Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
After a 4-0-1 last month (BUG Delver 2-0, Eldrazi 2-0, 4C Aggro Loam 2-1, Eldrazi 2-1 and Eldrazi I.D.), I went 0-2 drop yesterday. I switched to Modern and fortunately made 4-0-1 there to rescue the weekend for me.
I lost against Aggroloam, the same guy I beat the month before, but this time he packed Dark Dephts and went insane lucky (everytime he didn't dredge Loam, he topdecked something insane such as Liliana, Punishing Fire, Decay), while at the same time playing in a way that lets me win if I either topdeck Wasteland, Rishadan Port and Flickerwisp. I mean, that gives me 12 outs, which I should eventually draw even in a deck without cantrips. But I didn't. There might be one point where I might have made a misplay, it involved unattaching SoFaI from Batterskull-germ and equipping a Mirran Crusader with SoFaI in an attempt to protect him from topdeck PunFire. However, the result was that my Germ-Token got double-PunFire'd by a topdeck Punishing Fire and I still couldn't get around that stupid Maze. It was a blurry situation, but other than that I'm sure I played it as optimal as possible, and certainly would have won with either of the above mentioned card.
However, the match afterwards I got annihilated by some BURG shitpile with maindeck Lavamancer, Jitte and True-Name Nemesis (no Delvers). It was unfortunate, but g2 he opened with 1st Turn Dread of Night to which I topdecked Mother, Thalia, Thalia while he had TNN again. I went for Stoneforge Mystic into SoFaI because I already had Batterskull and then got double Thoughtseize'd.
I was wondering, is there a non-clunky card beside Council's Judgment that can be boarded against decks that might bring Dread of Night?
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Adan
I was wondering, is there a non-clunky card beside Council's Judgment that can be boarded against decks that might bring Dread of Night?
Leonin Relic Warder, although it's very vulnerable to removal. Disenchant/Seal of Cleansing will always be solid sb cards if your meta warrants their inclusion.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
+1/+1 effects usually see sb play for primarily this situation; Dread of Night, Night of Souls' Betrayal, Golgari Charm, etc. Veteran Armorer, Wilt-Leaf Liege (if they're on black for Dread of Night, they likely are also on discard like Liliana, Hymn, etc) and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar are commonly played sb cards that also have marginal utility vs non-Dread of Night decks. For example, you'd board in Gideon vs something like Miracles.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
I think there's a big difference between the 'big' Dread of Night responses (Wilt-Leaf, Gideon) and the 'small' Dread of Night responses (Relic-Warder, Disenchant, Ratchet Bomb, Veteran Armorer). Wilt-Leaf, Gideon, Council's Judgment aren't going to do anything to help you against fast combo (ANT, Reanimator), which is approximately 50% of the time you'll see the card. OTOH Relic-Warder / Veteran Armor are not great against the midrange Dread of Night decks, since they'll just die to some other removal.
Truthfully, the card is just very good against DnT and thankfully it's too narrow for most people to play. I personally think the 'big' responses are too narrow to be worth SB spots for us, and whenever I try playing one I drop it after realizing I'm only bringing it in for something like 10% of matches. Relic-Warder might not beat a midrange deck, but it has value in tons of non-Dread of Night matchups so its overall value as a SB slot is a lot higher.
I like having SB plans that make you less dependent on x/1s rather than SB plans built around protecting them. Lately I have been playing a ton of Mirran Crusaders in the SB and swapping them with x/1s g2/3. This allows you both the power of regular T2 Thalia, T3 Wingmare wins g1 + the ability to play a good grindy sideboard game. Maxing out on Mirran Crusaders and playing a lot of Rest in Peaces (and Ethersworn Canonists for Storm) is a good way to be better against Dread of Night / Golgari Charm decks while not necessarily beating the card itself. If you can ensure yourself at least 2 very good games against their deck, it's fine to lose one to Dread of Night. And it's possible to do that without playing too many 'targeted' SB cards.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Hey all! I finished 17th (6-2-0) at the SCG Columbus legacy classic last weekend, and I thought I'd write a tournament report.
My list was:
10 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of Runes
4 Flickerwisp
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Serra Avenger
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
Sideboard:
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Rest in Peace
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Council's Judgment
2 Warping Wail
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Cataclysm
1 Containment Priest
1 Pithing Needle
1 Path to Exile
1 Spellskite
R1: 2-1 vs Reset Tide
G1: I'm able to curve a Mom into a Spirit and finish him off before he can find a way to remove SotL. I don't see which variant he is on, as I only see him cast a high tide and fizzle.
G2: He goes off before I can get any relevant hate pieces. On top of this, I brought in a needle thinking he was playing candles, but alas, my revoker and needle on candelabra are not enough to stop the combo.
G3: He misses on lands and Thalia is able to slow him down enough for me to swing lethal.
R2: 0-2 vs Sneak and Show
These games were uninteresting, as I mulled to 5 and 4 before getting annihilator 6'd before being able to do anything.
R3: 2-0 vs Death and Taxes
G1: My opponent and I had met at a previous event , so we both groan as we learn we're in for the mirror. He lands a T2 jitte, but I'm able to plow all of his potential weapon carriers before I'm able to Mangara the jitte. Eventually, connect with my own to close out this one.
G2: I have a slow hand and he's able to get 2 SFM's to grab a sword of light and shadow as well as a jitte. Luckily, I'm able to use a pithing needle on the sword and Flickerwisps out my vial to flicker jitte wielders. I finish out the game with a wisp carrying a sword of fire and ice and a jitte.
R4: 0-2 vs TES
G1: I'm up against Caleb Scherer (really awesome guy, by the way) I keep a hand with double Thalia, but he's able to get a probe into a therapy for Thalia. I die to tendrils shortly after.
G2: I keep a hand with double Canonist and a spirit, but with only one land. I was probably too greedy here, and I'm only able to draw land after there are 14 goblin tokens on the table.
R5: 2-1 vs Shardless BUG
G1: I get a T1 mom into a T2 SFM. My spirit makes his two visions look fairly unhelpful, and I grind out the game with batterskull and a Jitte from a second SFM.
G2: I get my board wrathed by a deluge, before untapping and playing thalia. He proceeds to play E-Plague on human, and my hand full of x/1 humans looks really sad against a Garruk Relentless.
G3: The game becomes slow after I spend my turns trying to blank a jitte by hitting its carriers with removal. Eventually, I'm able to resolve a mystic and a giant sword carrying germ takes the game.
R6: 2-0 vs Miracles (creatureless)
G1: I establish 2 vials and a sword before he entreats for 3 out of pressure from ports. I flicker two of them and proceed to win with a crusader carrying the sword.
G2: He gets stuck on lands and I'm able to waste him off of white and red. Once again, my sword carrying creatures carry me to victory.
R7: 2-0 vs Shardless Bug
G1: Double mom helps me swing my batterskull through a wall of Goyfs, and I eventually speed up the clock with my sword.
G2: He mulls into a slow hand, and I get a stoneforge online. He tries to resolve a visions to find an answer, but I have the Warping Wail to counter it.
R8: 2-0 vs Eldrazi
G1: I keep double wisp, crusader, double plains, vial, and a plow on the draw (not certain that was correct, but it got there). I flicker his attackers and plow a Seer before drawing a third wisp for the 9/9 endless one. After revoking his displacer, I'm able to swing lethal.
G2: He plays an endless one for two, and I waste the tomb. He gets in for four before I'm able to get two vials on board and path his endless one, as he hasn't stuck any other creatures. He proceeds to needle vial and remove my two creatures with wails. I then play a stoneforge, but the jitte she finds gets exiled to a thought knot. After plowing the TKS, I spend the next ~8 turns swinging with mystic and porting him off of his only three lands. Eventually, I find a judgment for the needle and vial in more threats while continuing to deny him mana.
Overall, I thought I played pretty well, and I think this mainboard configuration is my favorite as of right now. I'll probably keep playing around with the SB, but it was fairly well put together for this meta (with the exception of the spellskite).
Anyway, thanks to everyone for continually contributing to this thread and helping newer D&T players like myself.
Good Luck and Happy Taxing
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
I figure someone has already tested it but I'm wondering how people feel about running Eldrazi Displacer. It seems like 8 colorless sources would be decent for the activation and you could sure get some value out of it. Also, 3/3 non-white creature has utility for DoN. Anyone looked into this?
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Some people have had moderate success with it: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/402457#online
It is obviously nightmare to deal with if left unchecked in a grindy fair matchups and if you local meta has a lot of those then it should be a good card. I would hate to face it in the mirror, you pretty much would need a STP or Revoker immediately or you're gonna just lose.
But a 3 mana 3/3 with the potential for upside is still quite slow for legacy. It doesn't pressure their mana or have evasion (Wingmare/Flickerwisp) or dodge any deck's removal (Crusader/Brimaz). So it's pretty unreliable as a beater and doesn't have any immediate disruption attached.
For Mono-W (and maybe even Imperial) I think it makes a lot of sense as a SB option to bring in to wreck fair matches rather than trying to squeeze it in the main, which is how people have been testing it. e.g. in the list I posted there, he's playing a Brimaz in the board and Displacer main. I think switching those two would have made more sense. He's playing two Caverns, and any list that is playing it should be playing at minimum one.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Lost out in the top 8 of the GPT this weekend with mono-white D&T. It did me well, but Elves was just able to get off to too much of a start. He was able to get to Progenetis before I could find a Counsel's Judgment, which makes things unwinnable. A few interesting things of note:
Lost to Losset-style Miracles in the swiss, bringing my record against it with the deck to something like 1 - 118437857393. For some reason I can never end up getting the advantage in the match.
Beat burn twice, once in a very close three games; the other was a complete blowout where he dropped Pyrostatic Pillar but I actually outraced him in damage with a SoFaI equipped Serra Avenger.
Vial > Mom + Canonist > SfM + Mirran Crusader > Jitte on Crusader + Containment Priest in response to GSZ > Cataclysm was one of my favorite four turns of the weekend.
