Thank you! I'm very excited to join in, my good result is probably related to my newness, since looking at scryfall for hours trying to find stuff is still appealing to me :DQuote:
Originally Posted by silkster
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Thank you! I'm very excited to join in, my good result is probably related to my newness, since looking at scryfall for hours trying to find stuff is still appealing to me :DQuote:
Originally Posted by silkster
I mean, I had Honor Guard/Hushbringer on my list in the first few weeks (with Phyrexian Dreadnaught), and I keep trying to make one of the Hunted Creatures work with something but I still missed both the combo and how well Honor Guard would shut down opposing decks. It's about having an eye for what types of cards are relevant. At least, that's what I keep telling myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasst
I would second that, and also say that you are pretty good at calculating the MUs (and yes Asthereal beats me 4-1), also you understood/wrote about Silk & my MU much better than either of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by silkster
I might not have a different philosophy in general, but here I had such a - to my taste - beautiful deck. I can disclaim it as using it is gone:Quote:
Originally Posted by silkster
Tundra, Magosi, the Waterveil, beloved chaplain, meddling mage
It would have scored something like 54 this round, and I really enjoy this kind of decks, that exploits the infinite turns of 4CB :)
I stupidly did not play it by getting scared of a vampire that cannot be blocked by humans, and did not see any play :/
I also had one with the angel, but do not mind it being gone.
Asthereal's results for round 11:
1. Asthereal (TO): Dwarven Ruins, Fanatical Firebrand, Fanatical Firebrand, Gargadon <- me
2. dte: Stomping Ground, Llanowar mentor, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Kris mage WD
OTP I have time to drop Firebrands one by one. OTD you drop your 1/1s asap, which forces me to sac Ruins to cast both Firebrands at once and kill your guys for the draw.
(If OTD you go Mentor and wait, I'll have time to drop Firebrands one by one again, as you'll be left with a 1/1 but I'll get to keep Ruins to suspend Gargamel, so that would lose for you.)
3. Reeplcheep: Karakas, Azorius Chancery, Alirios, Enraptured, Inquisitive Puppet LL
I don't understand what Puppet does in your deck. But other than that, your deck makes a 3/2 every two turns, starting from turn 3. And I can't stop that.
You need two to stop Gargamel, three if I have two Firebrands in the table. You'll be able to get that before dying, if my math is right.
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furance, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk WL
Anti-Welder deck beats Welder deck. OTP, that is. OTD my tapped land looks a little silly.
5. Nasst: Tocatli Honor Guard, Hunted Horror, Goldmire Bridge, Swamp LL
I knew you have a knack for this as soon as I saw this deck. If I sac Ruins immediately to sus Gargamel, you trade it for Horror and keep an Honor Guard. If I don't I'm too slow and Horror kills me.
6. FTW: Havenwood Battleground, Copperline Gorge, Fanatical Firebrand, Anurid Scavenger LL
Recurring Firebrand is a smart one, but this iteration of Gargamel has trample, which might help. Math below unfortunately shows the suspend 4 is too slow.
7. PJim: Ancient Spring, Bazaar of Baghdad, Priest of Fell Rites, Serra's Emissary WD
OTP I'm fast enough to cast Firebrands one by one to kill your Priest before it can recur the big boy. OTD I have to sac Ruins to cast both Firebrands to kill Priest and we draw.
8. Wrath of Pie: Saprazzan Cove, Dust Bowl, Mind Flayer, Brazen Borrower LL
I make two Firebrands one by one, while you tick up your land. At some point you threaten to Dust Bowl my Ruins on your turn, so before that I have to suspend Gargamel. Which you will at some point steal. In response to my suspending Gargamel, you cast Borrower, which can race my guys, considering I am forced to allow you to steal my 7/5 trampler and have a 3/3 blocker as well, which happens just in time before my 1/1 hasty dudes kill you, if my math is right. Will check later.
9. RoosterCocoa: Blackcleave Cliffs, Molten Slagheap, Shadow Guildmage, Glorybringer WW
I actually race someone with Gargamel.
10. maxx!: Mother of Runes, Deathrite Shaman, Bloodhall Ooze, Ancient Ziggurat WW
Ooze can as fastest become bigger by your turn 3, after which I have a Firebrand to kill it. If you make Mother first, I will have two Firebrands before it grows, and will be able to kill it anyway. Gargamel has trample, so Mother can\'t stop it, and to 1/X guys can't race Gargamel either.
11. silkster: Ruins of Trokair, Gemstone Mine, Meddling Mage, Priest of the Blessed Graf WW
I can sac my land so you don't get too many guys. If you Mage my Firebrands, I just sus Gargamel and race your team. If you Mage Gargamel, I make two Firebrands and kill Mage before I sus Gargamel. Both lines win for me.
12. alphastryk: Icatian Store, Icatian Store, Windborn Muse, Windborn Muse LL
This matchup I consciously gave up.
Total: 29 points
Against FTW---doing nothing doesn't work with recurring Firebrand doing damage to my head. So two lines:
A: Ruins
F: Tapped land
-Line 1, going for Gargamel asap---A: Sus Gargamel
F: Land, 3/3
A: G=3
F: Put back land, draw it, cast Firebrand, attack (16)
A: G=2
F: Play land, sac Firebrand for damage and attack (12)
A: G=1
F: Draw Firebrand, cast it and sac it, attack (8)
A: G=0, Gargamel resolves, attack (13)
F: Draw Firebrand, cast it and sac it, attack (4)
A: Attack (6)
F: Draw Firebrand, cast it and sac it, attack (0)
-Line 2, casting Firebrands first---A: Firebrand, attack (19)
F: Land, 3/3
A: Firebrand number two, wait
F: Put back land, draw it, cast Firebrand, attack for 3, chump, sac on your head (18)
A: Sus Gargamel, EOT you sac Firebrand on my Firebrand, response I sac on your head (17)
F: Play land, put back Firebrand, draw it, cast it, sac it and attack (16)
A: G=3
F: Draw Firebrand, cast it and sac it, attack (12)
A: G=2
F: Draw Firebrand, cast it and sac it, attack (8)
A: G=1
F: Draw Firebrand, cast it and sac it, attack (4)
A: Gargamel resolves but I'll die here too.
I think I'm missing something. Isn't a 5/4 menace on turn 2 too fast when we're OTD?Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
LOL no you're not missing anything. I just forgot that my land enters tapped. :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasst
8. Wrath of Pie: Saprazzan Cove, Dust Bowl, Mind Flayer, Brazen Borrower
1. Asthereal (TO): Dwarven Ruins, Fanatical Firebrand, Fanatical Firebrand, Gargadon WW
2. dte: Stomping Ground, Llanowar mentor, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Kris mage LL - Kris Mage foils my steal Mentor plan.
3. Reeplcheep: Karakas, Azorius Chancery, Alirios, Enraptured, Inquisitive Puppet WL
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furance, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk WL - Dust Bowl and Brazen Borrower solve my Noxious Gearhulk problem nicely on the draw, but I'm way too slow on the play.
5. Nasst: Tocatli Honor Guard, Hunted Horror, Goldmire Bridge, Swamp LL - Guess I am the hunted after all.
6. FTW: Havenwood Battleground, Copperline Gorge, Fanatical Firebrand, Anurid Scavenger WL
7. PJim: Ancient Spring, Bazaar of Baghdad, Priest of Fell Rites, Serra's Emissary WL - I would have been too tempted by Grave Titan.
9. RoosterCocoa: Blackcleave Cliffs, Molten Slagheap, Shadow Guildmage, Glorybringer WW
10. maxx!: Mother of Runes, Deathrite Shaman, Bloodhall Ooze, Ancient Ziggurat LL - As long as pingers are around, Giver of Runes is probably better than the classic.
11. silkster: Ruins of Trokair, Gemstone Mine, Meddling Mage, Priest of the Blessed Graf LL
12. alphastryk: Icatian Store, Icatian Store, Windborn Muse, Windborn Muse WW
10w = 30 points
I resisted the temptation to play the slow Urza's Factory.
6. FTW: Havenwood Battleground, (Copperline Gorge banned) Mountain, Fanatical Firebrand, Anurid Scavenger
The deck I almost submitted last week, which would have scored >54 pts against all the Grists and X/1s! But the meta completely shifted this time. Bad timing.
1. Asthereal (TO): Firebrands trade. Because of your slow lands and suspend, I get in enough damage first that you can't race, while I can ping you to death if you stay back to block. WW 6-0
2. dte: Firebrand kills both your spellshapers, then mops up any tokens. WW 6-0
3. Reeplcheep: You can make a 3/2 on turn 3 and then every 2nd turn. But I get T2 Anurid and can also double ping every 2nd turn to kill an X/2 (Upkeep ping -> redraw -> main phase ping -> attack). I should be able to remove your 3/2s as fast as you can make them, then attack with 3/3. You can chump with 2/3 + bounce every 2nd turn only, so I should get damage through every other turn. WW 6-0?
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Firebrand stops Welder combo and the other X/1. WW 6-0
5. Nasst: Nice deck. I was hoping to play Hunted Horror in a later round, but you picked good timing! Your 7/7 trample is enough to beat through my pro-black and infinite Fanatic chumps. LL 0-6
7. PJim: Priest activates just fast enough to dodge my double ping. LL 0-6
8. Wrath of Pie: I can play around both Petty Theft and Dust Bowl by recurring Havenwood Battleground first. Your best line is T7 Mind Flayer, stealing my Scavenger (Petty Theft would cost 2 turns and I can replay it faster). I deal 4 damage turn 3, then 5 damage per turn by pinging with Firebrand on upkeep and attacking with haste. By turn 6 I've dealt 19 damage. OTD you'll get T7 Mind Flayer before Scavenger can deal lethal, but then Firebrand can ping for the last point of damage. If you try to stall with Petty Theft on Anurid during combat, I have to replay Anurid but you can't Mind Flayer until T10, so it doesn't help.
Edit: Mind Flayer lands Turn 6, which is fast enough OTD. WL 3-3
9. RoosterCocoa: Scavenger has protection from black, so it ignores the Guildmage. T3 Firebrand kills Guildmage + 3 damage, T4 4 damage, T5 5 damage, T6 5 damage. You get T6 haste Glorybringer killing Anurid, stabilizing at 3 life when I'm OTP. T7 Firebrand attacks [2 life], Glorybringer doesn't untap, Firebrand attacks again [1 life], then you can Exert kill Firebrand and stabilize at 1 life! LL 0-6
10. maxx!: I have to play T1 Firebrand, both to answer Mother and have a card in GY so Anurid doesn't sacrifice itself if DRS eats my Havenwood Battleground. That forces you to play Mother first, otherwise I could stop Ooze. You play T1 Mother (trades with Firebrand), T2 DRS, T3 Ooze, T4 upkeep it triggers. I get T3 Anurid T4 replay Firebrand. OTP I can kill your Ooze while it's 1/1, OTD I can't.
Edit: But OTD I can T5 double ping DRS to stop the Ooze growth at 5/5. Then for the rest of the game Firebrand can chump your Ooze & ping you. WW 6-0
11. silkster: Meddling Mage naming Fanatical Firebrand shuts off my deck. LL 0-6
12. alphastryk: I can pay for 1 Muse and beat through it. The fastest you can make double Muse is turn 7. That's slow enough that I can deal you lethal first. WW 6-0
36 points (12 wins, 10 losses)
Edit: My clock
T1 Havenwood Battleground tapped
T2 Mountain, Anurid Scavenger (sacrifice Battleground)
T3 redraw Battleground, hasty Fanatical Firebrand -> 4 damage
T4 upkeep ping, redraw Firebrand, hasty Firebrand -> 5 damage
T5 upkeep ping, redraw Firebrand, hasty Firebrand -> 5 damage
T6 upkeep ping, redraw Firebrand, hasty Firebrand -> 5 damage
19 damage by T6 if no blockers
Then I just need a Firebrand ping for the last damage
I think dte got this one right and it's a WW for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie
1 - chargeland / mentor
2 - counter(1) / token
3 - counter(2) / token, kris
4 - counter(3) / token, attack (18/17)
5 - counter(4) / token, attack (18/13)
Now you need to take action to stop yourself from dying. The issue here is that, if you steal kris, mentor takes over the game. And if you steal mentor, kris shoots mentor, mentor gets eventually redrawn, and takes over the game. Racing does not seem like an option either.
Do you have the tempo to do that fast enough? If you try to Petty Theft, Welder can respond by Welding Gearhulk into a land (countering Petty Theft). If you want to do that with Dust Bowl up to destroy the land before Welder can activate again, that means 5 mana + Dust Bowl (turn 7). A turn 2 5/4 deals a lot of damage by then!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie
Same thing here. You do have the tools to beat me, but can you do it fast enough? Your mana is slow. I can deal you 19 damage by my turn 6.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie
I was trying for a while to figure out how to abuse Magosi. That's clever. Block anything 100 times, then attack unblockable using extra turns to avoid counter attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
Oh my, that's really amazing. What a great use of such a terrible card. I considered Beloved Chaplain as my fourth card, but with Sheltered Valley gone (another one of your clever exploits; I brushed off Sheltered Valley as being only useful in close races), I didn't see how Chaplain could be both offence and defence.Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
It does look silly against the field that showed up, but it's one of the only ways to WW against Goblin Lackey outside of red mana for Firebrand. Amazingly, the Tocatli Honor Guard came prepared to fight off the Lackey first by playing an indestructible land, and then by preventing Sidisi's Faithful's trigger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
I struggled with that choice when I made it in the previous round. I did it because my deck was slow and I needed the blocker. Also because I thought Giver of Runes was embarrassing against Arboreal Grist, but I'm now realizing that Grist doesn't have enough loyalty to -2 twice before Mangara is active on the play. Though Mother over Giver did salvage me 1 point against Lackey and Shocker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie
GoblinSmashmaster results for Round "
1. Asthereal (TO): Dwarven Ruins, Fanatical Firebrand, Fanatical Firebrand, Gargadon
Goblin smash! then goblin smash :( 3-3
2. dte: Stomping Ground, Llanowar mentor, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Kris mage
Mage 3-3
3. Reeplcheep: Karakas, Azorius Chancery, Alirios, Enraptured, Inquisitive Puppet
Goblin smash! 6-0
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furance, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
That's me playing Goblins!
5. Nasst: Tocatli Honor Guard, Hunted Horror, Goldmire Bridge, Swamp
Horror smash :( 0-6
6. FTW: Havenwood Battleground, Copperline Gorge, Fanatical Firebrand, Anurid Scavenger
Goblin ping :( 0-6
7. PJim: Ancient Spring, Bazaar of Baghdad, Priest of Fell Rites, Serra's Emissary
Goblin smash! 6-0
8. Wrath of Pie: Saprazzan Cove, Dust Bowl, Mind Flayer, Brazen Borrower
Goblin smash! 6-0
9. RoosterCocoa: Blackcleave Cliffs, Molten Slagheap, Shadow Guildmage, Glorybringer
Mage 3-3
10. maxx!: Mother of Runes, Deathrite Shaman, Bloodhall Ooze, Ancient Ziggurat
Goblin smash! 6-0
11. silkster: Ruins of Trokair, Gemstone Mine, Meddling Mage, Priest of the Blessed Graf
Mage 3-3
12. alphastryk: Icatian Store, Icatian Store, Windborn Muse, Windborn Muse
Goblin smash! 6-0
Total: 36 points
When maxx! is on the play, Mother of Runes will be able to protect the creatures since you can't get two Gearhulk triggers between Mother untaps. And the Ooze will quickly outgrow the 5/4, play defense for a while, then attack and force blocks. Welder blocking tricks only work every other turn. WL I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster
What about Welding Gearhulk at End of Maxx's turn (force Mother tap), then untap and attacking? Mother won't be able to both protect itself and protect a blocker. That should force through some 5/4 Menace damage (since maxx! needs 2 blockers to stop Gearhulk, not just Ooze) making defense difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by silkster
Edit: Nevermind, DRS exiles the Great Furnace making this much simpler. WL 3-3
Ooze gets to 5/5 on turn 5, and even trading with Gearhulk is good enough because then DRS can slowly attack for 20. But that's hilarious that the land exiling can be used here to make the math really easy. I did not expect that out of the Shaman.
I think Wrath didn't realize the ping-on-upkeep line (and neither did I), but Mind Flayer comes down on T6 since Dust Bowl makes mana. So it looks like you get exactsies on the play. WL?Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
It seems that Wrath of Pie also updated this match from WW to WL.
I also agree with Wrath of Pie now that the Wrath of Pie-GoblinSmashmaster matchup is 3-3. When Wrath of Pie, having bounce available on turn 3 is winning. On the draw, it loses to Welder shenanigans to dodge the bounce spell.
I just looked back, and damn, you weren't kidding! Easy WW against 8 decks, WL against Mangara since you can only ping once before turn 4, and whatever your matchup against Magus + Windborn Muse (probably good, but I'm not doing this math). Anurid got played all the way back in Round 4, but there were still bigger more degenerate strategies available then. I've had this exact deck on my watchlist since Round 7, but I didn't think it was good enough, and I didn't even notice how well it would have scored last round.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
OTD GSM could play T1 Neonate T2 Welder and just beatdown with Menace Neonate. Wrath is forced to act first. T3 Petty Theft is fast enough, but GSM can just replay those creatures. Making Brazen Boi gives up the Petty Theft line (EOT Gearhulk kills it, with Welder untapped before Mind Flayer can be used). Mind Flayer or Dust Bowl would be met with Neonate sac + Weld into Gearhulk in response (countering the effect). It gets more complicated if Wrath stores mana longer to do multiple plays in one turn. But Welder can also attack in the earliest turns. Will come back to this math later.
Good point. The extra land throws off my storage land math shortcuts. Mind Flayer is fast enough on Wrath's play. WL 3-3Quote:
Originally Posted by silkster
I realized I should WW vs maxx! (100/100 Ooze can't actually deal me damage through infinite Fanatic chumps) so my score doesn't change overall.
I think Anurid got ignored after Fume Spitter got banned separately. The deck is much worse without it. I've been holding onto the Fanatical Firebrand version for a while, hoping for enough X/1s and X/2s (i.e. after Old-Growth Dryads got banned), because this version has a lot more bad matchups. 3/3 protection from black is hilarious against 4x TurboGrist though.Quote:
Originally Posted by silkster
The goblin settler and mangara decks seemed to me like the strongest thing, so I heavily built to beat both. Of course, neither one shows up.
3. Reeplcheep: Karakas, Azorius Chancery, Alirios, Enraptured, Inquisitive Puppet
1. Asthereal (TO): Dwarven Ruins, Fanatical Firebrand, Fanatical Firebrand, Gargadon WW per above
2. dte: Stomping Ground, Llanowar mentor, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Kris mage LL per above
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furance, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk LL per above
5. Nasst: Tocatli Honor Guard, Hunted Horror, Goldmire Bridge, Swamp LL per above
6. FTW: Havenwood Battleground, Copperline Gorge, Fanatical Firebrand, Anurid Scavenger I make the 3/2 on my turn 3 but you can only double ping starting on t4. You are on the back foot since you can’t block with either creature if you want to double ping. WL
Edit: 4-1?
7. PJim: Ancient Spring, Bazaar of Baghdad, Priest of Fell Rites, Serra's Emissary not legendary LL
8. Wrath of Pie: Saprazzan Cove, Dust Bowl, Mind Flayer, Brazen Borrower WL per above
9. RoosterCocoa: Blackcleave Cliffs, Molten Slagheap, Shadow Guildmage, Glorybringer WW per above
10. maxx!: Mother of Runes, Deathrite Shaman, Bloodhall Ooze, Ancient Ziggurat you get 4 power every 2 turns starting on t3 I get 3. But I can block your evasive alpha strike twice, so I think I win the race? WW??
11. silkster: Ruins of Trokair, Gemstone Mine, Meddling Mage, Priest of the Blessed Graf LL
12. alphastryk: Icatian Store, Icatian Store, Windborn Muse, Windborn Muse LL trying to beat LD means I lose to this deck.
8 W 14 L for 24/66 I think.
I think this is an easy win for Wrath on the play. Once you're threatening to bounce the Gearhulk, you can safely charge storage lands at end of turn. Wrath can wait until turn 8, then Flayer the Welder with UU floating to bounce the Gearhulk if it comes out. (I think Wrath only takes 9 damage while waiting, but in any case it's not close to lethal.) Then Welder + Flayer stay back to block, and Borrower eventually comes down and attacks 7 times.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
Anurid was played in round 4, but I didn't add it to my list. Fume Spitter was banned in round 5. Then for some reason Anurid+Firebrand made it into my list for round 7, but I didn't realize that it could kill X/2s. I also didn't realize how good its protection from black was for a minute there, even though I actively looked for other creatures with pro black. Oops.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
Anurid+Firebrand also would have done really well in round 9. So once Fury was kicked out, the little creatures came out to play, and recurring Firebrands is pretty good in that meta.
When will new kamigawa be legal here? Will we pre-ban this monstruosity or allow for the ban to happen organically? I, for one, welcome our LD overlords.
Boseiju, Who Endures