I cut the 4th mox for a fetch...it's working well.Quote:
Originally Posted by BackDr0p
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I cut the 4th mox for a fetch...it's working well.Quote:
Originally Posted by BackDr0p
Serenity is not useless at all. People have played it, and most likely it will be seen in sideboards in the future also. First or second turn Serenity guarantees a safe combo next turn versus any chalice/trinisphere-deck. It's more reliable than Spree if there are more than one lock pieces. Serenity may also be a factor in countertop matchups.Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
It's probably not the best option you have, but it's far from useless.
EDIT: If you are playing storm combo in chalice-heavy metagames, Serenity would be one of your best options.
It's hard to take this seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
Infernal Tutor for Serenity Emildn? C'mon unless you already have one in hand it seems awful. Let's discard our hand to search up a card that doesn't win the game.
At probably Emildn's fake account - Serenity won't see play in the future. It's an enchantment in storm combo that doesn't help you win. It requires four slots in the sideboard in a deck that uses a wish board.
-It's white. The worst color in magic. (Orim's Chant is a black card let's be honest).
- It destroys our 12 artifact mana cards. Don't say it's irrelevant or not to play them before. It's not the same as slow combo decks that run 14-16 lands.
- Counterbalance? Because flipping a 2cc card doesn't answer Serenity? It's not a good answer.
Ok guys, maybe you didn't read it correctly:
Emidln just stated that the fake card Backdrop invented needed to be a Sorcery, to be tutorable with Burning Wish. Otherwise, if we didn't need a tutorable card, we could just play Serenity.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
Here lorddotm just doesn't understand what emidln meant to say and points out that Serenity is non-tutorable. Emidln pointed it out in his post though.Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
That's obviously sarcasm. Lorddotm did not understand that he already said that Serenity is not tutorable, and just brings it to a paradox where you tutor it with an hellbent IT.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
Was that difficult to follow?
My point being:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
You cannot disagree about storm decks playing Serenity. It is a strong sideboard card against stax, as I stated. No need to get cocky about it. I have played it myself, and for me it has worked the way I described. It was also seen in emidln's sideboards, not sure about if it's there nowadays. Your arguments are kind of shallow: Sure, Serenity is white. So what? It destroys one of your artifact mana sources, which is hard to see as a bad of a drawback as you make it to be. If the option would be to die to lock pieces, I don't care about that one piece of artifact mana.Quote:
It's probably not the best option you have, but it's far from useless.
EDIT: If you are playing storm combo in chalice-heavy metagames, Serenity would be one of your best options.
As I stated. It's probably not the best option, but an option anyway. And I trust I don't need to stress that different people actually have different kinds of builds of any given decks. Not everybody plays with 100 % your list. I'm sure many do, though. Meta's (should) dictate the lists and individual cards people use. I used Serenity when local meta was full of chalice aggro and affinity. I would play serenity over red blasts any time in such a meta.
I took 2nd in Binghamton today. 40+ people. A report will be up soon, I have some insane plays to share.
Same Jackson dude BAMFQuote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Is it a bad choice to play shock lands instead of duals, I realize duals are obv. better, but my reasoning is that f my entire deck is jap, except 3 cards, would it really hurt that much to play shocks? I mean you take damage from city already? or does it fuck up the ad nauseum with the 2 damage as opposed to 1 or none with real duals?
This isn't purely OCD here, shocks are easier for me to get ahold of...
Bryant, I'm looking forward to read it. I'll be taking TES to a 35+ man tourney this coming Saturday and I'm hoping to do as well as you. Also, will you be present at the November 14th tournament in Vestal?
Note: Finally some activity in the TES thread, the discussion has the tendancy to stall for a while then start up again.
imho you would be better off running forbidden orchard and a undiscovered paradise than running shock lands.
Yeah, you're much better off running the old TES manabase:
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Forbidden Orchard
1 Undiscovered Paradise
Just beware of the extra dmg tokens created can deal to you. Especially after repeated use for cantripping. It's the reason why we replaced them w/ Underground Seas and a Volcanic Island.
If I had beaten Merfolk round 2 I wouldn't of played Tariq White round 3 and would probally of top 8ed as well. I was okay with top 16 and my $12 store credit though since it got me my last foil rite of flame and a crucible for edh.
Could Spell Pierce replace Pryoblast in the board?
This is interesting. But.. is there anything we need to counter that isn't blue? Not to mention, pyro destroys resolved spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
Spell Pierce?
The problem I see with the card is the lack of versatility. It does nothing relevant against Landstill and their most troublesome card against us (Meddling Mage). At least Pyroblast is red (Duh) and can be cast off Rite of Flame and Simian Spirit Guide. Pyroblast is also a guarenteed hard counter/removal against Merfolk for example. The only situation where I would love to see Spell Pierce in my board would be in a meta filled with Dragon Stompy, Stax or any chalice aggro deck for that matter.
Edit: Bryant, you beat me to the punch.
It was an idea since it still stops CB while countering almost everything relevant that blast counters, but also hits Hymn, Chalice, Sphere, and missing out only on Mage, which deathmark hits.
That would mean 5 cards would need to be sided in against blue decks packing hate-bears. Thus, reducing the overall effectiveness of the deck but, improving very difficult MU's. It definitely warrants some testing though.
Ok, i picked the deck again just to give it a try and decide between it and ANT/DDay.
@ Bryant Cock: while i agree on you about SBing out Mysticals against blue decks, against which matchups would you bring Echoing Truth in? Against Stax? Also, you autolose to Rule of Law or to any other Enchantment like Solitary Confinement if you didn't boarded in Echoing Truth (and even with it, 1-ofs seems a bit insufficient). Perhaps we'd have to find a slot that can make Disenchant. Also, all those "Diminishing returns into GARBAGE" should make you think a bit. Even with 2 SSGs which have improved the deck since the last version, DReturns still remains an excessively randomic Timetwister. Still worth a sb slot?
I've been thinking that too. Returns is really a crap shoot, which doesn't work well with combo decks, plus 80% of the time EtW would accomplish the same task (kill with other dude without Tendrils)Quote:
Originally Posted by Piceli89
I've been thinking about testing Cunning Wish. It lets us wish for AdN which is something that would be amazing in this deck. Also, we could wish for Cabal Ritual, Angel's Grace, Echoing Truth, Pyroblast, and others. ZThe casting cost kind of sucks though and would require the dropping of SSG for something that costs less (dare I say tinder wall?)
Mature. Decks that play Gaddeck Teeg/Pillar/Chalice/Enchantments/Random shit. Why would Disenchant be any better? I'll pack it to confinement or rule of law. They see literally 0 play, unless enchantress becomes a DTB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piceli89
I feel like returns is a must, even with a bad day like that, ETW wouldn't have always gotten the job done. IGG doesn't work versus blue.
Cunning Wish just seems terrible. Running a 3cc card in order to play a 5cc card so you can take multiple 3cc damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
lol you don't need to worry about enchantress, even if it does become a DTB. Enchantress doesn't do anything relevant until turn 3... pretty sure you won by now.
Aww, c'mon cook's cool , like he can make good food, you can't disregard that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Piceli89
Also I'm currently thinking about building this again to post in this thread and show how cool I am! My next deck 'll get pimped, so it's hard decision - this or the titty-di elfes . Uhm uhm.
"Make Disenchant"="Destroy target Enchantment or Artifact" in general, not "1W-Instant-Destroy target Enchantment or Artifact". I was referring to the fact that now that Krosan Grip left, a Wishable solution that could work for that purpose shouldn't be that bad. I'm thinking to the M10 3cc white "Disenchant" that makes you gain 4 life. Can also be good against counterbalance, if needed. Please don't answer me "Really? Burning WIsh wouldn't pass through Counterbalance to grab that". urning wish is WAY more likely to pass through CB than how Pyroblast is. Plus, that card can be also good against random problematics. I just don't see the logics behind boarding in 1 Echoing Truth, when you have Deathmarks for hate bears, Sprees for artifacts, but actually lack a Wishable answer for enchantments. And Echoing truth can be only tutored via Mysticals, which, as you say by yourself, suck ass in here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
..As for Cock, pardon. A Lapsus, i guess.
A Freudian one.
This could be applied to Simian Spirit Guide too, in a certain sense. But, as SSG is always useful when starting the combo even if doesn't involve AdN , he wanted to mean that CWish can be as much as versatile in grabbing other things than bombs.Quote:
Running a 3cc card in order to play a 5cc card so you can take multiple 3cc damage.
The problem, lorddotm, is that this deck is already stuck with tutors, and CWish doesn't fit in here just because it's too expensive for the deck, apart from AdNauseam. TES really can't have 3 mana to cast it when it'd be at its greatest function, i.e. opponent's eot. It would probably require a ritual or a mana source in casting it.
I didn't board in Krosan grip unless counterbalance was in the picture. Echoing Truth does a sufficient enough job against enchantments. It also comes in versus Teeg/Cannonist which I run into quite a bit over here. I'll take the versatility. Which is why I run pyroblast, it comes in against Merfolk and Landstill. Not just counterbalance or decks with Enchantments, which are dead in the Northeast U.S.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piceli89
Diminishing Returns often allows you to win games that otherwise are simply unwinnable. I can't tell you the number of times I've made 12-14 goblins and had them quickly removed the next turn. Making goblins is rarely the right move.
It's true that when given to opportunity to win "now", rather than "in the next two attack steps", I would choose the latter. Especially, if I run the risk of my opponent top decking or cantripping into <insert random sweeper> during the following turns.
Personally, I rarely end up going Diminishing Return unless I have no other option (or if my opponent lets mestack my deck, while they're looking the other waypile shuffle). At the moment T.E.S has no other viable/legal options in that slot. It would be awesome to have some sort of calculated approach, like an Ill-Gotten Gains loop FTW.
Edit: I don't know know what I was thinking when I posted this. The color requirements are too intense for TES to support. We need a total of 7 mana + W (for protected IGG piles) for it to even work (1R + BBB + 1U/UU). On top of that, all of the mana has to either come from INS's or ritual effects, since LED's don't really help us out at all in that situation.
That being said Diminishing Returns fills our "All In" option in our SB for now.
"Maybe Doomsday?"
The card in itself is amazing, allowing for a large storm count with a minimal effort. Unfortunately, without Sensei's Divining Top and Meditate in the deck, it loses alot of it's effectiveness. I find that it requires about the same amount of effort as [LED, LED + Tutor/Wish etc.] to set up.
I am considering Doomsday because, there are plenty of piles which are playable with cantrips for immediate use and do not necessarily rely on Top. I mustn't forget to mention the few "Pass The Turn" piles which can create a lethal, 9 storm + Tendrils.
(Click here for Doomsday Piles)
Now the question is: Can doomsday be played in TES, even though it lacks the stability of SDT based combo like NLS and FT/DD Hybrids? Could it have potential?
This whole strikeout thing you're doing is annoying.
Doomsday is a terrible idea without top.
But u still can combo out with Ponder/Brainstorm. U really think Doomsday don't deserves a SB slot?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
The only problem is: Where we can put 1 Meditate/Infernal Contract?
If we could run 30 card sideboards doomsday MIGHT get a spot.
For me it's a lot better than Returns.Quote:
Originally Posted by lebron jim
You're doing it wrong, DDAY sucks in TES ... believe me, I tried it way before you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy
Without sounding like a colossal ass, the reason that Doomsday isn't really a god fit for TES is that by the time you have enough mana and a cantrip to use doomsday, its incredibly likely you can use AdN or IGG to win. Likewise, all the Doomsday->Go piles that would be the sort of last ditch that diminishing returns is require a higher land count than TES offers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy
The reason that Doomsday works without a good Doomsday-Go pile in NLS or FT is that those decks forced themselves to play 4x SDT. SDT, while it isn't the worst card ever, is still bad in TES with lands that not only don't shuffle your deck, but either disappear or do you damage for using them. A secondary issue is that Rite of Flame doesn't cast Doomsday, leaving you with 6 realistic ways of getting there (10 if you don't mind Wish cracking LED and passing the turn, although keep in mind that the cheapest pass the turn pile that doesn't require infinite random shit in your library (i.e. works in a storm deck) requires 3UR the next turn, 2U of which are meditate and won't be able to be paid by your non-existent hand or LEDs. this pile isn't even completely lethal unless you sb out 1x Burning Wish or your opp is at 18 or less life)). Now, Rite of Flame is good in TES and it's great in ANT in general because it can lessen the amount of IMS that you need to flip with AdN.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Kruchkow
To fully abuse the power of Doomsday in a deck you'd want to have something like this:
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Burning Wish
1+ Infernal Tutor
1+ Doomsday
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Meditate
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 Doomsday
SB: 1 Infernal Contract
SB: 1 Deathmark
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
The thing is, once you've gone this far, you might as well just continue building NLS. TES's manabase won't support the SDTs, and you have to litter your maindeck with 4 SDT and 1 Meditate extra just to support Wishable Doomsday if you want it to do anything with it outside of cornercase shit. Your sideboard requiring Doomsday and Infernal Contract to be added is also probably problematic given how tight most TES sideboards are. FWIW, Contract lets you play Doomsday piles with just Burning Wish and 1RBBB available (so Wish + LED) that nets you something like Petal, LED, Rit, IT, Tendrils.
You might also notice that in lists with Doomsday (i.e. NLS or the UBwg hybrid), Doomsday is a tier one win condition. This is due to forced design constraints (like 10+ cantrips) to make it almost as efficient as Ad Nauseam (although you can argue that Ad Nauseam is less efficient in either deck than in TES, which I'd agree with, although efficiency when you're drawing 15+ cards usually don't matter). While there exist Doomsday, go piles that we can use in desperate situations, it's extremely rare (less than 1 in 300 games) where you actually do that thanks to so many cantrips.
Strangely, there was a time when Burning Wish->Doomsday was viable in TES, but I realized the correct piles for that almost immediately before LED and Wish were nerfed to take out the most interesting uses of it. Wish->Doomsday, go was a perfectly fine play with 2 IMS and an LED pre-M10. This is still worse than Diminishing Returns, but it could create a lot of very interesting situations vs aggro that don't involve as much gambling (aggro isn't taking you from 10 to 0 in a single turn) on DReturns or ETW. Only requiring 1RBBB turn 1 and then 5 more (3UR, all of which was playable off LED mana) on your combo turn was very enticing. Mox imprint, land, rite, wish->dday, rit, doomsday, led, go could win the game pre-M10.
Personal Tutor is probably more effective in the sb if you are looking for a bomb next turn but don't want to just bite the bullet and wish for IT to begin with.
So, no one in my meta plays black storm, at all. I decide to trade for all the individual pieces (I already have Dredge, so I had the leds) and sleeve up the deck. (I should stipulate that I'm short the two USeas-I've replaced them with an undiscovered paradise and a forbidden orchard).
So, I sleeve it up, shuffle, and draw my first seven cards.
Led, Led, Land, Land, Chant, Petal, Infernal Tutor
Oh God, I think I'm in love.
lol looks like Cook's luck has a bit of competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by LostButSeeking
Yeah dude, me tooooo! Ilove this fucking deck, I built it for shits, after seeing bryant's deck in the pimp thread... had to jap that shit, didn't think it would be so fun.
Last weekend I played a tournament with the sideboard posted on the first page of this thread. I really missed more artifact and creature removal. For a next tournament I am going to try:
-2 Deathmark
-1 Echoing Truth
-1 Infernal Tutor (I rarely used it)
+1 Shattering Spree
+3 Chain of Vapor (combined creature and enchantment removal)
So a new sideboard would be:
SB:1 Diminishing Returns
SB:1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB:1 Tendrils of Agony
SB:1 Empty the Warrens
SB:1 Grapeshot
SB:1 Duress
SB:3 Pyroblast
SB:3 Chain of Vapor
SB:3 Shattering Spree
What enchantments are you worried about? Counterbalance? Chain isn't going to help here unless you trick them. I don't see this happening. I think deathmark is just better for creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skub
Am I missing something here....how does T.E.S beat belcher? Duress? I'm not suggesting that it can't but I don't know how to play against it
Chant and Duress.Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitpro