in this case this card is not good here. Thanks for the advice.
Any more ideas?
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in this case this card is not good here. Thanks for the advice.
Any more ideas?
I´m toying with the deck and i´ve made some improvements to it. I love how this deck can kill fast and how it plays.
I´ve removed 4 mountain for 4 teetering peaks. This land provides red t play flame javelin (same as mountains you know ;) ) but it also gives any of your trampling guys (spark, hellspark, serpent) a +2 damage ftw. I think this land has a place here.
I don´t like decree of anihilation. I´m going to use only 4 gargadon as 10CC card till WOTC prints any new red card with a huge CC that can be played on an alternate way. Till then i have to fill 3 slots so i´m thinking on playing hell´s thunder or POP. THe deck has 8 non basic lands (peeks and nexus) so POP is assumible here. THunder flies and can benefit from the peeks. Are there any other good card to be played here?
The any other option I´m considering for those slots is FORK. You can fork fireblast, shoal, cave in and so, but not sure yet because sometimes fork is unuseful.
Any idea or advice?
two things about T.Peaks:Quote:
Originally Posted by zabuza
- it enters tapped (slows you down one turn)
- it's NOT a mountain (can't sacc to Fireblast)
I wouldn't play more that two of it for exacly those reasons. And in a deck that wants to combo out asap most of the time, it just seems misplaced to me. BUT:
As this is theory, I might be terribly wrong about it, so PLEASE test it!
there are options:Quote:
I don´t like decree of anihilation. I´m going to use only 4 gargadon as 10CC card till WOTC prints any new red card with a huge CC that can be played on an alternate way. Till then i have to fill 3 slots so i´m thinking on playing hell´s thunder or POP. THe deck has 8 non basic lands (peeks and nexus) so POP is assumible here. THunder flies and can benefit from the peeks. Are there any other good card to be played here?
Avatar of Fury: cmc 8, costs 2 (unlikely)
Fury of the Horde: cmc 7, costs two red cards
a little too expensive, I think:
Lavaball Trap: cmc 8, costs 5 (not unlikely)
Akroma, Angel of Fury: cmc 8, costs 6 (morph)
Don't forget it can counter counterspells... absolutely not sure, if it is or isn't worth playing, but if you stay with low-cost spells, I'd definitely prefer PoP.Quote:
The any other option I´m considering for those slots is FORK. You can fork fireblast, shoal, cave in and so, but not sure yet because sometimes fork is unuseful.
Any idea or advice?
What about...
- Fork; copy shoal ,double Cave-In/Pyrokinesis or maybe countercounter :laugh:
- Burning wish; you can wish for a decree in order to support shoal, or for something useful like anarchy, spree, cave in, burn
- Pyrostaic Piller (MD); could be in combination with factorys a red standstill, which works great with the high CC of many spells
- Glitterfang; he comes back to support Cave-In or Pyrokinesis
I´ve tested teetering peaks and i think it is good in this deck. It slows you down a little but most of your creatures only cost R and giving a +2/+0 making your elementals and so a 5/1 trampler guys is nice. You can sac it to fireblast but we are playing 11 mountains so it´s not usually a problem.
I´ve tested too:
Fork: Lot of times is unuseful so this card is not going to be here. Sometimes is good but very situational.
Burning wish: Slows down the deck a lot so i think it doesn´t worth it.
Pyrostaic Pillar: Lot of damage for us too. All our dudes cost mana and this card doesn´t anything good for us.
Glitterfang: 1/1 hasted returned guy. I don´t like it. Somethimes is better viashino standstalker or any of its cousins.
Avatar of Fury: Never could play it. Lot of expensive and 7 lands in the oppoenent´s field is a lot.
Fury of the Horde: Another it doesn´t worth it card. 3 cards for beating again with any of our dudes (without shoal ) is an horrible play. With shaoling a dude is better but i´m not liking it at all.
Lavaball Trap: lot of expensive. Decree of anihilation make a better job and it doesn´t worth it so this card is bad too.
Akroma, Angel of Fury: Always played as a 2/2 or pitched away. Again lot of expensive to have it on work.
I´ve tested it against my vampire legacy deck and lost almost everygame because 20/20 flier on second turn is very painful here (no way to remove it) and lifelink, first strike, or an active jitte is not good at all. I´m thinking on including 4 sulfuric vortex because preventing life gaining while dealing the last damages. What do you think?
I´m going to test the deck again an play a shop tourney on friday so please can you help me to improve it?.
Any more ideas?? Please help me.
Everlasting Torment? Causes Wither damage and prevents lifegain shenanigans, as well as preventing CoP: Red.
It would be another interesting option, but i think vortex is better here.
I´m thinking on using threaten, grab the reins or so because we can take the opponent best creature, beat with it and sac it to gargaddon so it could be an interesting option.
What do yout think? If only there would be an instant cheap (2 mana or less or an alternate mana cost) to gain control of opponent´s creatures.....
Any more ideas?
Well, that is what you play her for, isn't it? A pitch for X=8.Quote:
Originally Posted by zabuza
You disliked Decree for an obvious reason, Akroma kind of solves that. Of course you'll rarely morph her (six mana REALLY is a lot), but you CAN cast her as a 3 mana 2/2 if needed.
I think this is the best option available - if wizards ever prints another Greater Gargadon, this would be an easy cut.
Maybe I've got another option:
Spitebellows pitches for six, but can be used as a three mana removal. Six damage should be enough for almost any given creature in the format - with notable exceptions of Dreadnoughts, Marit Lage tokens and the occasional protected guy. Even Tarmogoyf is not seen at 6/7 everyday.
Further thought:
Ingot Chewer might be viable for sideboard...
I´ve already thought on spitebellows and ingot chewer. They have high cost while can be played for cheaper costs. The problem ob bellows is that as you have said there are creatures that are inmune to it. Anyways i´m going to give them a try and see what can it do.
What about playing any kind of "your dude is mine" spell?
Lot of thanks.
Worth testing, I guess - but then I'd use either Unwilling Recruit or Mark of Mutiny - just for the bonus... sadly there's no such spell for <3 mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by zabuza
btw. it would be MUCH more fun, if we had something to sacc it eot... wait - there's Gargadon!
With that number of Sparks wouldn't it be worth trying to pack more sacc outlets? I'm thinking of Jinxed Idol (pseudo removal or burn) or Goblin Bombardment (a little too weak, I guess). Or is it just danger of cool things (as I'm afraid it is)?
I´ve thought on:
Scorched rusalka
Shivan harvest
Goblin bombardment
And using threaten or grab the reins for taking guys.
More ideas??
Here is the list I have been playing around with. Sneak Attack is almost always removed to pay for cave-in or pyrokinesis, but every now and then Progenitus hitting the board finishes the game. I have also found that those 2CC difference from progenitus to any other 8CC red spell really does often make a difference. I have tried to fit in gamble, show and tell, natural order, basically anyway to be able to use Progenitus / whatever big creature goes in his slot into play. so far i definately like sneak attack best. the other debate is over the land base. i have found the man lands to be very cumbersome in this deck and slow. i also have gone against using a lot fetches because i am going to be sacking the lands for gargadon and fireblast anyway.
Creatures
4 Goblin Guide
4 Greater Gargadon
3 Hell's Thunder
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Progenitus
4 Spark Elemental
Spells
4 Blazing Shoal
3 Cave-In
4 Fireblast
4 Flame Javelin
2 Pyrokinesis
Enchantments
2 Sneak Attack
Lands
4 Scalding Tarn
14 Mountain
Sideboard
1 Cave-In
1 Hell's Thunder
4 Price of Progress
2 Pyrokinesis
4 Summoning Trap
3 Tormod's Crypt
What do you even play fetches for in the first place? Deck-thinning is a statistical exaggeration and nothing more!Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturdayKnight
Cracking a fetch land does reduce the chance of drawing land,... by less than 2% each time (in relevant cases - and the number gets lower the more lands AND the more cards are left in your library - you can easily verify this with a little calculation in excel.)
Keeping that in mind, I'd say cut fetches, play T.Peaks, man lands or just basic mountains.
Sneak Attack on the other hand is interesting...
Don't you like Mogg War Marshal in place of Hell's Thunder ? It's just awesome with GG and it provides too many creatures to be blocked. Paying the echo is not really a problem in a deck where you barely pay for spells.
Where I looks at your list, I notice that some cards are just fillers. Flame Javelin, Hell's thunder, Pyrokinesis are all qui weak cards. I think that this deck might find more and interest later with new cards from new sets.
I´ve though on sneak attack before but i don´t know if it´s neccesary here.
I mean in the current version we are using cheap dudes that can be played easily without sneaking them. If you play greater gargadon, but also progenitus, reaper king, overlord hellkite an so then sneak attack is your card for sure. Although 4 mana is expensive if you use the monster´s version could be playable.
Anyways, i think this card is not needed here because if you want to include in the deck you must "at least" have 8 or more big mosnters so you are reducing the number of reach cards like flame javelin and so, isn´t it?
Well after further testing I have simplified my deck a bit. Finally playing in a well developed meta has been very beneficial to this deck. It definitely isn't going to win any major tournaments, but it is definitely a lot of fun to play. It plays a lot like a more explosive, less consistent sligh now. i think if this deck "Pitch World" wants to become an established deck, it needs to stay away from mono-red and go 5c with some combo or protection like this thread started with. I also don't really see how this deck could possibly overtake dream halls right now as I see them in very similar play styles.
4x Greater Gargadon
4x Hellspark Elemental
4x Lightning Serpent
4x Progenitus
4x Spark Elemental
4x Blazing Shoal
4x Fireblast
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Magma Jet
4x Price of Progress
20x Mountain
Sideboard:
4x Vexing shusher
4x Pyrokinesis
2x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
4x Shattering Spree
Do you really have Progen in there just for the shoals? That doesn't seem very economical- if you're gonna use them it does seem like Sneak Attack has a place. eq.firemind pointed this out about the decrees earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturdayKnight
I'd definitely would consider splashing blue for Show and Tell, I mean, you're playing 4 Progenitus.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturdayKnight
Hello, I just signed up to this forum to show you my varitation of this deck. I have tried to combine both the pitch idea and Erratic Explosion for "reach".
Here is my current and fairly untested list:
4 Reaper King
4 Progenitus
4 Nicol Bolas
4 Erratic Explosion
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Blazing Shoal
4 Force of Will
4 Misdirection
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Mutavault
4 Mishra’s Factory
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
The 12 highcosted creatures can all be pitched to both red and blue spells aswell as deal quite alot of damage with Erratic Explosion.
I also have the manlands + the shoal for explosive kills.
Misdirection and FoW are there to protect me when I combo out.
Ponder and Brainstorm are there to filter my deck for the right card in the right situation, and brainstorm can also put a high costed card back on top.
I would love to get your thoughts about this variation.
Why don't you play Show and Tell? It looks worth it. Then you should play Prince of Thralls instead of Nicol Bolas. 8 coloured lands seems not much too. I'd play at least 10.