[Deck] Goblins

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

The result was a 7-0-1 record over two small weekly tourneys.

4 Vial
4 Lackey
4 Piledriver
4 MWM
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Gempalm
4 Ringleader
2 SGC
1 Krenko
2 Tarfire
1 Stingscourger

10 Mountain
4 Cavern
4 Waste
4 Port

SB
4 Leyline-o-the-Void
4 Chalice-o-the-Void
4 Mindbreak Trap
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Pyrokinesis

MVPs
Chalice of the Void - This card singlehandedly won 4 matches for me. Hypergenesis, Cheerios, Affinity and TES.
Blood Moon - It occurred to me recently that manabases have become so ridiculously janky that Blood Moon has entered the category of a Free-Win bomb like Leyline or Chalice. It just wins games on its own now. It gives you such a huge advantage against decks that can't play around it. What's happened here is that DRS has made people think their manabases are Wasteland-proof, so they've stopped making any attempt to have a conservative manabase. If you notice G1 that your opponent isn't playing around Wasteland (especially with fetches) that probably means they aren't running any. So Blood Moon will let you turn-off their game T3. All you need after that to win is just to keep playing goblins and chumping until you draw them into deep water. It's pretty damn awesome.

PS - I liked MD Pyrokinesis more than MD Tarfire.

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Hey Jon,

congratz on the finish (undefeated for 2 weeks...nice). I really like your list and I will run 2 MD Kineses next time. That basically solved my problem of which 2 cards to include for SGC#2 and Sharpshooter. Well, actually I like SGC#2 so I might cut Gempalm#4 instead. In any event, the Kineses will got to the MD. Also I like your SB A LOT. I'm not sold on the Blood Moons though. They can screw RUG and BUG, but then again you need to shut down their DRS in order to make the 3-mana-card really effective. People have started to include DRS in RUG Thresh lateley, cutting Tarmogoyfs. I will probably copy-paste your SB too, with tjhe addition of Pyroblasts instead of Moons.
Thank you for the inspiration.

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Originally Posted by magicmerl

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Quarterfinals vs RUG 1-2
(which made cutting Vials a poor decision in retrospect).

My SB plan vs RUG:
In: 4 RIP, 4 CotV
Out: 4 Aether Vial, 3 Thalia, 1 Prospector
In hindsight I think that I should have kept all 4 Aether Vial and instead cut 2 PD and 2 Lackey. What do you think?

So, yeah. Thoughts on the day:
1. I kinda feel like my topdecking skills were poor
2. I had several hands throughout the day that were perfectly adequate overall but didn't have any red mana in them (when there are 15 in the deck). Maybe a Port needs to turn into another Fetch/Mountain? Maybe I should just shuffle my deck better?
3. TSH was moved to the SB and I didn't miss him MD. Most matchups where I want it I'm perfectly happy to tutor for creature removal instead.
4. Krosan Grip is pretty mediocre as artifact removal vs affinity. It's only really vs the Force/Counterbalance/Top/Enlightened Tutor decks that I want the uncounterability. It's possible that I just cut these and Angel of Despair and move Thalia back to the SB to add more goblins to the maindeck.

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Thanks for the report and congratz to you too.
About your questions:

(1) Don't never ever cut Vials against RUG. The deck is all about mana-denial, cheap burn and free-counters. Aether Vial counters the very strategy of the deck and makes an estimated 25% of their deck useless. With a Vial resolved on T1 the only thing you can lose to is early Delvers paired with multiple green creatures (and occasinally to bad top-decking skills, ofc). RIP is good vs. RUG - CHalice not so much.
(2) Shuffle better or cut a Port. Both are resonable options. I would start with shuffling though :laugh:
(3) I share your opinions on MD Thalia and TSH. I think they are better in the SB. Plus, I think Ethersworn Cannonist is better than Thalia as a SB card (vs. Combodecks at least).

@GoboLord-

I'm not completely sold on BM either, but the games it landed it just crushed. RUG had no answer. BUG had no answer (1 main deck swamp). Since these decks aren't going anywhere its nice to think that you can run an asymmetric sideboard card like BM to lock them out.

Greetings new to the thread and the deck (as a pilot) this is my first tribal deck as well,

I have decided to make a w splash to the deck and was wondering what you guys do vs Dark Mav in terms of removal, they seem to have a lot of turn 1 answers to lackey, a lot of removal with stp and abrupt, equipment to give you a head ache, and huge creatures.. I'm thinking in terms of removal and answers..

Will pyroken main deck be a good idea? since there is a lot of mav in my metagame...

there is also a lot of show and tell, hence the white splash and a few shardless bug...that usually makes it to the top.


thanks

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Originally Posted by f|i[p]

Greetings new to the thread and the deck (as a pilot) this is my first tribal deck as well,

I have decided to make a w splash to the deck and was wondering what you guys do vs Dark Mav in terms of removal, they seem to have a lot of turn 1 answers to lackey, a lot of removal with stp and abrupt, equipment to give you a head ache, and huge creatures.. I'm thinking in terms of removal and answers..

Will pyroken main deck be a good idea? since there is a lot of mav in my metagame...

there is also a lot of show and tell, hence the white splash and a few shardless bug...that usually makes it to the top.


thanks

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I'm not 100% sure what "Dark Maverick" lists look like, but Pyrokinesis sounds like a good card to begin with. Also, if their only removal is StoP & Decay Krenko seems like a good card too - keep him alive for 2 turns any you should win. Both Pyrokinesis and Krenko are very good cards against GW Maverick and I think they should work for "Dark Maverick" (whatever that deck looks like) too.
WHat is the White splash adding to your deck against Show & Tell? If those 3 decks are problematic I would splash Black for Cabal Therapy (veeeery good vs. Show & Tell of all sorts) and Perish/Nature's Ruin against Maverick and Shardless.

Many Show and Tell decks run Leyline of Sanctity. Nothing like playing a broken combo deck immune to discard ;__;

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Many Show and Tell decks run Leyline of Sanctity. Nothing like playing a broken combo deck immune to discard ;__;

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i'm not sure what this was reffering to, but if you were pointing out that Cabal Therapy isn't a good choice vs. S&T decks, then think about this:

Would you, playing S&T, want to have Leyline of Sanctitiy in your deck after G1 if you are playing vs. Goblins? i.e. Would you expect Goblins to bring in discard spells?

Depending on what lands I saw, hell yes? Therapy is an obvious SB card and brutal if it works, especially in decks packing Probe or with as much CA/fodder as Goblins and Leyline only costs a card to play. Now, if you side in the black mana too, that's a different matter.

To clarify: I'm not saying that Therapy is bad, on the contrary. I'm just saying that vs. Show and Tell you need enchantment hate too or you risk them just blanking your hate and laughing all the way to the bank.

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Depending on what lands I saw, hell yes? Therapy is an obvious SB card and brutal if it works, especially in decks packing Probe or with as much CA/fodder as Goblins and Leyline only costs a card to play. Now, if you side in the black mana too, that's a different matter.

To clarify: I'm not saying that Therapy is bad, on the contrary. I'm just saying that vs. Show and Tell you need enchantment hate too or you risk them just blanking your hate and laughing all the way to the bank.

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Okay, now I got you right. Thanks for clarification.
It's usually hard for them to see discard coming (at least in Goblins) because we are not packing multiple B mana-sources, not to mention that we don't have any B card in MD. The land-package that supports the B (or in fact: any) splashcolor is usually 5-6 Fetchlands and 1, max. 2 Duallands of the color in question. We don't need to fetch the dualland G1 so we don't give away that information. Even IF I had revealed my B-splash in G1 I would not bring in enchantment hate to counter their Leylines, bc if they DON'T drop it then they blanked your enchantment hate :laugh: I'd just bring in the Therapies and risk being blank'ed by Leylines. They also take the risk of having a 'dead' (not really dead bc of Brianstorm) draw if they draw a Leyline after Turn 0.

Your enchantment hate can easily be Oblivion Rings.

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Your enchantment hate can easily be Oblivion Rings.

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Sure, you can play a Rwb list with half your SB dedicated to Show and Tell.dec with including a card that is too bad as an answer to Show and Tell and too clunky to be an effective enchantment removal spell. Plus, you will likely be running less than 4 Rishadan Ports which is one of the better cards in this MU. Also I wonder what you think the match will look like: are you planning on casting Oblivion Ring on Turn 3 to be able to Use Cabal Therapy on Turn 4? This would mean you don't drop a creature on turn 3, neither do you use Rishadan Ports...and that all doesn't even work if you don't have both Cabal Therapy AND Oblivion Ring....I mean playing O-Ring as an answer to Leyline only makes sense if you have Cabal Therapy too. This scenario doesn't even cosnider situations when your opponent doesn't have a Leyline in play....

Overall that doesn't sound like a good plan to me,

Port. Right. Too used to pointy-eared gits who make mana, I guess. Argument conceded. ^^

My second time playing goblins at my local shop didn't go so well.

Main deck:
Tietze's Atlanta main deck except
-1 Warchief
+1 Chieftain
-1 SGC
+1 Krenko

Sideboard:
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Chalice
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Thalia
1 Canonist
1 Stingscourger
1 Tin Street Hooligan

Rd 1: vs. Food Chain-Misthollow Griffin-Emrakul 1-2 loss
Rd 2: vs. Esper Deathblade 1-1 tie
Rd 3: vs. Esper Stoneblade 1-1 tie

I felt like I played the games reasonably well. I had one questionable keep that lost a game. The biggest issue though was sideboarding: I try not to over-sideboard so as not to weaken the goblin density. Tonight I probably should have cut more.

jrw1985:
I'd like to try your list.
What's your sideboarding strategy vs specific matchups, especially Esper and RUG?

O-Ring and Therapy combined might be bad in Goblins and there might be no room in the mana base, but I won't budge on Mindbreak Trap being a bad card :tongue:

Seriously, play literally anything else. Most combo decks nowadays aren't so absurdly fast - they're resilient. Most also laugh at a single Trap. The main case where Trap is any good is Belcher, and Belcher is Belcher. It loses to itself. Invest in loaded dice or something. Play REB or Wear//Tear. ANYTHING but Trap.

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Originally Posted by Sockosensei

My second time playing goblins at my local shop didn't go so well.

Main deck:
Tietze's Atlanta main deck except
-1 Warchief
+1 Chieftain
-1 SGC
+1 Krenko

Sideboard:
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Chalice
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Thalia
1 Canonist
1 Stingscourger
1 Tin Street Hooligan

Rd 1: vs. Food Chain-Misthollow Griffin-Emrakul 1-2 loss
Rd 2: vs. Esper Deathblade 1-1 tie
Rd 3: vs. Esper Stoneblade 1-1 tie

I felt like I played the games reasonably well. I had one questionable keep that lost a game. The biggest issue though was sideboarding: I try not to over-sideboard so as not to weaken the goblin density. Tonight I probably should have cut more.

jrw1985:
I'd like to try your list.
What's your sideboarding strategy vs specific matchups, especially Esper and RUG?

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Against RUG delver I'm bringing in Blood Moon. Against esperblade I'd bring in tuktuk always, and I'll bring in Blood Moon if I don't see any basic lands G1. I tried building a super anti-esper sideboard and it didn't do much for me, so I'd suggest just playing your game. If you can keep their equipment offline, and you can keep Jace from getting out of hand, then you should be fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

Against RUG delver I'm bringing in Blood Moon. Against esperblade I'd bring in tuktuk always, and I'll bring in Blood Moon if I don't see any basic lands G1. I tried building a super anti-esper sideboard and it didn't do much for me, so I'd suggest just playing your game. If you can keep their equipment offline, and you can keep Jace from getting out of hand, then you should be fine.

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Sorry, I should have specified -- what do you take out to make space? I find that aspect more difficult with this deck than with others because of not wanting to hurt the goblin synergy.

About Esper equipment, I was proud to have won a long drawn out game 1 vs Esper Stoneblade in which he got both Batterskull and Jitte online. My prime top decking skills pulled a timely Ringleader into 4 goblins, including Chieftain. Teamed with an active Krenko it was enough to overwhelm those poor equipped Lingering Souls.:laugh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sockosensei

Sorry, I should have specified -- what do you take out to make space? I find that aspect more difficult with this deck than with others because of not wanting to hurt the goblin synergy.

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I take out Piledrivers against RUG.

Against Shardless BUG I sided in 7 cards (4 Leyline of the Void, 2 Blood Moon, 1 Tuktuk Scrapper). I'm trying to remember what I sided out for them. I think I took out 3 Piledrivers (its always nice to leave 1 in), 1 land, 1 MWM, 1 gempalm,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sockosensei

Sorry, I should have specified -- what do you take out to make space? I find that aspect more difficult with this deck than with others because of not wanting to hurt the goblin synergy.

About Esper equipment, I was proud to have won a long drawn out game 1 vs Esper Stoneblade in which he got both Batterskull and Jitte online. My prime top decking skills pulled a timely Ringleader into 4 goblins, including Chieftain. Teamed with an active Krenko it was enough to overwhelm those poor equipped Lingering Souls.:laugh:

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Against RUG
-2 Piledriver, +2 Blood Moon

Against Shardless BUG
-3 Piledriver, -1 MWM, -1 Mountain, -1 Gempalm, -1 SGC
+ 4 Leyline of the Void, 2 Blood Moon, 1 Tuktuk Scrapper

It was something like that. I won all three of the games I played against BUG. Leyline showed up one game and stalled them a bit, but it was landing a Blood Moon that really won the games for me.

Ah, forum posting via smartphone: Such a pain in the ass.

Have to be honest here, I'm not really sure Blood Moon is what you should be looking for vs RUG. Even if you by some strange circumstance resolve a three mana enchantment, they can still burn you out, cast relevant removal spells like Lightning Bolt, Rough//Tumble etc and just do you in with the bigger creatures that they have already resolved. On top of all that, if you do resolve a Blood Moon you lose access to your non-basic lands which are at their very best in this particular matchup (Cavern of Souls and Wasteland).

From my experience good cards against them after sideboarding come down to: Chalice of the Void, Relic of Progenitus, Boartusk Liege.

Chalice is probably better left for games in which you are on the play, but even then it might not be as effective if they see it coming. Relic is there to manage Goyfs and other ground pounders. Boartusk Liege is an option if you know them to be on Rough//Tumble. Unlike other lords it doesn't die to Lightning Bolt which is it's best merit by far.

I found that the Thalia list with Rishadan Ports was failing to contain other Legacy decks; Deathrites, Hierarchs just keep their mana flowing. I tried the Winstigator list with Chrome Moxes and lo and behold I am now hearing the phrase "If only I had one more turn / mana!"
The extra speed from moxes, with chalice/thorn/traps in SB to slow them down when necessary, plus wastelands with the vials, seems to have tipped results back in my favour.

4 Vial
4 Lackey
3 Tarfire
3 MWM
2 Piledriver
2 Instigator ( 3rd could replace Krenko )
2 Stingscourger
3 Gempalm
4 Chieftain
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
1 Krenko
2 SGC

2 Chrome Mox
4 Caverns
4 Wastelands
12 Mountains

SB

3 Pyrokenisis
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Chalice
3 Mindbreak Traps
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Boartusk Liege ( E.Plagues and abrupt decays are common in my meta )

Not such a mid range deck, but back to aggro!!! Way to go and drop the Ports and Sharpshooter. Krenkotastic!