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Prices are already climbing on some of the legacy staples. Gencon has the Legacy championship in about 3 weeks so Lions Eye Diamonds have jumped from $7 to $11. I bought a set of Chrome Moxes for $25 at the beginning of this year and I now see them at about $40.This new development will start the speculators on buying some of the top Legacy cards also. Should be interesting to watch.
Mike
Pro's arn't going to build their decks... SIMPLE!
Many fourms have been working for years to build great decks, ergo they will rip lists off The Source/Port from Extended/Not do well
yes, yes, yes, there will be someone with an original list that top eights, but come on, they know people at the source and the mana drain have been making legacy lists for what like 4 years? why would they not come here to find a list to start with.
Although it might be fun to see how they twike our decks to make the better/metagame them/ruin them?
Winning Worlds is the single most significant honor in Magic (second maybe to winning the Invitational or being Kai/Finkel). It also gets you automatic invites to everything including the Invitational, a bunch of money and helps your Nationals team out (I believe). In other words, it's the event the qualified pros are most likely to test for. Now, it's more likely the pros will focus on the T2 or drafting than Legacy, since Legacy comes last and it can be the least important to top-eighting for high end players, but it's still significant. For comparison, people like CF's Domain Zoo deck last year defined the Extended season.Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon_demon1
You can expect deckbuilders like these to turn their hand towards Legacy:
Miharo, Shouta, Mori, Maher, Morita, Oiso, the Ruels, Wafo-Tapa, Herberholz are all qualified
And they bring Kenji, Itaru, and Shimizu
The only way a Legacy PTQ could ever work is if the format had a greater playerbase. The only way to create such a playerbase, methinks, would be to make packs with reprints of important, but hard to get cards that are only legal in Legacy. Mebbe put an L symbol on all of them to denot their legality.
Having a ptq season would increase the player base. For example I wouldn't play block were it not for the ptq season and neither would most of my friends. Creating a legacy ptq season would attract a lot of people to the format. The reason why it won't happen is because prices of cards would skyrocket. This really shouldn't be a problem though since standard cards are always overpriced. If ravnica weren't rotating out soon most shocklands would still be 12-15 dollars which is just a little cheaper than the price of nonblue duals. Introducing a legacy ptq season would only mean that force of wills and dual lands jump in price a bit and a few cards like imperial recruiter and sea drake becoming very expensive for the format.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight
Heh. I just remembered this little piece: sorry, Raph, you're gonna have to deal with it.
Ask the Pro - May 26, 2007
Q: I was wondering what pros think of the Eternal formats, especially Legacy. Do you see it as a "good" format or do you not care about it? Do you keep up with what is happening in Legacy and Vintage? I would like to know because Wizards is giving Legacy a little push with the few Grand Prix, but there hasn't been a Pro Tour for any Eternal format. Would you like to see an Eternal Pro Tour?
- Simon
A: Hi Simon,
Pros are basically interested in anything that is played competitively. If Wizards announces a Vintage Pro Tour tomorrow, pros will try to catch up with everything they have missed. I don't think that will ever happen, unless Wizards wants pros to spend all the money they win from the tournaments to dealers for Power 9 cards. There are very few pro players who play Vintage seriously. Like any other format, it takes a lot of preparation to master, and for no real reward. They'd rather put their efforts into the next Pro Tour's Constructed format.
Legacy is a wide format, and by the time you read this answer, Grand Prix–Columbus will be in the books, and we'll know the impact Flash decks had. Legacy doesn't exactly have the financial constraint Vintage has. Dual lands are a lot easier to get a hold of than Moxen and you'll probably find people around you who won't need the cards you'll want to play (so they can lend them to you) ... once again, unlike Moxen. And even then, they are many very competitive decks that don't cost a thing, like Goblins for example.
A Grand Prix once in a while isn't that a big deal, but a Pro Tour would be. Not being able to playtest on Magic Online would probably be a real issue.
I don't play either format. I do read a few things about both, just to keep track of what's going on, more because it's entertaining than because I have a real interest in them. Would I like to see a Pro Tour in any of these formats? Honestly? Not really!
I'm not even gonna lie about this, I really want to see if the Japanese have anything up their sleeves.
Ruel and others have shown up at GPs, but as far as I know, not too many, if any of the japanese pros have gone to the GPs.
I just hope Richard Feldman either qualifies or has a friend who qualifies for Worlds, because I want to see him design another Legacy deck. I enjoy his work so much I'll now be going to masturbate over his SCG archive. Again.
point made.
I was just on MWS, and testing against a pro going to worlds (goes by the name Hiroshima)
The three decks he was thinking of playing...
U/G/w Threshold
U/G Madness (slight changed from Roland Chang's version, as he admitted)
High Tide Combo
Guys this is pathetic, Thresh is the ONLY deck worth actually playing, i really wanted to see a pro pick up TES, or CRET Belcher, or Pox, or something and break it, i didn't want to see them use our lists...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon_demon1
Whats really pathetic is that madness is trash and so is solidarity atm and threshold with white splash is inferior to the red splash. IMO TES, red thresh, and aluren are really great choices.
Don't expect the pros to innovate a lot. Their focus is on standard and draft, for legacy most of them will probably just pick up Goblins because that's "the best deck".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil
Tehy are reprinting old amazing cards...
wounder WHY they might want to reprint FoW???
LOOK!!!!
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...article072007a
I'd be really surprised if professional players picked a deck that was DOA against good combo and likely to be looking in the mirror a lot of the time. Flash-Hulk was a different story because it was only DOA against Fish, and then only slightly so, and Fish was not going to win GP Columbus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Moon FTW
I'm betting the Pros will lean really heavily towards a fast deck that they can fit 4 Force of Will into, that probably means Threshold.
While I hope I get to eat my words in a few months time, I really don't think we'll see anything spectacular coming out of this event. I don't expect a single new deck. I do, however, expect a couple of nice innovations on current decks. One of the things we've seen the Japanese do really well in recent years is take a good, established deck, do something crazy to it, and rock the format. Barring the format rocking, the pros are usually good at tweaking those last four or five cards and coming up with a truly close-to-optimal decklist. I'd expect that to happen at this event, but I wouldn't expect anything new and big.
Yes, and I played against a Level 17 judge the other day who told me he can tap my lands with Icy Manipulator in response to me playing spells to counter them.Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon_demon1
Expect the pros to test on their own. They have a strong investment in the format (as per my previous post) since they want to win worlds, and are likely to take it seriously. Even though a lot of pros simply played BDW last year, a lot also did some really innovative work.
It depends on just how much time pros spend learning about Legacy.
If they take a lot of time, I expect they would realize the best built fast combo decks have strategic superiority over and a very favorable matchup versus Goblins and there won't be too much goblins in the tournament.
In such a case, my guess would be a lot of the metagame would be composed of Fairie Stompy, Fish, Thresh or fast combo as they have the very few unfavorable matchups and good matchups against all the other commonly played decks in the format.
And assuming that, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the deck that has a good matchup versus Fairie Stompy, Thresh and Fish decks, a decent combo matchup and no really bad matchups, like Vodka Pox running 3 MD Tabernacle and 2 MD Trini/Chalice places some people into the top 8.
But that might just be wishful thinking.
I don't think that term means what you think it means. </Inigo Montoya>Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
Anyway, all I'm saying is don't count the pros out.
Pros very, very rarely just pop new decks out of thin air in any format that's been at all explored. What they do very well is to tweak and innovate the existing strongest decks, or take a deck that's overlooked as tier 3 or even lower and make it strong. I don't expect Worlds to be the source of new decks, but I do expect there to be some new drift towards consensus about the best builds of the top decks as we see what gets cut and what remains in Gro, Goblins, and a handful of other tier 1-2's.
I'm curious as to what pros can do with combo, as a good combo player myself. If a pro top 8's with TES or Belcher they're probably very good, since most pros generally don't play extremely challenging decks for several hours.
For you to make that claim, you have to know what I think strategic superiority means in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anusien
I take strategic superiority to mean that two decks try to achieve the same thing (in this case, both goblins and fast combo aim to win the game quickly rather than try to control the board like control and fish decks try to do), but one does it in a quicker less disruptable manner than the other.
It is up for debate whether fast combo does indeed have strategic superiority over goblins. But atleast from my experience and encounters with both decks, fast combo not only wins faster than goblins, but is less prone to, and more easily recovers from hate cards due to it's draw and tutoring. Fast combo is much more likely to be able to tutor/draw into bounce to send back Chalice or Trinisphere than Goblins is to randomly topdeck the disenchant or wasteland needed to destroy Ghostly Prison and Tabernacle of Pendral Vale.
That's why I believe combo has strategic superiority to goblins.