[Free Article] Dazed and Confused

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Originally Posted by Rico Suave

I posted this because I think there is a really valuable lesson to take from it. It's a shame that most of the target audience for this article are going to be put off by the tone. It's not a surprise that people don't like being called bad.

The basic concept is to play a stable mana base. For this point, the author in the article is spot on. There is no substitute for playing a healthy mana base and it pays incredible dividends. I could go on about specifics, but it seems this thread has resorted to one giant flame-fest and nobody cares about the actual point anymore, which is unfortunate.

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To paraphrase what a friend of mine often say:

"You may be talking about the best phylosphy there is, but if you yell with your dick in hand no one will ever listen you"

Calling Merfolk bad is like calling all the old Sligh/RDW decks bad. They were deck that preyed on the non-existance of mid-game power in the magic days of old. Nowadays in the modern standard a deck like RDW would just be stupid because there is no wasteland anymore and people play 3/4 lifelink for 3 making your 2/1 for R just bad. WotC even reprinted Lightning bolt for this very reason.

Also, i don't understand the point of "healty manabases". If those "bad manabases" make your deck better against everything but merfolk, i'd gladly play the bad manabase. With modern creatures, there's just no way a deck based on mana-disruption alone can prey on the meta. Merfolk can do this to an extent just for a variety of reasons, but still.

I'd like to congratulate this guy on sounding like more of an elitist prick than any Legacy writer I've ever read. Way to take the high road.

I truly hope that even the most desperate barnacle can understand that his tone is inappropriate.

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Originally Posted by SpikeyMikey

Zoo is a 3 color deck with a less than stable mana base. Especially with Lynx. While Fish and Goblins are both good decks (although I would say moreso Fish than Gobbos), they aren't a large enough portion of the field or a large enough proportion of the top tables for it to be worthwhile running hate decks.

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I really don't think we're on the same page here. I'm not talking about a hate deck.

Also, I think you are mistaken about the presence of Fish/Goblins. Look at the St. Louis 5k - half the top 8 was Merfolk and Goblins.

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Originally Posted by emidln

You can build a 3, 4, even 5 color manabase with an excellent game against those decks. The critical factor is how much of your splash colors you need. If you're trying to get a sorcery-speed spell with WW in its casting cost in a base blue deck against Goblins, you're not going to be very happy with the result. If you situationally need a single splash color, say a red to cast Firespout, or a white to cast Thopter Foundry, your deck is in a much stronger position because the Ports and Wastes won't lock you down as much. In the hypothetical base blue deck, you can keep fetching out basic Islands until you want to cast whatever splash spell you want, then fetch into it and cast it. Further, if you plan on working with 3-4 mana, you need enough basics to actually have 3-4 mana under waste+port, which means 5-6 basics.

For such a manabase, look at the 2nd place GP Chicago list:

2 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
6 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

Brassman played a base blue control deck with a splash into Tarmogoyf+Krosan Grip maindeck and a single mana red splash and a single mana black splash sideboard. The red splash has a larger representation than the black splash given that the matchups he brings in red cards for are likely to be able to waste or otherwise tie down his first red mana after its use. The black splash is primarily against things that will not have mana disruption and thus a single black source is fine.

BrassMan also likely skimped on mana, but he did so due to playing 11 filtering effects, and ran enough mana that a single LD spell is unlikely to stop him from continuing to play filtering effects to grab more lands. Inability to play additional filtering effects to turn those filtering effects into lands because of a light manabase is an extremely common problem for most legacy aggro-control decks.

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Yes, this is an example of a solid mana base.

The key factor which cannot be stressed just by looking at the mana base, however, is that the deck functions as a blue deck. The deck is perfectly comfortable playing Islands and casting its CB, Top, Sower of Temptation, Trinket Mage, Vedalken Shackles, and Spell Snares. The maindeck doesn't even have any red or blue cards so it's basically a U/g deck.

In essence, half of the stability of the deck comes from not just its mana base, but also the spells it is seeking to cast. This gets a little more complicated though.

Nevertheless, you're right in that a deck doesn't have to be strictly 2 colors to do well.

I guess my 23 Islands MUC deck is spot on!

Although I might have to cut some cards to add 7 more islands.

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Originally Posted by Mayk0l

I guess my 23 Islands MUC deck is spot on!

Although I might have to cut some cards to add 7 more islands.

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Force of Will seems like the first card to go. I mean it costs 5 mana.

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Originally Posted by chokin

Force of Will seems like the first card to go. I mean it costs 5 mana.

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That should not be a problem if he yust puts enough islands in there.

Daze returns a land, thus sets you back, and shall therefore be cut for more islands.

(If dazes are played in MUC, haven't seen those in ages)

Also, because there seems to be some confusion amongst people, I did not write this article. I don't agree with a number of things in the article either.

I do, however, believe that the vast majority of Legacy decks I see can be improved by adding a land.

Yes, Rico i agree +1 land to any deck voila instant better. And as Gerry T put it; or you can Continue playing your 18 land three color decks with 4 Wastelands and 8 cantripps.....

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Originally Posted by menace13

Yes, Rico i agree +1 land to any deck voila instant better. And as Gerry T put it; or you can Continue playing your 18 land three color decks with 4 Wastelands and 8 cantripps.....

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He said that to me! And did you notice he didn't reply to my response of "Didn't you play 17 land, 4 Brainstorm, 4 Careful Study in your 2nd place SCG St Louis 5K deck?"

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Originally Posted by overpowered

A poorly constructed article that quickly degenerates into him bashing a format he barely understands.

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This.

Here's my advice:

Suck less at PTQ.
Play Legacy for more than 0 days.
Learn to wear a shirt. Popped white striped shirt with a black undershirt?
Learn to set an alarm clock.

It's like talking to a 5-year old. Learn to dress yourself and wake up in the morning, and suck less at Magic.

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Originally Posted by Forbiddian

Here's my advice:

Suck less at PTQ.
Play Legacy for more than 0 days.
Learn to wear a shirt. Popped white striped shirt with a black undershirt?
Learn to set an alarm clock.

It's like talking to a 5-year old. Learn to dress yourself and wake up in the morning, and suck less at Magic.

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LOL You really are Pi4meterftw!

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Originally Posted by yankeedave

He said that to me! And did you notice he didn't reply to my response of "Didn't you play 17 land, 4 Brainstorm, 4 Careful Study in your 2nd place SCG St Louis 5K deck?"

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Haha , ah yeah i remember you in the comments. Nice one.

I almost feel bad for that guy. He just lost all respect he ever had in that forum. People are just ripping on him hard.

He shouldn't let that affect him. Look at Mark Rosewater for an example of writer that people love to bash.