What guarantee is there that fakes that pass all the tests aren’t already out there?

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Originally Posted by allison_kaas

I've been playing with undetectable fakes at tournies since 95, it's really not that hard (I have one of the original printers that wizards used back in the day, "fell off a truck")

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JESUS HOLCONIUS CHRIST! It's like it's the original thing, or something!

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Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce

JESUS HOLCONIUS CHRIST! It's like it's the original thing, or something!

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Having the correct ink and technique is also needed, there were 'fakes' made back in the day by a Cartamundi employee using the same equipment, but he couldn't get the ink settings correct so they look different, they are called 'dark beta' cards.

There are plenty of proxy events about, which is great.
What is not great is selling fakes for 1000s on Ebay to customers who don't know any better. Ultimately that is what happens, unless someone write proxy on the cards or unless you never trade them.
Otherwise you become part of a chain of fraud, someone likely gets scammed because you traded your proxy for 5 bucks worth of stuff.

Loads of people seem to think they have the right to play Legacy and Vintage at wotc events and not have to pay thousands, and that is wrong- you have the right to play the format, of course. Enter or run a proxy event, they are super fun and you are happy. You can play online too. But if you are saying you want to play in whatever wotc events but don't want to pay for the cards, I don't get it. What wotc events are we talking for Legacy and Vintage? In your local LGS? Run a proxy event unsanctioned. A gp the other side of the world? You can afford the ticket, accommodation and travel, buy the bloody cards.

You want to sleeve up a five dollar lotus at an official wotc event, don't complain when you get DQd- you know the rules.

As for real proxies, if they are that good then someone is getting rich, but you are looking for evidence in cards, and that is obviously unobtainable. What you can see in cards is proxies that are proxies upon inspection.
I have caught proxies in sleeves before, when friends had them and let me look through their deck. The event judge was unsure, they turned out to be small time fakes of small time cards, but the judge could not confirm, as they were unable to test. I have caught them in trade binders too, but there are plenty where you need the loupe etc. Most are not obvious to the naked eye in a sleeve.

How is this debate relevant anymore in the present year? Both formats are dying, travel and big events are all but impossible and people still care whether someone paid thousands of dollars for their genuine™ Wizards-approved piece of cardboard? This sounds very quaint, almost as if a discussion was still embroiled in the 90s moral panic of whether Magic was a satanic game.

Some people can't sleep at night without constant validation that they're a big boy investor who next leveled everybody into getting in good on the ground floor of a sure bet, and not that they spend many thousands of dollars on a children's card game.
Spending money on this stuff at this point is incredibly foolish, so you just gotta be the fool and be okay with that.
Otherwise you just end up rolling around sobbing "but mah investment!" while the rest of us just play the game.

Covid notwithstanding legacy is about to be as dead IRL as vintage. Duals and RL underwent a gigantic spike, we are at a point where 2 duals are more expensive than the rest of the 58 cards in your deck. Either the RL will be dissolved eventually with all the bullshit that goes with it or all tournament formats with RL card will die a slow, but inevitable death.

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Originally Posted by PirateKing

Some people can't sleep at night without constant validation that they're a big boy investor who next leveled everybody into getting in good on the ground floor of a sure bet, and not that they spend many thousands of dollars on a children's card game.
Spending money on this stuff at this point is incredibly foolish, so you just gotta be the fool and be okay with that.
Otherwise you just end up rolling around sobbing "but mah investment!" while the rest of us just play the game.

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For real, just sell the fakes and laugh

Little off topic, but:

F for Fake

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Originally Posted by allison_kaas

For real, just sell the fakes and laugh

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I'm kinda surprised you can still find buyers tbh