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I have been following but not commenting as of late. Is someone suggesting you need 2 colorless mana to actually cast new kozilek through omni? If so that is incorrct. You definitely don't need colorless mana to cast through omni. As for the repeal suggestion if you want to bounce anything with over 0 cmc you need to have mana to do so. Repealing a candel will result in 1U having to be paid. You cannot use omni to repeal a candel.
doesn't work on xmage... so i assumed it was correct :confused: so i can play the new kozi with omni? can someone rule on this? I found this as well:Quote:
Originally Posted by Neko448
107.4c The colorless mana symbol {C} is used to represent one colorless mana, and also to represent a cost that can be paid only with one colorless mana
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ics-2015-12-28Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...verseid=288937Quote:
To cast Spatial Contortion, you pay two mana: one generic (that's the {1}) and one colorless (that's the {C}). The generic mana cost can be paid with any type of mana—that means any color or colorless. But the {C} is different. That can be paid only with colorless mana. There have been plenty of nonbasic lands over the years that produced colorless mana. This set gives you a more... ubiquitous way of doing it.
So, in other words, {C} represents a cost that can be paid only with one colorless mana. Kozilek, the Great Distortion has two such mana symbols in its casting cost. Omniscience allows you to cast spells from your hand without paying their mana costs.Quote:
You may cast spells from your hand without paying their mana costs.
I'm honestly not sure if you're trolling? I feel like this thread had this conversation when the card was first spoiled :eyebrow:.
CC is part of the mana cost but Omni allows you to cast without paying the mana cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical
A situation that you might be thinking of is cost reduction. Something like Heartless Summoning for example reduces casting cost by 1. Even if you have the cost reduction effect stacking up to 10 times to make spells cost 10 generic mana less, CC would still have to be paid for Kozilek.
Dudes i wasn't trolling. xmage asked me to pay additional CC with omni on the board. I assumed it was correct and just switched for the old kozilek without making any further inquiries. I should have known not to trust xmage on all the rulings. Another bug concerning empirion and STP prevents me from properly testing it online (i don't gain life from STP, which i should, right?). Thanks for the feedback. I guess i have to report this bug and hopefully will be able to properly test the new kozilek in the near future.
Colorless mana is still just mana, its nothing fancy. Xmage has a bug. Swords to Plowshares would only gain you life if you exile your own creature. If it isn't doing that, then it's a bug as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical
If platinum emperion getting hit by swords to Plowshares doesn't gain it's controller life that is definitely a bug. If it said it's controller gains life then removes the creature that would be a different story.
Has anyone played against turbo depths and/or B/R reanimator? Curious to hear what the match ups are like.
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Crop rotation and grafdiggers cage are great. Surgical helps vs BR reanimator a lot.
Turbo Depths is a bit sketchy at times. Using candelabra with Karakas or Maze of ith is generally good enough to beat them. Pithing Needle is very overloaded in this match up. I usually would name thespians stage first then hexmage. Stage first since they have a lot of ways to assemble stage/depths and have to have hexmage for that route to work.
I have a good friend that plays Turbo Depths in paper. Honestly, it depends on your build. If you can stabilize past the first 20/20, you're in good shape. I have had a game where he beat me to death with vampire hexmage(s) after I dealt with 4 marit leiges. Surgical extraction / Crop Rotation x4 is the way to win. Just be mindful sometimes they will just get'cha. You have to play the roll of control deck in this matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saab93
B/R Reanimator feels like an awful matchup; possibly the new worst matchup. If they don't know your on Post and go turn 1 ritual -> entomb -> sire -> reanimate; just concede without giving them any information and move to SB games. Rest In Peace / Surgical / Bojuka Bog is the only glimmer of hope. They can also turn 1 bloodmoon, so you also need some enchantment removal. Remember they are very all in, so if you can disrupt their combo; you'll have time to build the end game. Tidespout Tyrannt is the worst card out of the deck; followed by Sire of Insanity.
Repeal wins against depths decks. Trickbind adds a nice edge against depths as well. The only real play turbo depths has against you is a well timedQuote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Not of this World on your repeal and chalice post board.
With the omni lists i'm currently testing i feel comfortable playing against reanimation in general. With crop and force i often get away with a g1 win. it's also easier to play snt against them because u can beat their put in (most likely griselbrand) with an "omni hand". Post board i recommend Swan song, because it beats Animate Dead, blood moon and sneak attack in addition to their other reanimate spells. floating a swan song with top is great against BR.
i completely agree with maCHOOga: Tidespout Tyrannt is the worst card out of the deck
Maybe blazing archon is another threat you have to count on. if you can't get your titan triggers going you can easily lose the game... The only real solutions are ulamog and repeal. Top is great for beating Sire. If they can't follow up on sire u can stick in the game supprisingly long droping glimmers, chasms and more. a revealed Chancellor of the Annex can be solved with force and surgical + fluster post board. if i don't have an answer in hand i tend to play into Chancellor ASAP (something like eot repeal on lotus, i even "discarded" brainstorms).
Hi i test mono green ramp... Main deck 4 cloudpost 4 glimmerpost 4 vesuva 8 forest 1 bojuka borg 1 karakas 1 tabernacle 1 thespian stage 3 maze of ith 1 eye of ugin 4 candelabra 1 crucible 4 expedition map 2 sensei top 1 emrakul old 1 kozilek new 2 ulamog new 4 exploration 3 crop rotation 3 all is dust 4 ancient stirrings 3 explore...side 3 pithing needle 1 ratchet bomb 2 thorn of amethyst 4 mindbreak Trap 2 surgical extraction 3 krosan grip....what do you think? Tips
Your formatting is bad, and you should feel bad. [emoji58]Quote:
Originally Posted by caprino
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How essential is it to play Candelabra? My meta is infested with Miracles and I was considering building 12 Post but just can't justify the cost of Candelabras. Is page 1 of the thread fairly up to date in regards to the core of the deck? I feel like Crop Rotation would be fantastic and I'd want to play it, same with Show and Tell (if you're playing SnT do you really miss Candelabra?). It's just a bit hard to get a feel for what a current deck would look like since I don't think it sees a ton of play (especially in my meta).
Looking at some lists on tcdecks and I have a few questions :
- Why Trickbind in the main ? I don't get what it's there for ? (Wasteland ?)
- There seems to be very few Ugins in recent lists (0-1). At first view it seems incredibly powerful, able to come down a good turn earlier than an Eldrazi and completely wiping the enemy's board, thus buying you several turns of peace
- What is the reasoning about SDT ? It feels a bit like "we have too much mana in turns 2-3 but still not enough to actually cast something so might as well do some spinning"
- Khalni Garden ?
- I sometimes see a single Oracle of Mul Daya (with or without a way to tutor for it). I understand the potential use of the card (esp with SDT), but why as a singleton ? If it's worth playing, don't you want at least two to have a reasonable chance to see it ?
-trickbind has so many uses. just some that come to mind: wasteland, ghost quarter, storm triggers, miracle triggers, planeswalker - triggers lili, jace, tezzeret, emrakul, can save a land from chasm, can prolong chasm, enemy fetch lands (if u feel u can mana screw them), delver (especially if they set it up), can give u extra time against depths, animate dead, batterskull, thought-knot, knight of the reliquary, can push a spell through chalice of the void, etc. etc. you can "stifle" all sorts of nasty s***. Great all-around card, very good against combo decks. Float one of these puppies on top of your library with a top against storm and u'll soon change your mind. there are a lot of comprehensive posts about trickbind use on this thread...Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkerLewis
-ugin can be great, but it has some issues. It can be difficult to resolve, can't be fetched with eye, its almost useless against C decks like eldrazi, it doesn't play with SnT, does little or nothing against most combo decks...
-SDT is the quintessential piece of this deck. Probably the best t1 plays. Its the card that makes this deck consistent. Having access to the top of your library is awesome. use it to smooth out your draws. We have many "dead" cards we don't want to draw. It ensures you hit your land drops, which is key. with shuffle effects you can see A LOT of cards. With repeal you can dig for answers real deep by utilising the old look, draw, repeal play (one of my favourite plays). Don't 4get that multiple tops are also useful. Against combo (like storm, reanimator, ...) you can float an answer (like crop, counter, trickbind, surgical) on top of your library. Note that we don't have too much mana in t2-3!
-never played much with garden. it's good again lili, but i'm guessing it doesn't merit play in the current meta
-never played oracle
unfortunately there is no easy (or cheap) answer to that question. when i started building post i didn't plan on buying one as well. However i soon got my single candelabra. Since then my builds usually include a trinket mage as a "substitute" for the second candle. Now i'm thinking of getting another :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch253
Lately i have been fooling around with an omni build running FoW main and 0 candles 2 keep my blue count up, but i'm not sure i want to take this build to a live event. Note that crop rotation is bad against miracles, i usually board them out...
I think that Rock Lee posted several budget builds some pages ago, maybe check those?
Re: trickbind, you've simply described the card. If that was reason enough to play it, then all blue decks would play it, yet almost no other deck does that. The only specific use you've mentioned is with Glacial Chasm, but surely that's not what makes it playable 4x MD when it's never the case in any other archetype. Sorry if it has been discussed before - that's the problem with threads hundreds of pages long, they're unsearchable (try searching for trickbind, you'll only get flooded by posts with decklists).
I would make the same comment about SDT. You're just telling me how useful a card SDT is in any deck. Well yeah, and still not every deck plays it, so if it is to be played, there must be an additional specific justification, and in a deck with ~27 lands (ok let's say 25-26 actual mana-producing lands), I'm not sure missing a land drop is exactly to be feared. I don't know, I feel like I'd rather be playing Ponder to get an additional shuffle effect.
Trickbind having split second is extra important to stop an opponent from wasting a post land. If you have stifle they are happy to counter it if you are getting hit with wasteland. If you have stifle over trickbind, chalice of the void shuts that down which is all the more reason to have trickbind at 2 cmc. Another great thing about trickbind is that it cantrips and replacing itself is important to gain tempo into the mid to late game where inevitability takes over in our favor.Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkerLewis
Sensei's Divining top plays a role similar to Miracles. We have a lot of cards great at times and terrible at times. Since we are a big mana deck, the 1 mana a turn isn't an issue to smooth out our draws and hit lands drop while not getting stranded on 2-3 mana with cards cmc 8 and up. Top is also great against combo where we can potentially hide the hate card we need and have access to it at instant speed, something ponder sucks at.
Basically everything the previous guy said, with more back story. I am not sure why there was any confusion, but I hope this helps to clarify more for you.
EDIT: And if the reasons to run these cards aren't good enough for you, you can feel free to not play them. Although there is a pretty obvious reason most of us run cards like Top and Trickbind. You don't have to trust our judgement.
My question is not about Trickbind over Stifle :) It's "why does this deck need a Stifle effect so much more than any other blue decks out there, to the point that it plays 4x MD while other blue decks play 0" ? Maybe the current reasoning is simply "the deck is so bad against Wasteland it desperately needs to prevent it, even with the possibility of playing Crop in response", or maybe not, anyway that's what I want to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
What ? How does Trickbind cantrip ?Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
That's more along my question / point. Yet with 25-26 mana producing lands, plus brainstorms, the probability of getting stranded at 2-3 mana feels really low (to be checked for actual numbers). Also, if the argument is that the deck has quite a bit of situational cards, then that's more of an argument for Ponder for the built-in shuffle effect. It might depend on whether you're playing Expedition Map, if you play it, total shuffle effects might be enough that it's not an issue anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
Well, against combo, isn't your goal to have your hate card in your opening hand ? At which point this advantage is nil. So yes, this is an advantage of SDT, but it's more limited than what the sentence may imply. Also this point is completely independant of the deck : we can make 10 sentences saying how SDT is a good card in Legacy, and still, a lot of decks don't play SDT. So obviously that's not reason enough for its inclusion. (the first argument goes in the right direction though)Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
Well, I know. But I can also recognize I've just picked up playtesting the deck, so it's only natural to ask, and that's what I am doing. I'm more than open to being convinced if the arguments are standing.Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
Play the deck and you will see that the "card description" fits our game plan. The "classic" UG ver. runs 25 lands. 2 lands don't produce mana (one even sacks another land), 2 lands don't produce our colours, 6-7 lands come in tapped, don't think that making the right land drops isn't important... when you will play the deck you'll see that making the right land drops is huge with this deck. And yeah, feel free to run any card :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkerLewis