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The only problem I would see with gigapede though is that once the deck gets rolling(gets like 5 land) it doesn't need a quick win because it has man lands and at worst case it casts roar of the wurm. Also gigapede is just as fast as roar of the wurm and as long as you can kill them you are gonna win eventually. considerign that only ld will work against you.
Maybe a couple copys of rude awakening? Random thinking Mesmeric Orb and Battlefield Scrounger Zvi tech for you. I would love to see this deck become tier 1 who ever made it i tilt my hat to you..
my 2 cents:
where are
-crop rotation
-living wish?
both useless? just an idea..
Crop Rotation seems like a must to me. Glacial Chasm too. Don't pay upkeep, attack, Life it back. You're invulnerable that way. And Rotation simply lets you tutor for stuff, the deck has way too inconsistent draws, it relies on Maze of Ith to control the combat and on Rishadan Ports to disrupt. It really needs more than 4 of each. It's also very vulnerable to Needle, especially the Maze. I've had no problems whatsoever with it on MWS with FS since I just Needle Maze and fly over for the win.
If you're going to run an effect of that sort, run the original - Diamond Valley - and get full value out of your Factories & Monasteries. It also makes a case for Crop Rotation, as that allows you to get exactly the land you need, when you need it, making Chasm a viable silver bullet option. Why in the name of all that's unholy would you not run Riftstone Portal and turn all your lands into Savannah-plus? Neat idea, now you just need to find a way to not lose to combo....Quote:
Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living
While you are doing that I will have already invented cold fussion, solved world hunger, and will have traveled faster than the speed of light.Quote:
Originally Posted by scrumdogg
He played it again today, on a 102 man tourney (hey, our 1/2-yearly local tourney was the 2nd biggest Legacy tourney of all time in Germany after National Legacy Champs). Round 1 he has beaten 2-Land Belcher (!!!). Yes, 2-Land Belcher.Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilver
I don't know how he has done it. Later in the tourney he lost really close to the 2nd 2-land Belcher of the Tourney. Only a topdecked LED made it a 2-1 for Belcher (the first game won was: Land Exploration Factory go - Spoils for 18 go - Attack gg :D). Then one fast Combo and an evil topdecked LED before Disk was untapped. Another game was lost to SB Blood Moon Gobbos and he made a 5-2 finish.
To the suggestions:
- Riftstone Portal: Great suggestion. They will be added.
- Glacial Chasm: It could work, but it is really slow and it is absolutely dead without Loam.
Gigapede: Sounds really good, but unlike Roar you can't cast it turn 2 with a Manabond.
Crucible: It doesn't work in the deck. A Non-land card is to this deck like a Non-Goblin card to Gobbos. It weakens your engine.
Crop Rotation: Same as Crucible, maybe they can work with Chasm. It is nice that they can tutor a Tabernacle or Ring if you really need them. But each of these cards will weaken Manabond, Dredges and Mulch.
Special: Note the savage Synergy of Geddon - Tabernacle - go.
This entire deck is dead without Loam. Just include the damn card and not make your aggro matchup so reliant on shitty lands like Maze of Ith.Quote:
Glacial Chasm: It could work, but it is really slow and it is absolutely dead without Loam.
Would that also refer to Aether Vial or Umezawa's Jitte? I see this as the same thing in that retrospect. Honestly, your argument against it is terrible. Somehow Life from the Loam is enough to sustain the entire deck and everything is all good with just that. It's bullshit. Why not cut Explorations? They aren't lands!!! omg!!!. Sarcasm aside, this deck throws half of it into the graveyard, and you don't use the sole card to abuse that fucking graveyard. Weaken your engine? There's the possibility of milling it and not getting that 3 land Loam. If you don't have more than 3 lands in the graveyard anyway, something is off. I think for that slight drawback it's worth it to be able to play your entire deck from the yard.Quote:
Crucible: It doesn't work in the deck. A Non-land card is to this deck like a Non-Goblin card to Gobbos. It weakens your engine.
I don't know where I'm going with this really, but basically if there isn't a justified argument against adding Crucible I will spam this thread until it is in a decklist. And I will hand out bannings.
Have you considered Firestorm at all? It's great in the early game (go one mana!) and thrashes on Goblins something fierce.
What about Clear the Land?
Card type: Sorcery
Casting cost: 2G
Card text: Each player reveals the top five cards of his or her library, puts into play tapped all land cards revealed this way, and removes the rest from the game.
Maybe not since it helps opponents but it could be pretty bomb tastic.
Ill be playing my build with Cruicible. Dont worry Di.
I dunno about Clear the Land because it can accelerate your opponent as well and my opinion on chasm is that if you have life it would be good but if you don't draw into it you won't be in good shape which is where crop rotation shines because chasm could be a 1 of just as barbarian ring and tabernacle can be tutored up.
Clear the Land removes LftL, Roars and gives your opponent the chance to compensate the Port / Wasteland disruption. Therefore Mulch is almost strictly better.
The danger of playing Crucible and Crop Rotation is that it can destroy your game plan. If your starthand is something like 4 Lands, Mana Bond, Crop Rotation and Crucible you will definetely have a problem.
This deck looks pretty awesome. I think Crucible should definately be considered as a two-of, no more than that, but maybe everyone else should test more since you have more experience with the deck. Ray of Revalation for the sideboard, with the Portals, would help against stuff like Blood Moon without having to topdeck into removal. The funny thing I noticed about the Solidarity matchup would be that you would side in 2 Blessings, 3 geddons, and 1 Orb for 4 Maze and 2 Tabernacle, since Orb helps you hit Threshold faster.
Are there any reasons why Burgeoning isn't played in this Deck?
Or give Exploration and Manabond enough speed?
Does anyone have any thoughts on Nether Void? It would significantly improve the combo matchup and should atleast deserve a SB slot if you decide to splash black for it.
@Eldariel - Don't think the Glacial Chasm upkeep works that way - you don't have the option not to pay. Unless I am mistaken you MUST pay, unless you have a way to get rid of it (Zuran Orb, Crop Rotation, etc.)
@ The Rest of You - I have been working on a deck that is somewhat similar to this one, but only somewhat. It contains most of the cards y'all are harping on: Crop Rotation, Z-Orb, Crucible, etc. This is a completely different deck with completely diff set of goals that plays out completely differently. (Completely!) I have also been trying to take the best of my build and this build and make them work together and it is a no-go. Believe me. They don't mix well at all. Them main problem is that Mulch and Manabond tend to throw all these other cards in the graveyard, where they are inaccessible. Even running Regrowth-like cards does not help because unless they wind up in the yard too!
If anyone would like to see my build here I can post it, but I will not spam this thread unless requested. In the mean time, try testing the deck as is - it's a good one! I have managed to get several good ideas for my different build here and am grateful for that.
w00t, another chance for me to quote the Comprehensive rule book.Quote:
Originally Posted by syssc9
So culmitive upkeep allows you to choose not to pay the upkeep cost, and if you don't you sacrifice the card.Quote:
502.13a Cumulative upkeep is a triggered ability that imposes an increasing cost on a permanent. “Cumulative upkeep [cost]” means “At the beginning of your upkeep, put an age counter on this permanent, then sacrifice this permanent unless you pay [cost] for each age counter on it.” If [cost] has choices associated with it, each choice is made separately for each age counter, then either the entire set of costs is paid, or none of them is paid. Partial payments aren’t allowed.
So you can sacrifice the Glacial Chasm every turn and then replay it (with Loam or crucible) without ever having to pay life. If you have out exploration
then you can do it every turn indefinatly without ever losing life.
Edit: Also I belive there is nothing in the game that ever forces you to tap lands for mana and pay a cost of some type (ok mindslaver makes you do stuff like that against your will but it is your opponent making those desicions, not the game). There are cards that may impose a stiff penalty (such as in the eye of chaos countering your spell if you don't pay, or trinisphere that simply won't allow you to play the spell if you don't pay), but there is nothing in the game I believe that forces you to tap your lands for mana if you don't want to. More broadly there is nothing in the game that can force you to play an activated ability or to play a spell if you don't want to. The game rules have no way of checking how much potential mana you can produce, and thus couldn't force you to pay for something cause the game rules don't know if you can or not.
@ quicksilver - thanks for the clarification. I guess I must be keying on the idea that some cards give you the option of doing or not doing something by use of the word "may." Seems that does not apply in cases like this one. Makes the use of the Chasm much easier. Again - thanks.
The rest of my post still holds - Trying to a mix a whole bunch of non-land cards into Tao's build just does not seem to work well, as these "other" cards wind up in the yard more often than not, due to the action of Manabond and Mulch.
Power SinkQuote:
Originally Posted by quicksilver
Oracle text: Counter target spell unless its controller pays X. If he or she doesn’t, that player taps all lands he or she controls and empties his or her mana pool.
:tongue:
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It seems like this deck is just begging for a nice set of e tutors/crop rotations to fetch out all the singletons
Lands-
Tabernacle
Glacial Chasm
Maze of Ith
the whole freaking deck
Enchantments/Artifacts
Crucible (one more reason to run at least one of these)
Exploration
Zuran Orb
Limited Resources
a range of sideboard cards like Trinisphere, Rule of Law, Ghostly Prison, Worship etc
I think this is a very interesting deck. Is anyone planning on running it at The Mana Leak Open?? :eek: