Wouldn't any other normal (non-Unhinged) Island in foil work in this case? Why specifically Snow-Covered?
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Wouldn't any other normal (non-Unhinged) Island in foil work in this case? Why specifically Snow-Covered?
Because I can tell other poeple that I did it for that Predict-thingy and it wasn't about the prize. Also I actually like that picture.
So I went to a 10 proxy Legacy tournament in Sofia, my first tournament (not only legacy) ever, with Solidarity of course. I used the following decklist, without proxies 8) :
Maindeck:
14 Island
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
4 High Tide
4 Reset
4 Opt
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
4 Remand
4 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
3 Turnabout
3 Meditate
2 Flash of Insight
2 Brain Freeze
Sideboard:
1 Brain Freeze
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Stifle
1 Rebuild
2 Twincast
3 Echoing Truth
3 Wipe Away (I didn't see even one worthy target for this o_O)
1 Hurkyl's Recall (I expected some Affinity, and even got paired against one)
I did a lot of thinking about the last card in the Sideboard. I wanted to play a Gaea's Blessing in that slot against Painter Stone, but did the right choice, as there was none of the combo whole day long.
After waiting 2 hours to open the club where the event was going to be held, at last me and my friends were able to get inside. I wasn't expecting a lot of people, maybe something in the lines of 12 to 14. There were 25 people. That was nice for a first time legacy tournament (legacy is not big here in Bulgaria). After writing down the decklists, the actual games started.
Match 1: vs Imperial Aluren
Game 1:
I don't remember who won the die roll, but I started after a mulligan to 6 and kept a solid hand. I had no idea what I was playing against, as there were only random duals and fetches across the table. On turn 2 my opponent tried to play a proxied Imperial Recruiter for 1R instead of 2R, which was quickly fixed. At that moment I knew what I was playing against, unlike my opponent who was staring at my ominous untapped islands. When he resolved the Recruiter a turn later he found another one, and with it some other random irrelevant creature. The notes for my life total show a trajectory of 20-19-17-15-11-10 (fetch). This is by no means something that bothers my gameplan and I off him on 5+ islands with Stroke kill.
Game 2:
My opponent boarded some cards (I presumed discard). I started with 7 cards without any countermagic, asI expected to play against heavy discard. Instead I was punished by turn 2 Wall of Roots, turn 3 Aluren.
Game 3:
I got the sudden idea of swapping a Cunning Wish for a Stifle, as it has a chance to stop his combo or give me some time if used on an early fetchland. I started, keeping the first 7. Now this game I had to go through lots of discard. My opponent started with turn 1 Duress, taking out a Brain Freeze, and continued with a Cabal Therapy on the following turn, hitting 2 Resets. That was followed by an Imperial Recruiter fetching Eternal Witness, which got Remanded. When he tried to replay the witness it got a hardcast FoW. And after all of that, he played another therapy, hitting something again. In the meantime his team of small men was chopping my life total away. When he tried to play his third Therapy some time after that my position was the following: I was at 4 life, with 6 Islands and a fetchland, and a Fow and Brainstorm in hand. I played the Brainstorm, drawing land, Meditate, cantrip. I cracked the fetch to remove the land and FoW from the top of my deck and proceeded to play Meditate, drawing Reset, High Tide, Meditate, Land. I comboed off easily from there. The poor guy couldn't believe I went off only from a mere Brainstorm.
Result: 2:1 games, 1:0 matches
Match 2: vs UWbg Cunning Landstill
Game 1:
Strangely, before the start of the game my opponent tried to teach me it was better to go off in my turn against him (!?). Whatever. I won the die roll and started, keeping my first 7. The dude played a Factory on turn 2 and started beating me down with it. Some time after that, when we both were on 5 lands he tried an EOT Cunning Wish, tapping himself out completely. I responded with Tide, he FoW'd, I FoW'd back, pitching Reset, and decked him with Brain Freeze + Remand. Before the dude scooped, I noticed some of the cards in his grave, namely Stifle, which scared me a little. Strange, I expected the game against Landstill to take some time, knowing that the two most latemage-oriented decks in legacy are playing.
I was expecting fighting through permanent hate like Meddling Mage and Rule of Law/Arcane Laboratory, so I boarded: -1 High Tide, -1 Impulse, -2 Opt, +2 Twincast, +2 Wipe Away. I started 2nd, keeping a hand of 5 lands, High Tide and FoW. The first play of the game was a turn 2 Goyf, which got Forced, pitching the newly drawn card, because I needed more time to setup against this kind of deck. My opponend played a Landstill on the following turn, which I gladly let resolve. I played land after land, and a raging Factory was lowering my life total. I broke the Landstill at some point, setting up with a Flash of Insight. The next turn I went down to 6 life, and there was a Factory and a thresholded Monastery on the other side of the table. It was time. I had 7 islands in play. I resolved a tide, and tried a Meditate, which got hit by a Counterspell. I tried a Turnabout on myself, which got FoW'd, to which I responded with a FoW of myself, which got hit by yet another FoW. After flashing and finding nothing of relevance, I scooped in the face of lethal damage.
Game 3:
As I saw no permanent hate, but a fater clock, I got a Tide and an Opt back, taking out the bounce. The third game was also very different form a typical Landstill game. I started with fetch, crack go, trying to avoid Stifle. The slowest legacy deck started imitating aggro with 2 Tarmogoyfs and 2 Manlands. I was forced to try to go off on 5 island. Here I made a mistake. The dude played a Brainstorm, which I let resolve. If I had tried to go off at this point, he would have lost, as the only relevant card in his hand was an Extirpate. The other mistake was the same I made in game 2, I tried to go off at the beginning of the combat phase, not waiting for him to use his mana on the manlands. Absolutely horrible mistake from me, 2 times in a row. Oh well, I will know better next time. Instead I flashbacked a Flash of Insight, finding High Tide, which I resolved, and tried Turnabout. In response, my Tides got Extirpated and the Turnabout got a Coutnerspell.
Result: 3:3 games, 1:1 matches
Match 3: vs Dredge
Game 1:
And there was my first (and only) truly negative matchup for the day. I won the die roll and kept my starting 7. My opponent started with a Cabal Therapy targeting himself, which I logically countered, as this was shouting he had no other discard outlets. The game took some time, with me drawing little land and relevant cards. Eventually my opponent got 3 of his 12 lands and played a Stinkweed Imp, which I should have Remanded, but let resolve instead. This was a mistake, as he Darkblasted it, and started a dredge chain from there. I used my Remand on a flashbacked Deep Analysis, but the replay of the first turn therapy got my Tide and the killed me before I could do anything relevant.
Game 2:
I boarded out 2 Flash of Insight and 2 Cunning Wish for 3 Echoing Truth and a Turnabout. I mulled to 6 and kept a solid 6 with 2 lands, Echoing truth and a Fow. He started with 2 LEDs, one of which got cracked, and he beat me 2 turns with an Ichorid, then running out of gas. When he started playing again it was too late.
Game 3:
I kept my first 7 and Forced a turn 1 PImp, only to see another one on turn 2, followed by a turn 3 therapy (missing Tide). It was downhill for me from there. He killed me, therapying my Echoing Truth and Counters.
Result: 3:5 games, 1:2 matches
Match 4: vs RBg Gobbos
Game 1:
I lost the die roll and started the game against the strongly demoralized dude, who lost the last two games on turn 1 against my friend playing The Spanish Inquisition. On turn 2 he resolved a Mogg War Marshall, and I was fairly calm. When I untapped on turn 3 I had no land, and Impulsed (in order not to waste time), again finding not land. When I found the third Island some turns later it was already too late.
Game 2:
-1 Cunning Wish, +1 Echoing thruth. My first 7 and the following 6 had no land, and I kept a 5 card hand with FoW and Remand. Sadly, I drew 5 lands in a row and was lacking business spells. As my last chance I played a Meditate with 3 out of my 5 lands, drawing land, land, land, Force. Frowntown. The dude across the table was as stunned as I was, and when leaving the event told me to count this as a 2:0 win for me, leaving me with a "o_O" look on the face.
Result: 5:5 games, 2:2 matches
Match 5: vs Affinity /w Goyf & Bob
Game 1:
I won the die roll again, and my opponent started too slow, beating me with only a 1/1 Worker for the first 4 turns, while I wished for a Hurkyl's Recall. Then he played 2 Goyfs and a Confidant through his Vial, which didn't care a lot for the Recall, and threatened me for lethal. I flipped his deck upside-down as punishment, and tapped his creatures to survive.
Game 2:
-1 Cunning Wish, +1 Hurkyl's Recall. My opponent mulled to 5 and started, playing 3 consecutive Frogmites on one turn, followed by a Plating on the next turn. The next turn he topdecked the needed artifact for lethal damage and I was forced to go off on 3 Islands. My hand was Tide, Tide, Reset, Reset, Turnabout, Meditate, and another card, With I think. The problem was that I was suspecting he was playing a Gaea's Blessing, as he was looking for one before the tournament, and trying to play around it on 3 Islands is not easy. The meditate dread me only a Brain Freeze as business, and I was forced to play all cards in hand, saving only a Turnabout (to prevent the damage), Freezing myself for 8 copies plus the original Brain Freeze. There was a small crowd around us watching the game, and they got a "wtf?" reaction from this play. Cool. :) I started imitating Cephalid Breakfast, and hopefully the last 3 milled cards included a Flash of Insight. Here playing against Blessing got harder, as the only win condition left in my deck was a Cunning Wish, and I needed the Turnabout in my hand for mana. The only card advantage spell in the deck was a Flash of Insight, which I used for 1 after stacking my deck, then flashbacking for 1 again into a chain of cantrips into Cunning Wish. I Recalled his board to save me and Freezed him for lethal with a Wish and 4 blue mana floating ready for the Blessing he never had.
Result: 7:5 games, 3:2 matches
I didn't make t8. I did some play mistakes, but I'm partially happy about them, because I will learn from my mistakes. The deck turned out to be a great meta choice as there was zero Counterbalance. The meta included:
2 Dredge
2 UGr Thrash
1 UGb Thrash
1 Affinity
1 RGB Belcher
1 ANT
1 Spanish Inquisition
1 GBr Gobbos
1 MonoR Burn
1 Geddon Stax
1 Imperial Aluren
1 Glimpse Elves
1 Kobolds!
1 Zuberas!
1 WBUR fish
1 MonoU Merfolk
1 UWgb Cunning Landstill
1 Deadguy Ale
1 Cephalid Breakfast.
The top 8 included the Landstill, the 3 Thrashes, Belcher, ANT, Dredge and Deadguy. The Landstill and Belcher ended up drawing for the prize (wtf?) of 4 signed Force of Will.
Yeah, you should have remanded the Stinkweed not because he could have Dark Blasted it, but just because he could sac him with the Cabal Therapy he played on turn one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky-kun
Anyway, it's a good tournament to be your first one. Keep on rocking with Solidarity and with time and experience the Tides will turn in your favor. :wink:
4 Fetchland isn't enough I think. I'd play at least 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky-kun
Also, I advise you to cut one Wish, because they generally suck in multiples.
He's actually right. A pretty strong strategy is to Turnabout his lands at the end of his turn and then win in your own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky-kun
Fearing stifles, I prefer playing less of them. I never found them lacking in number to support the Brainstorm trick. Also, the life loss is relevant. The number is a personal preference, I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamuth
I didn't have a problem in any of the games I played in the tournament, and like having more ways to get a CB out of the way that are not bad mid combo. (yeah, that is for you, Cryptic Command! :laugh: ). Both of these choices are backed up by personal playtesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamuth
Yeah, that actually is so, but I didn't have the time to setup that in any of the games due to his timely beats. In order to do it, a hand of Tide, Turnabout x2, FoW and some business is needed, and that isn't accomplished very easy. And judging by his reaction when I went in response of his Cunning Wish game 1, he wasn't having this in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamuth
With 6-7 lands in play you can just turnabout their land on the main phase and go off in the end step, fearing only FOW. If they counter it, well, one less counter to worry about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky-kun
So I played in the GPT in Utrecht yesterday, going 6-2 and placing 15th. I was very glad with my results.
Round 1: ANT. I win game 1. He gets a game loss because he handed in his decklist too late.
Round 2: Faerie stompy. I win game 1 because he doesn't find blue. I lose game 2 and 3 to a combination of FoW's and Arcane Labaratory's.
Round 3: Crappy aggro with 12 MB discard. I win 2-1
Round 4: MUC. These were great games. I won game 1 easily. I probably mistaked game 2 by going off too early. I only manage to Freeze his deck away spare 6 cards. He kills me with 3 Sowers while having 1 card left. Game 3 he sees 4 Chalices. I let the ones on 1 and 2 resolve. I counter the 3th (on 3) after getting a crappy Meditate. Some turns later he tries again, and I manage to resolve a Meditate, then Triple-FoW his Chalice and finish with 2 Brain Freeze.
Round 5: Eva Green. I lose. Lame. He wins game 3 with turn 1 Ritual Thoughtseize Hymn, Turn 2 Ritual Hyppie.
Round 6: UGr Tempo Thresh. I win 2-1. I manage to win game 2 thanks to him casting a Ponder.
Round 7 ANT: 2-1 again. He get's pretty unlucky game 3, but I had a solid hand anyway.
Round 8 Goblins: 2-0. I have FoW for Lackey and Remand for Warchief game 1, and game 2 he only has a Port after mulling. I am stuck at 3 land too, but my hand is pretty insane.
I also played the GPT at Utrecht. My report:
Round 1: Goblins
G1: I keep a hand with lots of mana, Meditate and lands. I kill him on turn 4.
G2: He goes Lackey, Thoughtseize my Tide, Port, Turn 4 kill.
G3: He goes Lackey into Ringleader and topdecks black mana on turn 3. He Thoughtseizes my Tide and I lose.
Round 2: Goblins
G1: I keep a hand with a possible turn 3, likely turn 4. He goes, Lackey, Siege-Gang, Piledriver, Turn 3 kill
G2: I kill him on turn 4
G3: I keep 3 Land, Tide, Reset, Meditate, Brainstorm. He goes Lackey into Warchief, 3 Piledriver, kill me on turn 3.
Round 3: Dredge (Lukas Preuss)
G1 he struggles at finding a dredger. I try for the combo in response to a Therapy on turn 5 or 6 and fizzle after having resolved a Meditate without finding an untap. He therapies my Tide, and Dredges a Stinkweed Imp but can't find a second dredger (he's something like 25 cards into his library) or a Moeba, just a single Ichorid in his extraturn. When I get to untap I actually manage to win the game. This game showed exactly why we both were at 0-2, he dredged just crap while I didn't draw good either.
G2 he keeps a hand with 3 Careful Study but can't find a dredger while I don't find a second land in my Brainstorm (good hand aside from being a one-lander). At some point he does find a dredger though and gets to Therapy my hand apart and kill me a turn later.
G3 I keep a one-lander with Disrupt hoping to draw into land with that but he goes DDD and only walks into the Disrupt on turn 3. I find lands number two and three, but he is one turn to fast as I couldn't find a Tide.
0-3 drop.
Screw that.
At least one of the other guys from my car won the whole thing or it would have been an incredible waste of time.
Nice job Bahamuth btw.
- Van
Ok guys, I just started playing this deck after recently switching over from Ichorid and I need some help. My metagame is very combo heavy...I have ANT, Rainbow Tendrils, Spring Tide, Ichorid, Fetchland Tendrils, and the occasional DragonStompy. Life is tough. I am wanting to know what you guys would change or have in your deck and sideboard for these matchups. Oh and Threshold will be entering the meta soon so any help with that would be greatly appreciated!
Pce,
WizardTop
Against ANT, Twincast is strong. Disrupt on their cantrips is really good too.Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardTop
For Ichorid, Echoing Truth helps. Disrupt is good here too.
Echoing Truth is nuts against Dragon Stompy.
For Thresh, you probably need some Wipe Away SB.
Do you guys board in Twincast against Thresh with Spell Snare? Also, Do you usually wait until the turn with lethal damage, or a turn earlier?
Hey guys, sort of new to the whole legacy deal. I am fishing for decks to play, and I have shown interest in this one, dredge and Enchantress. I have a meta filled with Storm based decks, Dreadstill, Affinity and Psychatog and Painter (Those are the most commonly played). Think this deck will do fine in a meta like that? I have been testing all of the decks stated above and this one can win out of nowhere. It's quite hilarious. At the moment, it's down to this versus Enchantress >.> Thoughts? Oh and Twincast is INSANE here. Just thought I'd state the obvious.
I love enchantress, but it really sucks against combo, so it's not a good choice in your meta. I'd say that Ichorid is the best of the 3 decks you wanted to play in your metagame, with solidarity being second.Quote:
Originally Posted by knightinabox
A friend of mine (not a member on this board) borrowed Solidarity from me and piloted it in a small local tournament (see report here). He went second, achieving the same number of match points as the winner, who merely had better opp-scores.
Here's my list (very similar to Van Phanel's with Mystical Tutor SB, but a slightly changed bounce-arsenal):
// Lands
12 [MI] Island (4)
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
// Spells
2 [SC] Brain Freeze
4 [IA] Brainstorm
2 [LRW] Cryptic Command
3 [JU] Cunning Wish
2 [JU] Flash of Insight
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [FE] High Tide (2)
4 [VI] Impulse
3 [TE] Meditate
4 [IN] Opt
3 [RAV] Remand
4 [LG] Reset
3 [US] Turnabout
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Brain Freeze
SB: 1 [TE] Meditate
SB: 1 [US] Turnabout
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 2 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 1 [MI] Mystical Tutor
SB: 1 [UL] Rebuild
SB: 1 [US] Stroke of Genius
SB: 2 [SOK] Twincast
SB: 3 [TSP] Wipe Away
His matchups were:
Match1 vs GW RogueRectorRock 2:0
A weird deck with Loxodon Hierarch, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Academy Rector (for Debtor's Knell, Recurring Nightmare) and other goodies, which won the tournament. My friend was surprised G1 by an unexpected Gaea's Blessing in the maindeck (!!!), but still managed to continue the combo and finished with Stroke.
Match 2 vs Faerie Stompy 0:2
Chalice, FoW and fast beatdown broke his neck (it was a traditional build with CoF and Psionic Blast).
Match 3 vs Train Wreck 2:0
After a serious discard spree in one game he won with 6 Islands on the field and only 2x Tournabout and 1x Meditate in hand (finding Meditate, High Tide, Cunning Wish, Polluted Delta). Solidarity is so awesome! :cool:
Match 4 vs Vial Goblins/gb 2:1
He lost G1 to Lackey. G2 his opponent ran through a mulligan orgy, and in the final game Solidarity's goldfish was just quicker.
The meta all in all was very combo-friendly (no single Thresh player, no Counterbalance, no fast-combo). And in such an unprepared environment Solidarity can still run wild.
Played this list in a small local 14-man Tournament yesterday finishing second with 4-0-1
// Lands
14 Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
// Spells
2 Brain Freeze
3 High Tide
4 Reset
3 Turnabout
3 Force of Will
3 Remand
3 Twincast
1 Cryptic Command
4 Brainstorm
3 Opt
4 Impulse
2 Flash of Insight
3 Meditate
4 Cunning Wish
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Stroke of Genius
SB: 1 High Tide
SB: 1 Meditate
SB: 1 Turnabout
SB: 1 Rebuild
SB: 1 Force of will
SB: 3 Echoing Truth
SB: 3 Disrupt
SB: 3 Wipe Away
Round 1 VS G/W Aggro 2-0
1) Nothing really, Comboed of in face of lethal dmg on turn 4
2) Same as above
Round 2 VS R/B Tendrils - Combo 2-1
1) Manage to go Infinite vs a turn 2 Iggy. Got to love that :tongue:
2) I screw up and tried to combo off in response to a lethal tendrils and realise mid combo that I had boarded out every cunning wish and scoop much to my opponent suprice
3) Wierd match; Im forced to combo off in response to an adnausum with 2 lands in play. Manage to find a Fow but we have both depleted our hands. We play draw go for a few rounds. Soon he starts to go beatdown with a Simian spirit guide and I combo off on 2 lifes with full hand and 8 lands in play
Round 3 VS Fearies 2-1
1) Try to combo off on turn 4 but Tide nr 1 and 2 gets Fow'ed and spellstuttered followed by a daze on my remand...sigh! I top deck a cunning wish next turn though and wish for tide and the win.
2) Fetchland gets stifled, brainstorm gets daze'd and turn 3 he got counterbalance online...
3) He gets stuck on 1 island but beating me with multiple mutavaults. Eot I Wipe Away his only island and manage to combo of through a fow. He was holding stifle, daze and spellstutter sprite :smile:
Round 4 ID with Teammate
Round 5 VS Elves?!? 2-0
Same as round 1 really. Just a bit more shaky cause I had to mulligan both games
Sorry for my very poor gramar, English is not my native language.
I realise that Im not playing the usual decklist but it works for me. Cant imagine playing without a Tide in the board and at least 2 Twincast main.
Interesting list. Did you ever felt you drew too many Wishes? Do you think Twincast makes your deck significantly faster?
Why only 4 Fetch? Did you always find one when Brainstorming?
I play a similar list. At least in what i find to be the important part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamuth
3 Hight Tide in main and 1 to Wish for with the additional Wish in main.
I whould say that the 4'th Wish is needed in the deck, becouse you are more likely to play it to fetch the High Tide on your opponents EOT turn 3 and go for the Win in his turn 4. My testing has convinced me that this is the way to play the deck. It makes it less likely to win with 3 lands in play, but far more likely to win on turn 4.
If Griniggubbe are the one i think he are i can see the point of running a lesser amount of fetch. The gothenburg meta is packed with decks playing stifle. Lots of Team America, Stifle/nought, different versions of landstills and even 1 Goblin deck splashing blue for stifle.
This whould probably be true to any meta with many decks running stifle. Your landdrops are far to important.
I'm not a fan of Twincast, being useful only when comboing off but not finding the missing pieces for the combo. It tend to be a dead card very often when i play it.
Nice list anyway, and nice to see that the solidarity movement still lives. ;)
(and yes, English aint my primary language so there might be quite some misspellings in my text)
Okay, I've been playing with the standard maindeck for awhile in small tournaments as well as random testing, but I'm not sure if I want to start taking this to bigger tournaments. What would you guys bring as a sb for a meta that is a little heavier on storm combo, team america, and ITF? Also, I play with cryptics in the open slots, but should those be twincasts now? This is what I'm thinking:
1 stroke
1 meditate
1 brain freeze
1 rebuild
1 turnabout
1-2 echoing truth
3-4 disrupt
2-3 wipe away
2-4 twincast
beb?
Or do I just play thrash like I always do?
Just play Thresh...
If your meta is really overcrowed with these three decks, you could play
2 Twincast
2 Remand
1 Cryptic C (or 2 and 1 Remand)
in the maindeck.
Note that CC is a very good tool against CB obviously and i would hesitate to cut it completly because of ITF, where their only hope is to land a CB.
Twincast is good against all three decks, its not that strong against ITF, but still okay. So i would at least run two, but not more than three between MD and SB.
Disrupt is good too, because it can be useful against both Storm and TA. So run atleast three (you want to see it early).
I run between 2-3 Hydroblast most of the time, because of Goblins Aggro Loam and Burn eventually.
Echoing Truth is versatile, but doesnt seem to be that good in your meta, 1-2 are okay.
Basically what you said..
I lately found that Hydroblasts are not the best card to board against Goblins (or against anything actually). While they are sometimes faster than you are, the main problem are their sideboarded cards and Hydroblasts help neither against Thoughtseize, nor Chalice (Squad is useless surprisingly often). you might want one Hydroblast sb but likely not more.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlock
A fast clock doesn't bother us and disruption is no problem either, but both together cripple us. Especially against Thoughtseize in their sb I haven't quite found a useful solution yet (Disrupt is entirely useless not only because they're useless against their aggro, but more so because any decent Goblin-player won't play Thoughtseize on turn1).
The trick would be to have a card that helps both against beaters and against disruption. Cryptic Command does that job, but it is rather slow against Goblins.
Against Aggro-Loam more than one Hydroblast sucks as well, as our problem-cards are Chalice or Thoughtseize or Raven's Crime. They rarely can afford to play early Dreams in fear of Remand/ FoW which would remove a huge part of their hand.
Summary: I wouldn't recommend more than one Hydroblast, unless you know that you'll have to play against red hate (Pillar, REB, Scirocco).
Edit:
I can only recommend playing Solidarity, but I might be a little bit biased.Quote:
Originally Posted by MULocke
Don't play more than one Twincast main. While very good against blue decks, you'll sometimes find yourself without a target especially in fast matchups.
These are the cards I build my sideboard from currently (the cards above the first line are Wishtargets and never changed and the cards in the middle are always included, unless I know for sure that I won't need one of them in a certain meta):
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
-------------------------
2 Wipe Away
2 Echoing Truth
1 Twincast
1 Rebuild
1 Mystical Tutor
-------------------------
1 Wipe Away
1 Echoing Truth
1 Repeal
2 Twincast
1 Hydroblast
4 Disrupt
Against combo, Twincast, Disrupt, Mystical Tutor and Hydroblast (if they are red) are useful (in this order) and I tend to board one Truth as well if I suspect Empty the Warrens. Against Team America, Disrupt is amazing and Twincast is useful and against ITF you'll want to board 2-3 Wipe Away and 1-2 Twincast. Boarding against ITF is actually a bit of a guessing game, as your board depends on how many CMC3 cards you expect them to have postboard (only Intuition sometimes, but they might leave in some Deeds to strengthen their CB).
Van Phanel: I play against black decks packing discard very often and have found Divert to be a useful card. Against thoughtsize, cabal therapy and against hymn. Rarely play against goblins packing discard thought, so i don't know if this is the solution on the fast clock + discard strategy they run. But i my world it is a very good strategy against the discard element.
Divert helps against several problems but certainly not against Goblins packing discard. A goblin player who plays discard before turn 3 is stupid (most of the time; of course there are exceptions). Taking a card from our opening hand still gives us three turns to find a replacement and that should be absolutely possible. If they wait until turn 3 or 4 when our hand is nearly ready to combo out, taking a vital combopart away (more often than not a Tide) can be crucial.
The problem with Divert is that it doesn't deal with Duress or early cantrips against combo. Against Burn, Disrupt is better as well (unless they play around it, but then you should have enough time to win anyway). And of course there's Dredge where Disrupt + Remand + FoW (+ Truth) can steal some games while Divert isn't able to stop Careful Study or Breakthrough. Summed up, Disrupt is the more flexible card, but in a meta with lots of decks packing Thoughtseize, Hymn, Sinkhole and/or Vindicate I can see Divert being viable.
- Van
Van Phanel: I agree with you. It took very long time for me to switch disrupt for divert in my board, and if I'm going to an unknown meta i will surely put disrupt in my board instead of divert.
The experience i have with the deck is that if my opponent wait until turn 4 it is most of the time to late for them. Numerous times i just go off and win as a response to their turn 4 hymn/duress/sinkhole.
But the question remains. How to we tackle a fast clock backed up with disruption?
To sum it up: I agree with you, and my choice is very meta-dependent. As a SB always should be.
I played against Solidarity and I must say this deck is the coolest deck ever. I'm wondering what are the bad matchups for the deck?
I've seen it get raced by Turn 1 Lackey (since it has no answers for that except FOW). How does the deck play against opposing Tendril combo? How does it function against discard? I'm guessing the bad MUs will be opposing Tendril combo and countertop, but I'm not sure whether this deck has a good MU against Thresh. I know it does well against Stax since I was the Stax player and my opponent (Solidarity) went turn 3 EOT Wish for Rebuild and proceed to win from there after bouncing Chalice/3Spheres.
I'm curious to know how the deck does in the meta since I'm considering on getting a set of Resets :)
crz87: Look at the first post in this thread. Takes up very good what the bad MU's are.
I have never had any particular problems with tendrils-combo or belcher. FoW and other control elements gives me the time i need.
My biggest problem has always been discard and CB.Trying to find a way around it. Discard + a fast clock is a big problem.
But read the original post in this thread. Goddie, goddie. And start play solidarity, becouse it is by far the most rewarding deck to play. Its fun, it advanced and you have a answer to everything. takes time to learn, so focus on analysing your games. You will need it.
Pretty much. Solidarity originally fell out of favor because of the prevalence of Thresh, specifically CB (although even before CB, Thresh was still a bad matchup, I believe). Also, other, faster, combo decks are generally favored against Solidarity, due to Solidarity's slower clock and somewhat meager protection suite (most Tendrils decks can easily ignore a single FoW/Remand).Quote:
Originally Posted by crz87
However, the biggest issue is that an active CB is pretty hard to win through. Now, it is certainly not impossible. A lot of lists lately have been incorporating things like Cryptic Command to address the CB issue, but no matter what you do, CB will always be problematic for the deck.
It's really ages I'm not playing the deck, but from my testing (before AN) the combo matchup was even. FoW alone can't do much, but the mix of FoW, Remand, Disrupt, Spell Snare, Cryptic Command, Twincast and a turn 4/5 clock is nothing to sneeze at.
Exactly. Many people seem to belive Solidarity loses to faster combo, but it certainly doesn't. I'm quite sure I am about even to both TES and ANT, and I'm favoured against DDFT (which is just because they use Doomsday to win). Twincast is absolutely huge against fast combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenOne
Thresh pre-CB was a bad matchup because of the Meddling Mages they played. Since they don't anymore, I'd say I'm about even against versions with no CB, but still pretty unfavoured against Thresh with CB. Goblins is favourable, but not that much, since they are often very fast and have some nasty SB plans. Discard poses a problem too, but the deck is so random you will sometimes win easily and sometimes be chanceless.
Omg...
Just to build suspense I am going to announce that I believe I have solved solidarity's problems. I am testing right now but will post more here shortly!
mods-I know this isn't a real post but I am sooooo excited!
Didgeridoo isn't an instant.Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
Then I'll make sure not to change channels...For now anyway.
:laugh: Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
Anyways, if you did find this miracle cure, how's testing been going?
Make sure it isn't anything already in permanent waves!
(This is a progressive post I made on the solidarity boards, much of the people are the same so I will just post it here too.)
I hate this to be a post that I make just because it is such a random idea but,
I was just at a small legacy tournament and I was playing FS (Fetchland Soli) and I was looking through my deck while registering. I accidentally had two decree of justice shuffled into the deck. At first I laughed but after second thought I swapped out two cards main for the decrees.
I have been experimenting with all kinds of alternate win cons in the deck and this just seemed crazy enough to work.
It was a horrible success! The card did everything I wanted it to do! It was perfect! I am now rushing off to play test the deck and find the right numbers but I really think I found something!
For example:
1. At eot I drew a card( not broken I know but does EtW draw cards?)
2. On turn four eot I made nine 1/1 solders! I then remanded/orims chanted answers while turning sideways ftw!
3. I hard cast the decree for four angels! when my resets were extirpated(go go turnabout!)
I mean I have played a lot of solidarity and this was the single most fun I have ever had! I also run 4 chants 3 grips but the decrees are the biggest find for me!
Oh and one more thing I also run think twice over peer because the deck needs card advantage!
I will post a list here as soon as I get one it should be soon!
Ok here is the first list!
4 high tide
3 turnabout
3 meditate
2 cunning wish
4 opt
4 force of will
4 brainstorm
2 flash of insight
4 reset
3 impulse
3 remand
1 brain freeze
2 decree of justice
3 think twice
1 tropical island
2 tundra
4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
9 island
side
1 stroke of genius
1 brain freeze
1 meditate
1 twincast
1 turnabout
1 rebuild
3 krosan grip
1 echoing truth
4 orim's chant
1 chain of vapor
Once again here is a list of pros and cons:
Pros:
1. you can now attack for the win
2. no storm count needed
3. choice of leaving creature kill in
4. can be used in combo(not mana efficient but hey)
5. Can be hard cast main phase to get around counterbalance
6. Cant be countered (except stifle)
Cons:
1. Still need abundance of mana
2. Makes creature kill useful.
3. not efficient during combo
4. Opens us up for more non basic land hate.
Well that's all I can say now, I look forward for your input!
Final Edit:
Some deck choices are strange- the think twice are to make up for the card disadvantage force of will gives you and really helps against discard.
I really want the fourth remand due to its time walking and storm doubling ability.
No peer through the depths due to the reveal and the lack of land fetching.
Finally, the orim's chants are for fast combo and thresh and the grips are there for counterbalance and general utility.
I'm not convinced. I've been testing Hunting Pack in the past, and I don't really see why Decree would be much better than that card. Opening yourself up to EE and Deed is certainly not a good idea in my opinion. Your pro's list with my comments:
Pros:
1. you can now attack for the win
I don't see how this is an advantage?
2. no storm count needed
Sure, but this deck hardly ever struggles to reach a high enough storm count. The problems lie elsewhere.
3. choice of leaving creature kill in
Woohoo? If you're able to kill creatures with a cycled Decree, you'll probably be able to win as well.
4. can be used in combo(not mana efficient but hey)
It's certainly not better than Cryptic Command here.
5. Can be hard cast main phase to get around counterbalance
Which would cost at least 6 mana, 7 to get around Daze. You'd have to resolve a Turnabout as well, since you only play one Tundra.
6. Cant be countered (except stifle)
Same as for every other kill we use.
Cons:
2. Makes creature kill useful.
Really an important point. Our goal is to minimize the amount of answers the opponent has for us. You're practially giving the opponent cardadvantage by playing this card.
4. Opens us up for more non basic land hate.
Same holds true as with point 2.
Do you already have some decent test results against CB Thresh?
Ahoi,
but at the other hand it makes the boarding against solidarity hard for the opponents.
Because they can't just board out Wrath, EE, etc. for other disruption!
I like the Idea, but I would rather go for 2x Tundra and no Tropical, because krosan grip has the same effect as wipe away!
regards
TimeTwister
Sorry for the delay, i first want to talk about Hydroblast and the Goblin matchup.
I haven't played High Tide for some time, so my information might be a bit outdated.
The idea behind (atleast) 2 Hydroblast was, that this deck can still lose to a first turn Lackey, so i wanted more answers to it.
To adress Chalice of the Void we already have plenty of bounce / Remand.
Discard can be dealt with Twincast and Disrupt, which both handle the combo matchup aswell.
Concerning the white splash, i agree with Bahamuth here. Another killcondition is not what we are looking for. I i would ever splash a colour it would be either green (prefered) for Krosan Grip or red for Pyroblast.
Not quite, CB creatly diminishes the possibilitys to shape a suitable hand. Simplified, with Wipe Away you asume to have the 'go-off' hand already and just need to bounce their CB.Quote:
I like the Idea, but I would rather go for 2x Tundra and no Tropical, because krosan grip has the same effect as wipe away!
Bahamuth: So... if the deck rarely struggles to get a high enough storm count then the deck should be rarely losing... opening yourself up to ee and deed means that they cannot take these cards out and board in more pain.
I agree with you but the matchups that the deck loses horribly are when the storm count cannot be jacked up. In this case I like the option of vommiting tokens onto the tabke at instant speed.
Decree is very similar to hunting pack except that it is easier to cast and can be hardcast or just cycled with available mana. A huge problem with hunting pack was the double green requirement, decree is only a single white mana.
Deadlock: I am splashing white and green, the white brings chants out of the board to help against counters/combo and the green is for grips.
I'd like to see a build with more of a focus on Twincast and Stroke of Genius in a the main board, their synergy is ridiculous. Build up your mana engine, cast Stroke targeting opponent and leave it on the stack as a Twincast target to be used for your own benefit.
4 Tide
4 Reset
3 Turnabout
4 Brainstorm
4 Opt
4 Impulse
3 Meditate
2 Stroke
3 Twincast
1 Flash of Insight
1 Brainfreeze
2 Remand
3 Cunning Wish
4 FOW
18 Land
SB:
1 Stroke
1 Meditate
1 Brainfreeze
1 Flash of Insight
1 Turnabout
10 Meta
Any thoughts on this? How 'bout my super-secret tech: Tolarian Winds? Does it deserve a mainboard position? I really support seeing this become a competitor again.
The fact that opponents are forced to keep their hate in the mainboard isn't a good argument at all. In whatever case the open slots in his deck would be filled with hate in your version, those slots would've either been filled with hate completely, or not completely in the original version. In the first case it would indeed barely matter, but in the second case it would, since the opponent then still has more hate agains you than against me. I doubt many decks will have trouble boarding cards out for more hate, so the second case seems much more likely.
The problem with Hunting Pack requiring GG wasn't that big at all, since the card needed storm anyway. Just as with Decree, you are probably forced to cast an untapper first anyway (or you cast a Decree for like 2 tokens, woohoo). The problems were rather Wasteland and Moon vulnerability, and not drawing into the Pack in time, which will happen to the Decree version just as much.
Don't play Stroke mainboard. The card is way too mana intensive to be used in many occasions. Also, Tolarian Winds is no good, it gives carddisadvantage, and therefore is probably always bad pre-combo.
"Don't play Stroke mainboard. The card is way too mana intensive to be used in many occasions. Also, Tolarian Winds is no good, it gives carddisadvantage, and therefore is probably always bad pre-combo."
Tolarian Winds is the perfect anti-stall. Ditch all those Islands and FOW for some fresh spells, works pre-combo too when you keep a hand you probably shouldn't have or mulliganed too much. Right now, I use it as a Wish target in the SB. Ditch those discarded spells to feed a big FOI, and even Wish 'em back if necessary. Stroke isn't mana intensive when combined with Twincast "pay X2UUU draw 2X cards"!! Add in the ability to change targets and it's almost broken. However, I understand the points you've made. Whatever the case may be making these changes keeps the same mechanics that Solidarity is supposed to have but changes the flavor a little bit. I think it plays nicely as a huge drawing engine (reminds me of the good old days piloting ProsBloom). Try it out and tweak a deck list before you disregard the idea completely. If the deck ever makes a comeback, it certainly won't be the same old thing. The new version were looking for is gonna be significantly different. Look at what adding black did for goblins and belcher....