but the 5th tutor effect does make a difference. i might try them both out in playtesting for the next little while.

couple thoughts that came up in conversation with a rather degenerate storm player afterwards: given that the miser Chrome Mox is there for post ad naus, and sucks in an opener.... what about Mox Diamond? it can be played for storm just as well as Chrome Mox, sucks in the opener just like chrome mox, but can help get hellbent when flooded (unlike Chrome Mox, which eats business/dig/gas instead).

final point to bring up: has anyone actually cast a telemin performance from this deck? there will likely be at least 4-5 other combo players (sneak/ant/high tide/tin fins) at the next big money event in a couple weeks time (20-30 man), and i'd LOVE to get someone with that as the last kill card out of the board. for yukks. suggestions as to a better 15th slot are also welcome.