Would Ensnaring Bridge be worth trying in this deck? Granted, it stops our Batterskull but it utterly screws over merfolk and show-n-tell?
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Would Ensnaring Bridge be worth trying in this deck? Granted, it stops our Batterskull but it utterly screws over merfolk and show-n-tell?
Ensnaring bridge has always been good to me in balance lists. It ends merfolk, SNT, and is also a good out to knight decks. I would recommend testing it. Works best with a couple of Jaces to win behind.
Keep in mind this is a thread about CounterTop with Stoneforge Mystic. Ensnaring Bridge seems terrible when that's your main plan.
- Well, I can't think of any new ideas at the moment. I feel like we need more outs to GSZ, Vial, and SnT since they are the problem matchups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
I think if you insist on playing stoneforge and countertop in the same deck, you need to trim other mana intensive cards for flexible ones to make up for how slow the deck sets up. Conditional counters and more grims is the approach I'd take. If playing grims, I won't bother with snapcaster at all as you are sharing a graveyard and Snapcaster is pretty much a 3 drop which is heavy on the curve.
- Should the JTMS be dropped? I agree about the grims but I'd like some suggestions on what should come out.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
How about this?
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Counterbalance
2 Batterskull
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
The count for 2cmc and 3cmc is pretty low though. What can we put in to get that 2cmc count up higher? Also, I still feel like the Grims should be Firespouts: it ups the 3cmc slots and gives us another out against mass swarms. Between swords, firespout, and SFM-BS, it would be enough pre-board to help fight Zoo, Merfolk, and Goblins. I feel like the grims should sit in the board.
I think jace should stay, at least as a 2-off. Card is just too good. I think since you are running counterspell, spell pierce might be unnecessary. Either that or snare can be trimmed. I like playing 9 counters in countertop decks. Usually it's: 4 force, 3 snare, 2 cspell/pierce (this depends on number of 2cc cards to fit cbalance).
It's always late at night before I go to bed/lying in bed where new ideas come to mind. Does this happen to anyone else?
Anyways, I thought of a U/W/B list that could lead to something good:
Creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Spells
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Counterbalance
2 Batterskull
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Tundra
4 Underground Sea
Planeswalkers
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil
Sideboard
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Duress
4 Spell Pierce
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Surgical Extraction
The Lim-Dul's Vault is a peculiar card that for the longest time I have tried to find a home for. It does a few things for this deck:
- Pitch to FoW.
- Re-arrange the top 5 cards of our choosing from groups of 5 to set up an effective counterbalance.
- Find us a card we need, be it a top/Cb we need or removal or what have you.
- Act like a pseudo counterspell when we have a counterbalance out.
Maybe Ensnaring Bridge's small cousin meekstone would have less dissynergy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
Both Mystic and batterskull dodges effect.
EDIT: BTW like Lim-Dûll's Vault suggestion.
I would much rather cast Ancestral Visions than LDV, and I don't want to cast Ancestral Visions. It just seems like LDV is going to be worse than just playing a business spell. Or Ponder.
If you are going to run LDV, drop the Counterspell and just make sure you have cmc 0 through 5 covered.
Don't run Lim-dul's vault. It costs too much mana and kills yourself. It costs 3 mana and a brainstorm if you want to tutor up a counterspell, plus how many life, and if you have the luxury of leaving two mana open, you are probably doing alright without it. If you want this type of effect, run enlightened tutor. It is everything that you wish ldv could be, but cheaper and doesn't cost you life.
This is from actual testing with ldv in previous counter-balance lists when the format was slower and life loss was LESS important.
I need someone to play test this deck concept. Any takers? I would do it myself but I can't seem to get an opportunity to do so.
I will give it a go latter today. i am actually pretty intrested in what this deck can do. I will report back latter tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
liliana is a very intresting card but a lot of the time she did not do anything, well that is unless you count being a three mana removal spell at sorcery speed. that made the mana a lot harder and made you use fetch lands when it was suboptimal. Also the card made you get duals a lot of the time. so all in all the card might as well be dismember
lim-dual is also a card that was really unimpressive. most the time I would rather crack a fetch land to see new cards rather than paying the two mana nessasary to initiate the spell. also you need more things to do in your sfm package. two batterskulls are overkill. I would replace one of them with a sword or something. I am also not sold on the idea of playing counterspell beacuse the card is so slow, and it is sort of clunky.
I would never be happy about cutting Counterspell. The card does a number of things:
1. Costs 2 for Counterbalance
2. Is blue for Force of Will
3. Is relevant early.
4. Stops late-game Hail Mary's, e.g. Natural Order, Elspeth, Jace.
Having the card in your deck just allows you to many more lines of play than you would have without it. Case in point: I don't lose to Hive Mind.
- Pretty much this. Two Counterspells is the perfect amount for late game answer to bombs that CBT can't hit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
Anyways, I've come close to an optimized list. I need to test Snappys before I decide on a final list though.
I just thought I would post the list I used in Nashville. I also posted this list in the Countertop thread, but I figured it's much closer to this thread in design. Also I gave my thoughts on the cards in this deck in the report I link to at the bottom. All feedback and questions are thoroughly welcomed. :-)
4 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Humility
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of the Meek
2 Thopter Foundry
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
3 Jace, the Mindsculptor
5 Islands
2 Plains
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Ancient Den
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Academy Ruins
Sideboard:
3 Spell Pierce
2 Path to Exile
1 Stony Silence
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Counterbalance
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of the Sun and Moon
1 Aura of Silence
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-Tutor-Control
I posted my thoughts on your deck in your thread.
If you're cutting Tops you are doing it wrong.
4 stoneforge mystic
1 batterskull
1 sword of feast and famine/body and mind
4 snapcaster mage
4 sensei's divining top
4 counterbalance
4 brainstorm
1 ponder
1 counterspell
4 spell snare
4 force of will
4 swords to plowshares
3 jace, the mindsculptor
4 tundra
4 misty rainforest
4 flooded strand
4 island
1 plains
4 mishra's factory/wasteland (I personally use factories, but both are clearly good)
The idea behind this list is simple. You want your stoneforges and counterbalance, but you also obviously want your snapcaster mages. How to cram it all in? I'm not sure it can all really fit, but if it can, I think it might be pretty awesome. One thing that would be wonderful in a list like this is V-Clique, but I couldn't fit it. Maybe take out the ponder and the counterspell for 2 V-Clique's, or one of them for a miser? Maybe take out a Jace and a land for 2 V-Clique's? Any ideas? I think the basic body of the deck should work well, and that it has a lot of powerful tools that are good in the current meta. Whether it is better than traditional counterbalance with Goyf, on the one hand, or UW/Esper-Blade on the other, however, I'm not sure.