Beat Eldrazi in three games. Mom is worthless, but Gideon from the SB making a blocker every turn to buy time worked out well.
Didn't bring in any of the RiP from the board at all through the day, but everything else in the 15 got some time in the main. Sea Gate Wreckage drew me roughly 10 cards over the span of the games I played, but I'm still on the fence between it and another value land.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Is Eiganjo Castle viable in the 3rd Karakas slot? I'm anxious to get to play this, and I'm all of a Karakas, 2 Ports, 2 Avenger and 2 Mangara away from finished. The reason I ask is that I'm much further from playing this if I must wait on the third Karakas. Also, in testing I've had occasional issues with the Legendary status with 3 Karakas.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Castle just isn't a good card, there's not that much small creature combat in legacy (and Thalia has first strike anyway) and it saves your legends from 0% of the commonly played removal spells. You really have to work to come up with situations where the card matters.
You probably can afford to toss Castle in regardless since the downside is very low and you can generally afford to only play 2 Karakas without significantly lowering your win %, it's just not optimal. If you are just playing games locally it's really not something to worry too much about. You probably shouldn't play any Mangara if you are only playing 2 Karakas however.
And yes, you will hit the multiple Karakas hands over time, but the upside of having 3 copies of a plains that can just autowin you the game vs a lot of decks is pretty huge.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Secretly.A.Bee
Is Eiganjo Castle viable in the 3rd Karakas slot? I'm anxious to get to play this, and I'm all of a Karakas, 2 Ports, 2 Avenger and 2 Mangara away from finished. The reason I ask is that I'm much further from playing this if I must wait on the third Karakas. Also, in testing I've had occasional issues with the Legendary status with 3 Karakas.
It's really not as good. Karakas is used to also disrupt Reanimator and other cheaty decks, and Castle won't protect a Thalia or Mangara from a Bolt. Anyway, I'd suggest sleeving up what you have and starting to get time in. I'm about to do the same with Chaos Elves despite being 2 Cradles short. Just my 2c. :cool:
P.S. Mangara isn't necessarily a staple anywhere in the 75 anymore, but most (monowhite) decks run 3 Karakas, 4 Port, and 3-4 Avenger.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
I'm using Mangara to be cute with Eldrazi Displacer. Thanks for the input. I'll be here more frequently soon.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kirbysdl
I'm about to do the same with Chaos Elves
Get out!
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Secretly.A.Bee
Eldrazi Displacer ... I'll be here more frequently soon.
I was really looking forward to Displacer being awesome, but it didn't end up doing enough for the pretty high associated mana requirements. I'd love to hear if you end up making it work out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
c2232
Get out!
I'm also looking for a 3-color Brainstorm deck but haven't really found much that speaks to me. :tongue:
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
I've tried a Naya build with 3 Mayor of Avabrucks at two local store events lately, went 2-0-1 and 3-1, beating 12 Post, Infect, Merfolk, BUG Delver and Red Sneak/Breech splitting with some Miracles brew and losing to Reanimator (Hit his one of Massacre g3.)
The lists have looked something like this:
4 Thalia
4 Mom
3 Sfm
3 Flickerwisp
3 Mayor
3 Recruiter
1 Magus
1 Fiend Hunter
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Revoker
1 Vryn Wingmare
4 Vial
4 STP
1 SoFi
1 Jitte
3 Cavern
5 Fetch
1 Plateau/1 Savannah
2 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Port
3 Karakas
Two separate games I was able to spike wins with bad hands purely off Mayor into Mayor (12 Post and Fish). If your opponent has a slow start and they both flip + you have 2 tokens, that's 16 power on board for a 4 mana investment, which is pretty absurd. This mana for this build still feels a bit fragile and I'm not going to take it to a competitive event, but there's definitely a deck in here somewhere.
Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
With GP Sydney (side event's only) and Eternal Masters (Australia's only Eternal weekend) coming up, I've been doing a lot of online testing on Cockatrice (because dat price of Ports on Modo :eek:) and I've been having the best results with Mono White taxes. As much as I like R/W, I've been overall rather displeased with the overall low attacking power level of the deck. Pia and Kiran have been great, but they haven't completely solved the decks problems unfortunately. The Eldrazi matchup can sometimes be a cakewalk if you go Vial into Stoneforge into Moon, dodge TKS, but overall it's been playing out rather badly for me with taxcake (4-7). Mono-white however has been shining against Eldrazi, with my record being 11-3 against Eldrazi.
With that said, I'm looking to go back to mono-white with the following list which has been doing well for me online.
4 Ęther Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Flickerwisp
2 Mangara of Corondor
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
3 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Karakas
8 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
SB: 2 Cataclysm
SB: 2 Council's Judgment
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Nevinyrral's Disk
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 3 Warping Wail
The disk is mainly for Eldrazi, but I could also see it being decent against other midrangey creature-control decks like Maverick and Stone/Deathblade.
Just after some thoughts from you guys on the admittedly, very stock list.
Also, is Cavern #2 better than Sea Gate #1?
Cheers.