Dang I was hoping to see Storm in the top 8 its been to long. :/ Will you be posting the new list soon? Did you also play in the standard open?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
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Dang I was hoping to see Storm in the top 8 its been to long. :/ Will you be posting the new list soon? Did you also play in the standard open?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
The list is on one of the previous 2-3 pagesQuote:
Originally Posted by culby218
I've been away from Magic for about 4 months, but I'm getting back into testing Storm. How is the new version of this deck not just TNT? You've cut all the gold lands and silences and added fetches and even a basic. This now looks super similar to Burning Wish ANT but with Rite of Flames and a weaker manabase. I'm just confused as to why this deck is still considered "TES." I guess the question is: what defines this deck? Rite of Flame? This is exactly the direction I thought this deck should go about 6 months ago, but it still seems like it might be trying too hard to play the old TES game in an ANT shell. At least it still has a better Ad Nauseam plan than ANT, but I guess we need to weigh the pros and cons of Chrome Mox with having a better Ad Nauseam. I hated Chrome Mox when I played this deck tdh; it definitely felt like the worst card in the deck.
Funny as I just talked on Twitter about this. TES is defined by it's multicolor core (the reason I refuse to run Basics in here), Rite of Flame and Burning Wish for the ability to cast the whole manaacceleration off a maximum of 2 IMS which is possible by turn 1 and Empty the Warrens as this storm iterations unique angle of attack to Blitz unprepared opponents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
TNT played Cabal Ritual + Burning Wish which is a conceptional mistake as the deck was never (reliable) able to produce RR for an EtW playline or PIF loop from the SB.
I'm very curious on how ANT with it's Cabal Rituals and PIF will react to the upcoming flurry of graveyard-hate as a result of Treasure Cruise hitting the metagame hard
TNT dates from before Past in Flames.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Ad Nauseam was the focus.
No conceptional mistakes there, just outdated design.
Running a heavy Wishboard, without supporting feature playlines indicated by SB ETW, Shattering Spree and stuff, isQuote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
I think the only conflict, at the time, was with sb EtW. If you're wishing for shattering spree against Chalice or what have you, I don't think Rite of Flame is what you want at all, you're more likely just Wishing and passing at that point. As for EtW, lack of Rite is irksome, but there are still 8 mana rocks to help you get there. In a more modern build with Rite, PiF is still pretty awkward. You'd need 3 red, 1 for Wish, 1 for PiF and then 1 for the Rites you're playing, pretty much requiring double Rite or a mana rock (and the whole point of Rite would be to reduce reliance on mana rocks), while with no Rites you need double red but it's awkward to get. To curb this, the original build used Ill-Gotten Gains; since that's far from viable these days, maybe the answer for those interested in TNT would be to main a PiF, but side Treasure Cruise as a pseudo-storm-engine for comboing off instead. Ofc, draw 3 isn't exactly the most precise way of going off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
To be honest, I don't really care what the deck looks like as long as it provides wins. Peter R. (Lemnear) and I were discussing this on Facebook around six months ago, we're going to play whatever will get us the farthest in an event. Right now, that's a mixture of classic TES and ANT that results in a psuedo hybrid that looks like the former TNT but is still focused on ETW beatdown synergies with Therapies and Ad Nauseam.
Don't be rediculous. They tried all options, from 0x Empty the Warrens to a full set of four in the board. The latter killed my Bant list at some point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Anyone who is trying the list with basics: have you run into any color issues?
'Quote:
Originally Posted by itrytostorm
You can always swap them out for gemstones or a split of 1 basic 1 gemstone, was playing a similar manabase for a bit in testing a bit ago: 2 gemstones, 3 underground seas, 2 volcanics, 6 fetches. It felt fine, depends on if you care about wasteland or not. I think Island is better than Swamp if you want to run a single basic though.
I was very excited to survive Wasteland, until I couldn't attempt a turn 1 kill because I only have an Island as land in hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by itrytostorm
I'm still unsure how I'll fix this, but surely I'll remove the two basic before my next tournament. Since we did cut green I doubt the Mines are necessary, but hey, I'll wait until the great minds of TES have the same problem as I did, and probably copy their solution.
I've played the two basics in multiple events now, they've been terrific. Fetch them when appropriate, take chances on duals if necessary - don't fetch for basic island if you're going to need RB on the next turn. It's not rocket science.
The Mines are even unnecessary if you run the green Splash for Decays in the SB, regardless if you run the Tropical in the MB (as the 13th land) or in the SB (as the 14th land). As mentioned at some point before and Praque Eternal & Ovinogeddon giving proof, the Penetration of Miracles in Europe is what keeps me playing Decay as it is the only card saving your ass if Counterbalance hits the battlefield.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDX
If you enounter the frustrating scenario of opening hands with a basic as the only land but an undesirable combination of other cards (swamp + cantrips; Island + Dark Ritual + Burning Wish), ask yourself if the ability to blank Blood Moon/Wasteland is such an important factor in your metagame or if you can afford to trade a Dual or two with Wasteland with all your cantrips and 13-14 lands (postboard) for the benefit of running Fetch/Duals only and being able to support 3 colors with 2 IMS.
For the time being, I'm switching between Tropical MB and SB and a full 4 Decay in SB as my core boarding against Miracles taking out the three Moxen, 1 IT and/or 1 ETW (even boarding in PIF at times for value flashbacks on cantrips and Decays).
If the Desire to stick with the Basics remains, I would honestly think about running a Single Badlands among the 13 lands as the combination of both Basics plus the corresponding Dual (Island + Badlands, Swamp + Volcanic) would make it possible to support 3 colors with 2 IMS.
Edit:
Dear Hive Mind,
I really care for constant Feedback about how the SB serves you. Are you still fine with me stripping you from Xantids and adding Needle? Like the Pyroblasts? See the need for Extirpate-Effects to return? I miss U.
Greetings,
Peter
Edit 2:
Writing all this was a pain as I can only write left-handed atm :(
I'd like to add a third Needle to the sideboard with Miralces becoming more and more popular along with additional splash hate for Reanimator/SneakShow, some thoughts I'm having:
Sideboard
1 Tropical Island
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Pithing Needle
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Void Snare
1 Thoughtseize
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames
1.) Cutting a Chain of Vapor, this places a higher reliance on Abrupt Decay and against Death & Taxes could be a liability with only a single Green source. Makes us lean on Massacre more.
2.) Cutting the sideboard discard spell, how often do we even use it? I don't use it too often.
3.) Shoving the Infernal back into the main deck over the third Duress, if we do this it creates the needed slot but Wish is now slightly weaker.
4.) Moving the Tropical to the maindeck over the 7th fetch. I dislike this because hands of Tropical/Island or Tropical/Volcanic could be awkward, even on thirteen lands.
5.) Keeping the SB the way it is.
I'm leaning toward option one was Death & Taxes popularity has waned. The sideboarding would change to -3 Duress, +1 Chain, +1 Void Snare, +1 Thoughtseize and possibly siding in the three Decay/Tropical over Ponders depending on if you're on the play or draw.
I have been dooing fine without chains and with massacre only for taxes, Is another thing if we speak of burn. But i have not removed the xantids.
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
3 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Rite of Flame
4 Dark Ritual
3 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ad Nauseam
Sideboard
1 Tropical Island
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Pithing Needle
1 Void Snare
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames
Talking to a few friends on FB, we came up with this list. A second green source allows us to cut Chain allowing room for Xantids again. I'm sad that I lost the basic swamp, but I think the only other way to add it back in is to cut the 7th fetch. What are the thoughts on two non-blue lands (Keep cantripping in mind)? I haven't been happy with the sideboard discard spell and don't mind seeing it gone.
Some thoughts:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
*How has your experience with basics been? I don't really like Swamp, as it can't cast cantrips; Island is also pretty unappealing because you can't play either of your business colors. Is the benefit of dodging Wasteland worth having such suboptimal mana source, especially when you can board up to 14 lands?
*I've really liked having Tropical and Bayou in storm configs where I play Xantid Swarm, since sometimes you need the business or the cantrip color. Very happy to see that.
*No sb discard seems alright, there are probably cases where I might miss it. One thing that sounds interesting is that in control matches where you'd be bringing in land/Decay/Needle, you can move a Therapy over to the side and wish for it, which seems good.
*Between Goblin bursts and being able to wish for Snare/Massacre, I think we'd be ok against hatebear stuffs, especially with 2 green sources on the draw for abrupt decays. Really, the only thing I'd be on the fence about here is basics.
If we're not running Basic Island, it's probably worth moving the Tropical to the main deck to create another sideboard slot. I'm going to keep the Island for now as I've really liked the basics, I'm going to test the Swamp over the 7th fetch to see how bad it really is - It'll likely be cut.
You guys are aware that running the heavy green board, 2 green lands and basic(s) is kinda absurd now AFTER we cut Gemstone Mines? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderPreaux
That sideboard and gameplan (Decay vs D&T ... Was horrible with 12 lands and even with 14 postboard 1BG against Thalia/Wasteland is a bitch. Mother of Runes on top of that) requires the rollback to 5 Fetches/2 U.Sea/2 Volcanic/4 Gemstone imo considering that, depending on the Swamps return in place of the 7th fetch, you have 4 iffy lands for your starting grip to contain. I doubt this is acceptable. As D&T is cooling down atm and people began to cut down stifles and Wastelands for the Treasure Cruises, I'm not convinced a second green land is required. I can see the beauty of Bayou providing a combo-color unlike Tropical Island, but I have not made up my mind which one I would prefer in the end. I will test 2 U.Sea/2. Volcanic/1 Bayou/1 Tropical MB with 4 Decay in the Sideboard over the weekend and see how it goes.