I'd love to see the white splash variety make a comeback, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
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I'd love to see the white splash variety make a comeback, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
You mean New Horizons?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Ragu
Not an expert on the deck, but off the top of my head I can't recall ever seeing an actual threshold creature that's used in New Horizons.
why add white? after we sword to plowshare any creaturewith power 2 < we need 1 turn more to finish the opponent in 80% of the games. Also Path to exile won't fit into the stifle/wasteland strategy, maybe there is a way to play it like the ppl above said in a way of new horizons or maybe a thresh build with armageddon but i think black/red are the colors to splash in a g/u/x tempo based deck.
Black and Red are unquestionably the more viable splash choices, but I've always vastly preferred going with a white splash.
Do you mean the really old school thresh lists with mystic enforcer and fledgling dragon? Those are a tad bit outdated since this guy called tarmogoyf was printed. And really, there is only one deck that uses a creature with threshold and that is canadian thresh with 18 lands, no jace, no sower, only 4 mongeese and 4 tarmogoyf for win con's.
Thresh build's with armageddon are fail. No to using path to exile and like you said swords makes us slower to kill them which matters a lot.
Dead//Gone bouncing iona seems hilariously funny; I can imagine the iona's controller going "Wtf is that card OH SHIT!!!" when they read it.
Punishing fire could be a SB option against decks with lifegain in the form of rhox war monks, jitte's, or whatever they have. Although I agree that the combo seem's unneeded against most decks and if you have just grove but no punishing fire in hand it is a setback because they will gain 1 life every time you tap it which seems bad.
He really does, though the lack of a thresh creature will make him say no...Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
I love this deck. Played it at a local event (near identical list to primer with F/I) to a 4-0 finish beating arguably the four best people in the room. Beat 43lands, Bant stuff, Excalibur, and Zoo. Mchainmail, Talon7331, HungrylikeALion,Benjammin respectively. Also had a 102 fever...
The inablility to nicely deal with KotR is a pain. I want to change a slot in my board to control magic as suggested. There are a lot of creatures that just flat out are bad for these builds, since it is rare we have the biggest creatures available. Also kinda worried that I keep going 2-1 in every match up with the deck. I mean, sure it is a win, but being able to make it solidly 2-0 is ideal.
Ancient grudge in board is the cutest thing.
I dont understand why this deck works. I've been playing it and I've loved it (except against lands.dec). You'd think that the awkward identity crisis it seems to have between tempo and control would make it terrible but somehow the deck wins.
Totally. It looks like it's incredibly draw-dependant, but it really seems to work and its matchups seem to be quite good aswell. Maybe this kind of "randomness" might be the reason why it works, I'm not sure. If the matchups should really be like chinEsE girl stated in the opening post, I might give it a try next month or something. The only thing that bothers me is the lack of serious removal, which has always been the reason why I didn't like Canadian. Is Dead // Gone really that good? To me it seems kinda cute, but some of guys seem to like it. Is it better than Vedalken Shackles and Fire // Ice or is that a metagame-choice?Quote:
Originally Posted by sa17dk
Yeah sometimes I get worried about the lack of real removal for big Goyfs and fat green creatures like Knight of the Reliquary but it's just something you have to deal with. Like most decks in legacy, there are gonna be aspects of the deck which are metagame dependent (because of how many viable decks there are in this format).
I've personally been testing a set up of 4 Lightning Bolt + 1 Fire/Ice + 2 Forked Bolt (and sometimes Dead/Gone). I love this set up right now. I have a lot of Merfolk/Noble Hierarch/Shitty utility creatures/Goblin Lackey/Zoo in my area (as well as other decks) so being able to answer random creatures on my first turn when I'm on the draw is insanely helpful. The utility of Ice has been meh for me. You're not gonna be able to tap down an Emrakul or Progenitus, and if an Iona comes down theyre gonna name blue anyways so it wont help you there either. Even if you could, this deck doesnt exactly alpha-strike for the win so it would only buy you a turn anyways. I'd much rather try to answer the threat by trying to prevent it from resolving through counterspells.
Also, I'd stay away from Vedalken Shackles. If you're unsatisfied with the Sower of Temptation, try Control Magic or Threads of Disloyalty instead.
I found this deck that make top8 at a tournament here in spain played from a friend of the one that top9 in Gp Madrid. The list is this:
3 Trinket Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Misty rainforest
2 Polluted delta
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's factory
3 Island
2 Scalding tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Pithing needle
1 Basilisk collar
1 Crucible of worlds
1 EE
3 F/I
4 Fow
4 Brainstorm
2 Jace 2.0
2 Ponder
3 Lightinng bolt
3 Stifle
3 Spell snare
1 Sensei divining top
Side board
1 Krosan grip
1 Ancient grudge
1 Pithing needle
2 Firespout
1 Tormods crypt
2 EE
3 Spell pierce
1 Jace Beleren
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Red blast
1 Relic of progenitus
I try it yesterday and I made 3-3 losing to Hivemind, goblins and WG Maverick. I lost to hive mind because i made almost no pressure so he played with time. With goblins I think I have to test it more because I think I play wrong all the times. With WG in the second round I mull to 7 one wasteland, mull to 6 no lands, mull to 5, 2 lands, kgrip, EE and firespout, but lose to a wasteland.
I'll give it a try becaouse trinket to basilisk and sensei's is awsome and in some matchups pithing needle and ee preside is awsaome.
The only change I made is -1 island +1 forest couse we don't play daze and a playset of misty rainforest to be able to search that forest.
I now it isn't a threshold but it uses almost the same tools.
Hmm interesting Trinket Mage use. I definitely agree that Sower of Temptation is the weakest card in the deck so cutting them for Trinket Mage is not too shabby but I dont know if I agree with all those targets. I would probably only run singletons of EE, Pithing Needle, and Top.
Also I dont know how much I've liked the Crucible in the main. It hasnt been terrible but it hasnt exactly been awesome either.
Basiliks collar breaks tarmo wars, wins you life, and can win races like tarmo vs rhox could do with lifelink.
Crucible has been awsome to me in many occasions.
I guess. But we already win Goyf wars with burn, which also doubles as reach for races.
Has anyone else tested against Vengevine Madness? I'm pretty sure we need to make room for Pithing Needles in the board.
I've been a fan of NLT since it's performance an 'unlucky' 9th place at GP: Madrid earlier this year. It took some time, but I finally got my second Jace TMS this week, so I was able to take the deck to our local store's regular tournament today.
This is the list I played.
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Sower of Temptation
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare
3 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Rushing River - "Mr. Catch-All." Love it. Combines nicely with Crucible, if you happen to have them both.
1 Fire // Ice - loved it in Canandian, but only used it once today; incredible flexibility in theory, but third Ponder might be better
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Forked Bolt - acts as Bolt #5; kills early Lackey, Hierarch, Bob, Nacatl or lonely Merfolk Lords
1 Crucible of Worlds - Awesome.
1 Engineered Explosives - "Mrs. Catch-All." Sometimes somewhat slow, but great utility to have.
1 Veldalken Shackles - Great every time it resolved.
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
SB
3 Firespout
2 Pyroblast
2 Krosan Grip
1 Seedtime
1 Trygon Predator
3 Spell Pierce
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
Since I mentally divide this deck into a must-have core and quite some flexible slots, I stuffed some 1-ofs into the list just to see how they performed. I know that there are a lot of variables for evaluating a card's impact in certain situations, but nevertheless I think that this can be a viable way for testing cards for theese slots. Same goes for the Sideboard. I tried to reproduce my reasoning for them as well.
I also considered playing 2 Grim Lavamancer in the deck, but I think this needs a rework of the manabase. Having 3 basic Islands was great throughout the day, as was the certainty to have Mr.Catch-all as an nearly always castable answer to random nastiness in the deck.
I went 3-2 after a 2-0 start:
BRg Disruptive.dec - 2:0
The kind of deck where the tempo elements of the deck really shine. Sower on Dark Confidant for 2 easy wins.
UG Vengevival 2:0
Having experimented with this deck I know a bit about it's strengths and weaknesses, therefore FoW'ed an unprotected turn 2 Survival, took some beats from an exalted Roowalla and finally took over with Jace. Game 2 was very unspectacular as he seemed to have kept a questionable hand.
Cats-zoo - 1:2
G1 I kept a good hand with Fow, Ponder, 2 lands, Bolt and something more. I didn't FoW the 1st turn Steppe Lynx, but fail to find red mana before it teamed up wih a Nacatl. Those two dealt enough damage to let him finish me with burn. I took control over G2 quickly after destroying nearly all of his manabase and killing his team with Spout. Shackles joined in... G3 went back and forth, but I took too much damage before stabilizing and was burned out again.
URg Painter / Nought Hybrid 1:2
Won G1 quickly after he mulligans once. G2 was a long one which was decided by a Dreadnought of him I couldn't answer after Gripping away his Back to Basics (!!). G3 I mull a hand away which was quite keepable by hindsight. I hold both Grip and Predator, but watch helpless getting beaten down by a lone Trinke Mage with B2B in play, 2 fetchlands being stifled an one or two lands wasted. Sigh.
Ubg Tempo/Fearies with Noughts and Standstills 2:0
The deck description sounds weired, but there is a lot of good stuff lurking in there. I know most parts of his deck after watching him playing it at previous tournaments. We play two uneventful games in which I partially support his srew by using Stifles and Wastes. Jace's fateseal keeps him of a Forest in G2 and Clique + Factory seal the deal.
Though this is just a mediocre finish when looking at the pure numbers, I know that I had good chances in the matches I lost. Therefore the result could have been a lot better. In fact, both matches felt to be quite winable. Cat Zoo is an incredibly fast deck, but seems to be very beatable given an average draw at least. I haven't seen B2B for more than a year now, an G3 my opponent's draw was very good to my mulligan on the play. Overall I am very satisfied with the deck and will continue to work on it.
I like the EE. I want to fit two of them into my list.
Has anyone tested cards like Dreadnought to give us some more creatures to beat face with?
A problem that has occasionally come up for me is the deck would have all the cute tempo cards but no pressure to capitalize on it.
How would Standstill do in this deck? You have manlands and wastelands. Seems like it might be better than Daze.
I dont like Standstill in this deck. The only thing Standstill does is let them recover after you've gained tempo.
On the other hand, Daze has been very subpar for me. I want to try out Spell Pierce in their place.
I really like the idea of this deck!
Just wondering - has anyone been testing Arc Trail as an alternative to Forked Bolt or Fire/Ice? 1 more than Forked Bolt, but you can get those Qasali's and 2 for 1 a Lord + X/1 guy?
Esper3k I was playing this deck 1-2 months ago and you guys called it jank... Althought the older lists ran 4 Sprites instead of extra Cliques and burn but essentially the same idea of not playing too tight a CT list
Yaay go non DTB decks! It's a good deck, on paper it looks like Landstill + Canandian Thresh hybrid, but in actuality, it's still a tempo deck but with a better mid-game and not getting blown out entirely when an opponent slips past e.g. resolves a Top GG.