I would rather play Cloud of Faeries because it cycles.
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I would rather play Cloud of Faeries because it cycles.
Composite Golem (if you choose to play it) can be tutored for by Fierce Empath though, so it gives you a way to consistently generate mana you can spend on non-creature spells.
I think that creature based win is still superior because it takes up minimal slots in the deck, while still allowing you to tutor your pieces. It makes the deck a little more consistent.
Once you play a grozoth (fetch grozoth#2 and Myojin of Life's Web) sac grozoth to play myojinr emove the counter and play everything in your hand it's 21 mana just from the 2 grozoth and the Myojin. This is probably the simplest way to gain enough mana for maga, and it's tutorable with empath.
you dont even need maga. With at least red Myojin its a nice clock. If there is Maga, nice.
Storm Combo... Not the answer. It just doesn't have synergy with Food Chain and is clunky, clashing with the interaction with the rest of the deck.
hmm... will it be possible to play nineteen spells in one turn and then kill with storm entity as a backup to maga? Grozoth and Myojin of Life's Web makes a hell lot of good nine drops, unfortunately, the spirit of the night are legendary, so they will just be killed. When a deck like this got so much tutors, business spells and ways to generate mana (once food chain is out) we do need a good hard-to-disrupt kill. Tendrils is nice, but as you say, it doesn't have any synergy with the rest of the deck. if doubling cube could be played with composite golem (that's 2 for the cube, 3 for activation), you could have a doubled mana pool for any use. I know it's pretty hard to do, as Doubling Cube can't be tutored. Am I missing something?
You could play nineteen spells in one turn for a 20/20 haste. It should be noted that nineteen spells is a lot, it would be easier to just use the Myojin or Maga for twenty. The easiest way to get a storm of twenty that I can see, is to chain into a Myojin of Seeing Winds, activating it, and using the drawn cards to feed to each other into Storm Entity.
It seems like Momir Vig, Simic Visionary could have a place in a deck like this since he's not bad on his own, and absurd in the presence of Root Maze. Of course, he does want to be played with Coiling Oracle.
Drift of Phantasms could work as a tutor, but it's slow.
Some ideas. I've had a little bit of trouble with drawing into nothing even after I've started going off, and so I think a singleton that helps ensure a more reliable combo would be helpful. Enter Primordial Sage. Tutorable off of Fierce Empath, draws a ton more cards, and is just generally a pain for your opponent.
SEcondly, I've had problems with not drawing into Food Chain or tutors not being fast enough. Ashnod's Altar, while not as good, does give you some kind of engine to cyle through creatures, especially if you add Cloud of Faeries to get colored mana.
I think some mechanism of tutoring for Food Chain is optimal, but there isn't much of one available that's not really slow. Unless you try something like Intuition.
Food for thoughts, will Sneak Attack fit into this deck? In my opinion a R/G hybrid would be extremely powerful...
It will solve the problem of not drawing or having Food Chain in your opening hand. You could use Sneak Attack to to sneak out ALL the uncastable creatures on your hand. Perhaps an alternative win condition.
Hoped that helps :)
The mana base isn't really set up for it, although Sneak Attack/Grozoth/Zodiac Dragon is spiffy.Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaBorgerman
You dont play rites, like Seething Song or something like that. So i dont think that Sneak Attack ist fast enough.
What about a back up plan? Something you can simply throw out, even if the combo doesnt start cuz of a countered food chain or something like that.
What about Mogg War Marshall? With Food Chain, it becomes a better seething song (costing 1R, instead of 2R).
Also, I like the idea of Zodiac Dragon. . but does anyone even have one?!
What you porpose does not work, Food Chain's cost is to remove the creature, it never hits the graveyard. Zodiac Dragon's or Mogg War Marshal's effects will never trigger.
marshall isnt as amazing as it could have been, but its still pay 1R to cast a creature, and get 3 of one color (for marshall) and 1 of another color (for the cip token) for it.
the idea of foodchaining tokens for 1 mana though led me to:
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
4B
2/2 legendary human wizard
Whenever you play a creature spell, put X 1/1 black Thrull creature tokens into play, where X is that spell's converted mana cost.
When you control seven or more Thrulls, sacrifice Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
so for each creature you'd play with food chaing you'lld get double the mana by sacing all those tokens for 1 mana each.
I'd think Shrieking Drake, Grinning Ignus or Sawtooth Loon might be better fits for the deck. Of course, Maga is still a better victory condition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacul Kamadaka
The thing is that the problem is not mana but draw ! But it's clearly one of the most mana generative card. I'm sorry to say that it's useless.
After a bit of testing yesterday, I came to the conclusion that it was highly inconsistent (you can combo turn 2 or turn 10) but also highly counterspell resistent (trinisphere and chalice help a lot). I played against a bad big blue player and his counterspells (FoW+counterspell+mana leak+stifle) did not make it.
The list I'm on right now :
// Lands // 22
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [5E] City of Brass
3 [WL] Gemstone Mine
3 [BOK] Tendo Ice Bridge
// Creatures // 22
1 [CHK] Myojin of Seeing Winds
4 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
4 [UL] Raven Familiar
4 [DIS] Court Hussar
1 [SC] Fierce Empath
3 [UL] Cloud of Faeries
1 [SOK] Maga, Traitor to Mortals // kill
// Spells // 16
4 [MM] Food Chain
4 [DS] Trinisphere
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
// Sideboard #1
SB: 3 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
SB: 4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 [DIS] Indrik Stomphowler
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [LRW] Shriekmaw
SB: 1 [MR] Duplicant
SB: 1 [CHK] Dosan the Falling Leaf
SB: 1 [TSP] Harmonic Sliver
// Sideboard #2 (stompy transformationnal)
4 SoFI
4 Jitte
3 SoLS
4 Shriekmaw
How much trouble have you had hitting enough mana for maga? The lack of evokers seems like it'd be hard to hit enough mana for Myojin or Maga, and it doesn't seem like it'd be too hard to fizzle with this. I guess Cloud of Faeries does the same job, but it just doesn't seem as effective because that's all it does. For the same cost, shriekmaw nets you one more mana, 1 for 1's your opponent, and saves sb space.
How's 4 Imperial Recruiter/1 Fierce Empath? I've been liking empath a lot, so I'm a little concerned that you only have one.
sweet decklist :) i like the idea of transformational SB, so this deck can at least defend itself with some swords. Undercosted beaters like Negator and Avatar of discord could also do.
94teen@: the idea with 4 imperial recruiter and 1 empath is to get a chain of spells. Rec for rec for rec for rec for empath= fetch a creature with 8cc and play it. The list I'm testing does always win the game on turn 4. That's too slow, but it's pretty consistent. That's because I run the grozoth toolbox instead. That may be a turn slower, but that's way more consistent. Also, if it was possible to play both toolbox and maga, then you got yourself a grozoth eaten to myojin, remove counter, get two 9cc into play, eat all creatures and kill with maga for 27 damage. It's just the problem with Maga, you don't always have him in hand, and the recruiter chain ends up only giving seven mana (fierce empath is not included in the chain this time) and sixteen more mana is needed.
My testing has not been intensive yet, but I noticed several things :Quote:
Originally Posted by 94teen
- empath fetches only 1 creature : blue myojin, I don't need to play several.
- as long as you draw creatures, you generate mana. You don't need that a creature provides +3 or +4 mana, you just need it to be a creature. Cloud is a bit the exception because it cycles when you're digging for your food chain, because it provides +5 manas (untapping 2 2CC lands), because it can be played and then you play food chain and then you start comboing and because it's the best creature after side-transformation
- Imperial Recruiter is a bit everything at the same time : universal creature fetch and also a mana provider when you make the chain recruiter for recruiter, ...
- after drawing a lot you have a hand full of lands and artifacts, that's an additionnal reason why mox diamond is so much better than chrome mox. Then the moxen provide coloured mana.
- dig the more you can on creatures and only after fetch for the creatures with recruiter. If you start fetching for the creature, then you remove creatures from your deck.
- chalices are good for playing cheap permanents before cracking the myojin's counter.
- finally sometimes, I was short on maga's mana, but I more felt that I was short on draw (or bad draw) than short on mana.
The idea of playing 11 equipments is that my beaters are too weak to make the game and that I need 1 equipement into play if I want to win. Adding beaters is probably not the way to go because they would be too lonely.Quote:
sweet decklist :) i like the idea of transformational SB, so this deck can at least defend itself with some swords. Undercosted beaters like Negator and Avatar of discord could also do.