[Deck] The Rock

I'm still keeping the classic GSZ I have to work on, but I want to try the "tempo" build again and see if it has more game.

As for Bob vs. SFM, I feel like it's more Confidant vs. Hymn. Do I play something on Turn 2 that potentially cripples my opponent/makes them discard a TNN, or do I run something that will draw me some cards? I think in this build, it's discard to clear TNN/removal for eventual SFM drop into Batterskull.

i don't have tons of insight beyond speculation at the moment since I lack the testing with the list, so we'll see how it goes. It works just perfectly since I just got my set of Steinschmelz-Mystiker in the mail today :P

-Matt

How do you feel about Mox Diamond? I've been lacking the will power to do testing (yay job) but being able to power out a turn 1 Hymn is brutal. It also opens up the possibility of a Chalice package from the board.

I imagine it would compete with DRS, so we get to get back on that debate, but in a Punishing Fire heavy meta it could be worth considering.

before DRS was printed pretty much everyone used mox diamonds in the tempo-builds, and yes 1st turn hymn was an awesome play at that time

the downsides of mox were acceptable for such plays, but i think that DRS is way better in this slot, because compared to mox it is not a dead draw later in the game, mox is only effective if in opening with a devastating 2cmc spell/creature (mostly hymn), DRS is effective hate against a lot of decks, and is more consistent than mox could ever be

i think the idea of mox diamond is still very viable, but it requires the deck to be built accordingly,... hymn would be a must, also liliana of the veil as a 3-off because at least you can get value out of lategame mox diamonds with her +1 ability

basically the whole list would be 2CMC-centric but vindicate becomes more viable as manadenial-strategy together with hymn and knight,... in fact the whole gameplan would change a lot i think, but IMO it would be very viable at the moment.
you get a lot more speed out of the deck, the gameplan would become more streamlined (discard, removal, into big threats like goyf and knight), but you would lose a lot of flexibility like DRS, GSZ (depending on the list also SFM)

the biggest problem that you could face is probably TNN, because it could foil your aggressive gameplan by stalling the board, and without DRS you have no way to deal damage outside of combat

Could someone post a "tempo" build of this deck? Doesn't have to be up to date with the current metagame, just something that demonstrates the tempo aspect.

Edit: NVM just saw matt's build on the previous page.

if you want it even more explosive than matts list, there should be a "Dark Horizon-List" on the first page of this thread (which is using mox diamonds)

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Originally Posted by AggroSteve

if you want it even more explosive than matts list, there should be a "Dark Horizon-List" on the first page of this thread (which is using mox diamonds)

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That's right. That primer needs an update, and I'll get around to it when I can.

So I tried my regular list at the local last night and should have 4-0'd on the matchups, but I kept some loose keeps.

The list was:

3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Dark Confidant
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Deathrite Shaman
16

4 Thoughtseize
1 Sword of FaI
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Sylvan Library
4 Abrupt Decay
3 STP
2 Green Sun's Zenith
20

3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
2 Savannah
2 Forest (for perfect mana ratios, 1 Forest should be another Bayou)
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
23

BOARD:

3 Thalia
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Golgari Charm
2 Engineered Plague
3 Cabal Therapy
1 SFM
1 SoLaS
1 Scavenging Ooze

Round 1 was against ANT, and I did well here.

Round 2 was against ANT again, but I lost when on my turn I went: Liliana +1, cast new Liliana and +1 her, then cast my last card, Cabal Therapy, naming Infernal tutor to his 2 cards in hand. He reveals Cabal Ritual and LED. He rips...Infernal Tutor to win. Sigh. This should have been a win, of course.

Round 3 was against Sneak and Show. He gets a Turn 1 Show and Tell into Sneak attack with no fatty, but I put Bob into play and draw into Knight. lay Knight down, then SFM for Batterskull. I put him in a race scenario, and he never gets two guys/a Griselbrand to get around my Karakas.

Game 2 I start with a double discard hand and a Qasali, and decide it's fine. He drops double Leyline. Shit. I go into Qasali and start racing. He hardcasts Sneak and I blow it up. I land Goyf and the race is on. I get blood Mooned too late.

Round 4 was against Enchantress, and suffice to say, I hate cutting Deed from my metagame because of this. He gets very lucky and naturally draws the RIP/Helm combo in games 1 and 2 and there's nothing I can do when he has Sterling Grove out on top of it all, both times. Oh well.

-Matt

Is lingering souls worth playing again maybe as a two of? It flies over tnn and discards to lili and holds equipment like a boss I'm aware golgari charm is at an all time high but the decks I'd want souls against aren't going to be running it. I'll edit with my list or post again if it takes me a while to get home to my cards. I'm torn between this and maverick for starcity Baltimore at the end of the month.

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Originally Posted by uncletiggy

Is lingering souls worth playing again maybe as a two of? It flies over tnn and discards to lili and holds equipment like a boss I'm aware golgari charm is at an all time high but the decks I'd want souls against aren't going to be running it. I'll edit with my list or post again if it takes me a while to get home to my cards. I'm torn between this and maverick for starcity Baltimore at the end of the month.

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It depends which matchup you REALLY want it for. I was playing the card and I liked it, and now with equipment, it might be a better option in the board.

Prior to TNN, I loved the card as a 2-of against many decks. With TNN, it's not quite as good, but carrying a Sword is better than nothing. I'm just not sure if we have enough to cut for all the cards we want to bring in.

-Matt

I ask because as of right now this is my list for scg baltimore:

4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Tidehollow sculler
2 Lingering souls
17

3 Thoughtseize
2 cabal therapy
2 Hymm to Tourach
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari charm
17

1 Sylvan Library
1 Sensei's divining top
2

1 Sword of FaI
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2

1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Dark Depth's
1 Thespian Stage
1 Horizon canopy
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
22

Side board:

2 Thalia
1 Ethersworn canonist
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Golgari Charm
1 Engineered Plague
1 Oblivion ring
2 Rest in peace
2 Choke
1 Life from the Loam
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse

I'm just wondering if lingering souls might be better as 2 GSZ and finding room for a dryad arbor? Not sure if I'll get enough testing in to make a statistical decision so a crowd source answer might have to do. I've never played junk at an open only maverick or elves and would like to play some control.


Edit- I forgot to mention I'd really like to see 1 Batterskull and 1 more Cabal Therapy make the 75 so any thoughts?

I'm working on putting this deck together, but Stoneforge just shot up. Is it worth buying them at this time? Will they continue to go up in price with the success of delver/stoneforge/TNN decks?

Goblins VS Junk

http://youtu.be/YIAaP717NCY

Hello it's been awhile and I haven't regularly check every post here at The Rock anyways I made a split with esper deathblade in the finals because of time constraints, 29-30 players I think. Here's my quick decklist
1 Thrun the last troll
2 Knight of the reliquary
3 Loxodon smiter
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark confidant
4 Deathrite shaman

2 Hymn to tourach
2 Maelstrom pulse
4 Thoughtseize

3 Abrupt decay
4 Swords to plowshares
4 Liliana of the veil

1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Maze of ith
1 Windswept heath
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
3 Bayou
3 Wasteland
4 Verdant catacombs
4 Marsh flats

SB
3 Surgical extraction
2 Thalia guardian of thraben
1 Gaddock teeg
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Choke
2 Golgari charm
2 Oblivion ring
1 Krosan grip
1 Hymn to tourach

R1 vs affinity: 2-0, thanks to my removals and multiple liliana for her -2 ability
R2 vs mono blue omnitell: 2-1, first game he combo'ed out while in the 2nd turn 1 seize, turn 2 hymn, turn 3 goyf, turn 4 liliana and it's game and 3rd game good timing for my discards and surgical his omni
R3 vs BGR elves-ruric thar: 0-2, he combo'ed fast enough to kill me
R4 vs MUD: 2-0, thanks again to my removals and wasteland to slow him down
R5 vs TES: draw

Landed 5th, then play-offs
R1 vs MUD: 2-0, super thanks to my removals I always check his creatures
R2 vs BGR elves-ruric thar: 2-0, game 1 hymn hits hard I think I managed to strip his heritage and slow him down while in game 2 golgari charm wins.
Finals vs esper deathblade: split prize due to time constraints.

Thanks!

I shall write a report from my most recent tournament finish from this past weekend. Didn't do super great, but I got to try out the new changes to the deck.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryn ball_2

Hello it's been awhile and I haven't regularly check every post here at The Rock anyways I made a split with esper deathblade in the finals because of time constraints, 29-30 players I think. Here's my quick decklist
1 Thrun the last troll
2 Knight of the reliquary
3 Loxodon smiter
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark confidant
4 Deathrite shaman

2 Hymn to tourach
2 Maelstrom pulse
4 Thoughtseize

3 Abrupt decay
4 Swords to plowshares
4 Liliana of the veil

1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Maze of ith
1 Windswept heath
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
3 Bayou
3 Wasteland
4 Verdant catacombs
4 Marsh flats

SB
3 Surgical extraction
2 Thalia guardian of thraben
1 Gaddock teeg
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Choke
2 Golgari charm
2 Oblivion ring
1 Krosan grip
1 Hymn to tourach

R1 vs affinity: 2-0, thanks to my removals and multiple liliana for her -2 ability
R2 vs mono blue omnitell: 2-1, first game he combo'ed out while in the 2nd turn 1 seize, turn 2 hymn, turn 3 goyf, turn 4 liliana and it's game and 3rd game good timing for my discards and surgical his omni
R3 vs BGR elves-ruric thar: 0-2, he combo'ed fast enough to kill me
R4 vs MUD: 2-0, thanks again to my removals and wasteland to slow him down
R5 vs TES: draw

Landed 5th, then play-offs
R1 vs MUD: 2-0, super thanks to my removals I always check his creatures
R2 vs BGR elves-ruric thar: 2-0, game 1 hymn hits hard I think I managed to strip his heritage and slow him down while in game 2 golgari charm wins.
Finals vs esper deathblade: split prize due to time constraints.

Thanks!

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I like your list. Would you make any changes to it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by litenkatt

I like your list. Would you make any changes to it?

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Thanks!, hmmm nothing at the moment I love how my list works esp. the 3 smiter/2 KOTR split during a playtest vs UWR, BUG I just land my Smiter and if they have no removal spells to it then it is really problematic. Thinking about replace my KOTRs and some spells by SFM package but at the moment I'm not sold to it still many games KOTR brings me victory.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryn ball_2

Thanks!, hmmm nothing at the moment I love how my list works esp. the 3 smiter/2 KOTR split during a playtest vs UWR, BUG I just land my Smiter and if they have no removal spells to it then it is really problematic. Thinking about replace my KOTRs and some spells by SFM package but at the moment I'm not sold to it still many games KOTR brings me victory.

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I love Smiter more than many things in real life, but the problem I found was that when TNN came around, he was a 4/4 do nothing. The Equipment, with the current state of the metagame, allows you to gain a ton of advantage against TNN itself.

But, Smiter is better against the Delver builds as well as BUG and Jund. It's ridiculously good against them.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

I love Smiter more than many things in real life, but the problem I found was that when TNN came around, he was a 4/4 do nothing. The Equipment, with the current state of the metagame, allows you to gain a ton of advantage against TNN itself.

But, Smiter is better against the Delver builds as well as BUG and Jund. It's ridiculously good against them.

-Matt

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True, I haven't playtest in grindy mode vs TNN decks but if sneak attack goes away and many people in my country will play most TNN decks I will drop my KOTRs and be replace by sfm package. What do you think guys about the 3/1 labyrinth in the born of the gods? It is a good card!

It's definitely good, but I don't agree it is GREAT, for the following reasons:

1) It's good because it's a 3/1 for 2. Already, that's nice.

2) Being a 3/1, it dies to all the -1/-1 effects in the format because of TNN :(

3) They can Brainstorm in response to this card. The blowout would really only come with Vial in response to a Brainstorm.

4) It means we can't run Sylvan Library.

5) I'm not sure it does ENOUGH to punish certain decks. This obviously destroys Griselbrand, Enter the Infinite, and the other choice cards where you draw many of them, but is turning off Brainstorm enough? Maybe.

I honestly think this hatebear is decent, but not the end of the world for blue. I think it would be better suited in a deck with 4 Dark Confidant to really bust the ability of not drawing extra cards. A sample list:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Stoneforge Mystic

4 Aether Vial
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Vindicate
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Lingering Souls
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Basically just maximizing the fact that you're drawing extra cards and they're not.

-Matt

Hello guys. Aether Vial with only 16 creatures feels a bit weak. Tidehollow Sculler would be a nice addition as a 2-3 off. Maybe removing Lingering Souls or Vindicate from that list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stuuch

Hello guys. Aether Vial with only 16 creatures feels a bit weak. Tidehollow Sculler would be a nice addition as a 2-3 off. Maybe removing Lingering Souls or Vindicate from that list.

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You're very likely correct. I'm not saying it's tuned, I'm just throwing up a rough outline of what's very likely the better deck to abuse the Spirit.

-Matt