No more Legacy on the SCG Tour

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

What you asked is how they would know, the answer is anyone buying more than one copy of any card in the same order pretty much tells you what format they bought for. If they buy one sea and two ponders, what is that order for? If they buy a handful of singletons, probable commander. If you take anything away from my post here it's that SCG is full of scumbags.

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Considering SCG long supported legacy and has continually called for reserve list abolishment I'd definitely not call them scum bags. Legacy never would've been what it became if it weren't for them. At the end of the day though they are a business. And legacy events draw less players which means less people at events to buy from/sell to along with the fact that many legacy players don't buy nearly as many cards. It's disappointing that they've come to this conclusion and I hope that scgcon legacy events turn out to be sweet, but this really is probably the right move from a business standpoint

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Considering SCG long supported legacy and has continually called for reserve list abolishment I'd definitely not call them scum bags. Legacy never would've been what it became if it weren't for them. At the end of the day though they are a business. And legacy events draw less players which means less people at events to buy from/sell to along with the fact that many legacy players don't buy nearly as many cards. It's disappointing that they've come to this conclusion and I hope that scgcon legacy events turn out to be sweet, but this really is probably the right move from a business standpoint

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Indeed, I couldn't agree with you more.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

At the end of the day though they are a business.

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Yeah, we let business get away with too much.

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

What you asked is how they would know, the answer is anyone buying more than one copy of any card in the same order pretty much tells you what format they bought for. If they buy one sea and two ponders, what is that order for? If they buy a handful of singletons, probable commander. If you take anything away from my post here it's that SCG is full of scumbags.

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When there is a viable demand and no supply, history has taught us that someone would take up the mantle.

I've never been to an SCG event, and I've been to exactly 1 CFB event. There's my dog in the fight. If a company moves away from it its likely because the alternative is more profitable. I don't fault them for this as much as I may not like it. Its just the way business is. One of two things are happening.
1) If legacy is as strong and popular as we want it to be we wouldn't be having this discussion because it would be thriving and generating income for the event organizers.
2) Or, EVEN IF it IS as strong as we think it is, that doesn't mean it isn't more profitable than other formats that we think are boring or bad. If standard (Oko be thy name) is popular, then as a business its in their best interest to support it to stay afloat. It doesn't matter if we think the format is shit or not. If players bring enough dollars into it, thats the business decision. Done.

To the whole duals going to legacy vs commander thing. I guess I'm a bootlicker if i think that maybe, just maybe, the business that is in business to sell singles and manage tournaments has a grasp on the demographic on their customers and might know where the demand is. I don't have proof of it and i really don't care. Of the formats that play duals there is vintage, legacy, EDH, kitchen table, old school, and I guess cube. How is it that you are certain that legacy is the primary driver of that or any other card? Players need 4 per deck (or at least more than 1) but are there X times as many players in legacy as the others? What about the velocity of purchases? If commander is the hot format and they sell 20 duals to 20 players, thats better than selling 10 duals to 5 legacy players (because snow basics and all that) and thats where the capital and support is going to go. Much as I dislike it that the player base has "spoken" with their wallets and thus that is what the TOs will support.

Or maybe I'm just missing something within this thread. But I don't think I am.

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

Yeah, we let business get away with too much.

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We're talking about Magic the Gathering, not some shady corporation polluting the rivers or selling poison to it's customers. Don't act so entitled that you think people should run events at massive losses just to make a minority of card game players happy. SCG already started that their cons will be the place that they will continue to support legacy. If we want to show them that they are wrong and that legacy is thriving then we need to show up to events and prove everything we say here. At my local level I tried to make the argument that the legacy community was passionate and thriving too and after a month and a half the events quickly dwindled from 20 or so to 8 if we were lucky. And that was in the city that just hosted what may have been the final legacy Grand Prix.

Tldr; if you want SCG to really see that legacy is worth supporting then prove it

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

We're talking about Magic the Gathering, not some shady corporation polluting the rivers or selling poison to it's customers. Don't act so entitled that you think people should run events at massive losses just to make a minority of card game players happy. SCG already started that their cons will be the place that they will continue to support legacy. If we want to show them that they are wrong and that legacy is thriving then we need to show up to events and prove everything we say here. At my local level I tried to make the argument that the legacy community was passionate and thriving too and after a month and a half the events quickly dwindled from 20 or so to 8 if we were lucky. And that was in the city that just hosted what may have been the final legacy Grand Prix.

Tldr; if you want SCG to really see that legacy is worth supporting then prove it

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It’s the other way around, unfortunately. There’s no way for SCG or any national retailer to know what’s going on at “Brick and Mortar Shop X” every Saturday. They need to be the front runner to push the format so that people can play, test and tweak for larger events like an Open.

If the calendar shows six Legacy Opens, then people will just play more Legacy. This is really about the RL and duals. Everything else is really affordable, for the most part.

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Originally Posted by Michael Keller

It’s the other way around, unfortunately. There’s no way for SCG or any national retailer to know what’s going on at “Brick and Mortar Shop X” every Saturday. They need to be the front runner to push the format so that people can play, test and tweak for larger events like an Open.

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Its their job to make money, not provide an event, at a loss, for you to test at.
Thats ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Michael Keller

It’s the other way around, unfortunately. There’s no way for SCG or any national retailer to know what’s going on at “Brick and Mortar Shop X” every Saturday. They need to be the front runner to push the format so that people can play, test and tweak for larger events like an Open.

If the calendar shows six Legacy Opens, then people will just play more Legacy. This is really about the RL and duals. Everything else is really affordable, for the most part.

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If you want Legacy to thrive, you need to take the same approach as the Vintage players have and embrace Magic Online as the primary outlet instead of expecting corportations to do the work for you.

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Originally Posted by itslarryyo

Its their job to make money, not provide an event, at a loss, for you to test at.
Thats ridiculous.

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No, it’s not ridiculous. By any stretch, thanks. If I play competitive Magic, I’m using my LGS as a gateway to test for larger events with people who share a competitive affinity for Legacy. If there are more Legacy Opens or larger Legacy events forthcoming, that means more testing and local event support for Legacy. That’s just fact, friend.

When there’s exponentially fewer Opens, that means less interest overall in a format that offers less high-end reward outside of the LGS where prizes can be much more enticing - but now that they’re gone, showing up *hoping* to hit eight people and win fifteen in credit isn’t my cup of tea.

I’m referring to the fallout from such a decision. Which, wouldn’t you know it, will affect LGS Legacy support. How many Vintage events in the US a year? Right, and how many LGSs that run Vintage events weekly? Thought so. Legacy picked up when SCG picked it up. Stores - slowly - will just drop it in the coming months now that it’s axed.

I defended Legacy for years. I’ve been playing since the start and ten years before that. Look at my join date. That’s 1.5 right there. But I see what’s happening, and unfortunately, no one is competing with SCG for national (or regional) superiority as the premier organizer. It’ll take a miracle to save the format now. I’m cashing out - because the RL - isn’t going anywhere.

Well. This forum is going to die as well

Hopefully not, I just got here!

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Tldr; if you want SCG to really see that legacy is worth supporting then prove it

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You missed where they put expensive legacy cards on sale the weekend before they announced they'd stop supporting legacy.
Or, lol, you bought Ben's explanation that it's ok, because 900 dollar Tabernacles were only part of the sale.

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Originally Posted by Seymour_Asses

Hopefully not, I just got here!

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If you'll keep posting it'll stay alive 😉 I'm sorry for the US legacy scene. Hopefully Europe will survive, glad we have MCM tournaments, which are great. Locally legacy is doing fine here as well, fortunately!

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

Well. This forum is going to die as well

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The Mana Drain seems to still be around, The Source can survive too.

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Originally Posted by bruizar

My fantasy is a tournament setup where a player competes in standard, then day 2 has to compete in Pioneer, then modern, legacy, and finally then vintage, to win the ultimate crown of magic

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Worlds (or whatever the equivalent is called now) would be so much cooler if they made it a longer event with a day for each constructed (or half one year half another or something) so they would get to show off some of the history of the game. Their initial reasons for shunning legacy for card availability is sort of moot now since they are moving towards digital tournaments. Right now eternal magic is almost like the shady backroom of magic that the ivory tower of supported formats pretends doesnt exist.

The funny thing is that the majority of MTG cards ARE Eternal cards. So if all of these cards are just stockpiling into Eternal after they rotate out if Standard, it seems asinine to just pretend like that’s not a problem. Once they rotate out of Standard, these cards enter an abyss with thousands of other cards.

Then what?

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Originally Posted by Michael Keller

The funny thing is that the majority of MTG cards ARE Eternal cards. So if all of these cards are just stockpiling into Eternal after they rotate out if Standard, it seems asinine to just pretend like that’s not a problem. Once they rotate out of Standard, these cards enter an abyss with thousands of other cards.

Then what?

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Well, they rotate into pioneer?

I don't think wizards is too concerned about some dude who played affinity in standard 15-20 years ago worried that now there might not be any format where his old cards are playable (and even then, modern is still a thing, how far back do you want to go?)

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Originally Posted by Airwave

If you'll keep posting it'll stay alive 😉 I'm sorry for the US legacy scene. Hopefully Europe will survive, glad we have MCM tournaments, which are great. Locally legacy is doing fine here as well, fortunately!

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Will do! Hopefully the US scene can come together and organize some bigger tournaments now that SCG has fucked off.

Or you know, we as Magic players could boycott MTG until the reserved list gets axed...but that's like telling crack addicts to stop consuming. :rolleyes: