[Deck] GW/x Maverick

The most potencial I see for making cuts in your list would be the 4th hierarch ( you still have 8 T1 manadork plays, I can agree with the 3/1 split on birds and hierarch) and possibly the sword of feast and famine or the RWM, which isn't needed IMO.

While the missteps take care of CC 1 removal, you also have to keep in mind that MoM might be needed to connect with an equipped dork, allowing you to swing the game. Or prevent Jace from bouncing one of your guys. Also T1 mom helps against fast aggro decks where equipment might be too slow.

How has the predator been treating you so far?

@HPB: lol no Dryad Arbor. You guys should really just stop spamming lists from the top of your head that you never even played with and then argue that these "work out for you". 20 mana producing lands (including 4 Wastelands) is a joke. Same with Lordot. He even says that he never tested with it and then refuses to take advice. The only tested list on the last pages is Mortes (though I disagree with Maze and Equipment choices). 4 MoR, 2 Elspeth and the GSZ tutor package tell me that we had similar test results.

Quote:

---

The most potencial I see for making cuts in your list would be the 4th hierarch ( you still have 8 T1 manadork plays, I can agree with the 3/1 split on birds and hierarch) and possibly the sword of feast and famine or the RWM, which isn't needed IMO.

---

I hadn't thought of cutting the fourth Hierarch. Certainly worth testing out.

Quote:

---

How has the predator been treating you so far?

---

Fairly well. Very good in some match-ups, very poor in others. At the very least, it always has evasion and can eat equipment, which seems to be infesting Legacy at the moment.

Quote:

---

@HPB: lol no Dryad Arbor.

---

Dryad Arbor is generally good in only one situation - the one where you need to ramp up into three mana on turn two and have no Birds or Hierarch in your hand.

Beyond that, it's not especially useful. I could see cutting it, but it would have to be for another land.

Quote:

---

You guys should really just stop spamming lists from the top of your head that you never even played with and then argue that these "work out for you". 20 mana producing lands (including 4 Wastelands) is a joke. Same with Lordot. He even says that he never tested with it and then refuses to take advice. The only tested list on the last pages is Mortes (though I disagree with Maze and Equipment choices). 4 MoR, 2 Elspeth and the GSZ tutor package tell me that we had similar test results.

---

You, friend, need to stop being so aggressive. You have no idea how much testing I've done with this list, and just because it doesn't have similar results as your own does not make it wrong.

You can either attempt to be constructive in some way, or I can ignore you as you continue to troll. I don't particularly care which, but I would hope you do.

I have nothing constructive to say about about a list with 4 GSZ and 0 Dryad Arbor. It just makes no sense.

My opinion is that ramping up to three mana with GSZ-->Dryad arbor is great and is worth it. It makes GSZ mana or threat, which increases the consistency of the deck.

Sorry, but Tao is absolutely right. You really want to have Arbor when running a full set of Zeniths; and you probably should even run it with only three Zeniths. Further, you're running way too few lands. My current list runs 23 lands including four Wastelands, four Horizon Canopies and Singletons of Dryad Arbor and Maze Of Ith. That list is running really well right now, my girlfriend and I are gauntlet-testing it and I'm really impressed by the results.
What I can definitely advocate is running Batterskull and a full set of Stoneforge Mystics. Stoneforge Mystic plus Wasteland is just really really strong. What I'm also doing right now is trying out more copies of Terravore, that seems pretty good. These might as well be Elspeth, Knight-Errant or Mirran Crusader though. I'm also looking to test Sylvan Library, seems good.

I'm lead to believe that when running Sylvan Library, Batterskull is very heavily desired in the equipment package. Being able to cheat out extra cards from all the life gain with Batterskull may appear as win-more, but every single card makes the difference between winning and losing.

I too agree that playing more lands is desirable. I've come to the conclusion during testing that Tundra has no place in the deck - it can't produce green mana and eats up a land slot. On a similar note, Misty Rainforest is also really really bad as a fetchland for the deck. I have swapped it for a white-Fetcher, as getting the basic Plains is highly valuable with cards such as Elspeth in the deck. I'm possibly thinking that no blue dual lands are needed at all - they end up being a liability more often than being useful to cast Mental Misstep. I even have a blue card SB in my Etutor-board plan to find Energy Flux (btw, highly recommended - it answers Affinity which would otherwise run us over)

My mana base as of now:

2 Horizon Canopy
2 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept heath
1 Arid Mesa
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor

I only ever search out Tropical Island if I anticipate sacrificing it to KotR within 1 turn, otherwise it's a wash.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tao

I have nothing constructive to say about about a list with 4 GSZ and 0 Dryad Arbor. It just makes no sense.

---

And this would be my fault, because there is supposed to be a Dryad Arbor in that list. Not sure where it went.

You can kind of tell when I was talking about how it might be worth cutting, but I suppose we both did a little fail on reading comprehension there.

for those who play the slight blue splash with their e-tutor package, do you find energy flux better than serenity?

I've been tinkering on a list and came to the conclusion that Fatal's list is a pretty good reverence to start off with. Having this in mind I started to cumstomize it to my own preferences and came up with this:



4 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Tarmogoyf
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Terravore
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Eternal Witness
1 Dryad Arbor

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library

3 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares

2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
4 Windswept heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland

I've change it up a little bit

-1 Goyf
-1 Gaddock Teeg
-1 Sword of Light and Shadow

+2 Sylvan Library
+1 Batterskull
+1 Stoneforge Mystic

-The reason I cut my second goyf is because unlike most bluebased decks our goyf never seems to reach full status on it's own and there for is only good in certain MU's.

-The same goes for the Gaddock Teeg, having this one on the side should probably enough, all though GSZ for a teeg with misstep back up is certainly nice. This play is very crucial in our combo MU as they run chain of vapors MB.

-My personal favorite is Batterskull, this for all the obvious reasons. It's an All-Star against aggro matchups and in the late game it can provide you with a nice string of blockers or attackers, depending on what role it must take on.

-The third Mystic is mainly because it's not a GSZ target, therefor 3 copies of it are a must to my standards.

-Having two copies of Sylvan Library in combination with a RWM and Batterskull let's you draw more cards without real loss of life. In other situations it just provides you with extra depth and keeps a steady string of juice flowing.

In this list I've opted not to play MoR, in other lists I did ran them. For those who've tested more than me, I know run Missteps in her slots and reckon them to be a crucial part of our deck in the new metagame. But isn't the loss of MoR hard felt?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rukcus

I don't think Batterskull fits into "fun vs win%". It actually helps the deck much better than Sword of Light and Shadow for the MD.

---

I need some explanation here. In my testing, the effects of SoLS are the most desirable against Zoo. Life gain can really save your life and you always have small critters in the yard to recur.

Batterskull, if resolved, would be even better: but it’s really hard to resolve it with SFM, i.e. before it’s (too) late.

In my experience, Zoo has so many removals that my SFM is almost always fried immediately (and I play 4 MoR).

Maybe with Mental Misstep the situation is a little better, but I can’t believe you’re consistently able to resolve your Butterskull in time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rukcus

It also single-handedly beats Merfolk without much effort, and that's not to be dismissed.

---

True, but my Merfolk metchup is very easy without Batterskull too.

In which matchups do you find Batterskull making the difference?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tao

The only tested list on the last pages is Mortes (though I disagree with Maze and Equipment choices).

---

Thanks Tao, why do you disagree with the Maze?

And what's your SFM/equipment configuration?

I’d greatly appreciate to know your equipment strategy for the various matchups.

IMHO, about equipment I don't understand people who package other Swords than F&I or L&S with Jitte and/or Batterskull (I mean switching F&I and/or L&S for B&M and/or F&F/W&P). Yes, protection from green is awesome to attack a big dude, yes, putting a 2/2 bear or specially untap all our lands is marvellous, but I found best the critter-recursion of SoLaS as Morte said, even a Qasali (always useful giving one more exalted trigger) a Knight... or also I prefer the abilities of SoFaI (also protect a Mirran from red bolt or blue bouncing is awesome letting Misstep for possible StoP/Path). From the newer swords, I like a lot the War and Peace protections (not so the abilities).

I know Gaddock is sometimes a dead card in some MU, but I prefer a dead card than no solutions to combo in 1st game.

I also want to test Terravore, seems cool with GSZ, but I'm not sure about including Rafiq to my list.

I'm really glad to see the thread, and that it's a DTB. I was actually looking to build a new deck a while ago and decided on a GW agro deck. A friend of mine pointed out the topic and mentioned that I had a lot of the core deck and to look through this thread.
My original deck was pretty good, a lot better than any of my previous deck. I haven't done too much testing with it, but the testing I did do showed me that the deck had potential and was really fun to play. I also never really finished that deck, I kept playing around with proxies to see what would work.

my original deck:

// Lands (21)
3 Forest
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
2 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

// Creatures (24)
2 Birds of Paradise
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Garruk's Companion
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Sigiled Paladin
2 Terravore
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

// Spells (10)
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sword of Body and Mind
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Like I said, it wasn't a complete list, and I can't remember what I used for proxies. But after reading through here and seeing everyone's take on the deck and their deck list, I've retooled mine to look like this: (still not complete, not sure what to put in)


// Creatures (23)
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Eternal Witness
2 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Tarmogoyf
2 Terravore
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

// Spells (13)
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sword of Body and Mind
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte

###Possible additions### (1)
2 Dueling Grounds

// Lands (21)
2 Forest
4 Horizon Canopy
2 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland


Total: 57


// Sideboard 12
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Choke
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Krosan Grip
2 Serenity
2 Silence
2 Thorn of Amethyst

###Maybe###
1 Cold-Eyed Selkie



So, as you see my MD has only 57 total, I know I need at least 1 more equipment, though I'm not sure which one. I'm leaning torwards either SoFaI or SoLaS. I also know that I'm not running any copies of Stoneforge Mystic, I kind of want to try it out without her and see how it fairs.

Other than that, any comments would be greatly appreciated on either the MD or SB.

My current Equipment pack is SoBaM, Jitte and Batterskull. But I guess with Mirran Crusader Pro: Green is less needed. For me SoLaS is not doing anything 2/3 of the time, but some people seem dead set on it so I won't argue.
Vs. Zoo it isn't bad if they kill SFM right away and you don't get to play Batterskull for cheap. Just calcalute that into your game plan when you tutor for it tol buy some time because they have to spend their main phase killing your guy instead of playing their undercosted guys.
I do not like Maze because it is a bad draw that you can easily do without. It is 100% dead vs. both Combo and Control and only useful against Aggro decks when enough things come together: you are in the defense, you have too much Mana and they have a big attacker. Also those decks usually play Wasteland anyway so it is not very realiable. Only with Affinity in the Meta I would play it.

I cut Teeg from the Maindeck, too. It meddles with your own Zenith's and Elspeth's which often enough hurts you more than your opponents. It is also not good enough against BUG Jacestill because of Deed. On top of that it doesn't even do much against the most popular Combo decks: Painterstone doesn't care and Hive Mind can still Show and Tell into Hive Mind which is their preferred win against GW anyway.

Totally agree on Teeg.

So you play 3 SFM + 1x SoBaM, Jitte and Batterskull? I'd like to see your list for reference.

4 SFM. It is maybe the best card atm so I wouldn't play less than that.



// Lands
3 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
3 [U] Savannah
2 [LRW] Forest
1 [6E] Plains
4 [MPR] Wasteland
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
1 [US] Gaea's Cradle
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog

// Creatures
4 [FNM] Mother of Runes
2 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
1 [4E] Birds of Paradise
3 [FNM] Qasali Pridemage
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
1 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [FNM] Eternal Witness
1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
1 [OD] Terravore

// Spells
4 [AT] Swords to Plowshares
2 [NPH] Mental Misstep
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [NPH] Batterskull
1 [SOM] Sword of Body and Mind
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 [ROE] Vengevine
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 2 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [WL] Null Rod
SB: 1 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst

No love for Choke in the sideboard Tutor package? This card is so good at bullying blue decks!

EDIT: Drum up some more discussion -

Here's my sideboard currently:
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Gaddock teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Choke
1 Energy Flux
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Oblivion Ring

there's 2 cards I can't remember at this point - I'll update this when I look at my list. This is highly tailored towards my metagame - Landstill, Equipment decks, and Combo. Qasali Pridemage in the board is #4 in the 75, and brought in against Affinity, Enchantress, and the mirror. Energy Flux is supported by 1 Tropical Island and 4 Hierarchs in the maindeck, and is necessary to beat Affinity; who otherwise run us over with swarms+Plating. Oblivion Ring is double purpose against both Planeswalker control decks and Emrakul style decks, but also useful against Batterskulls. It's a tutorable catch-all.

I'm starting to think that maybe Life from the Loam wouldn't be a bad idea against the Landstill decks too.

If you find room for Choke or if the Meta is that way then Choke is very good. But I don't side E. Tutor vs. blue noncombo decks so a 1-off wouldn't help much. The SB is very hard to build. I'd also like Mindcensors and tons of other stuff.

@ rukcus: do you find energy flux that much better than a serenity?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lilrikki2000

@ rukcus: do you find energy flux that much better than a serenity?

---

I knew I was glossing over something!

So, I went 4:0 at my local today, playing Morte's list - SoLaS + Batterskull - Maze of Ith + Basic Forest,
SB:

3 Krosan Grip
3 Choke
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Null Rod
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Path to Exile
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Loaming Shaman

My MUs were Affinity 2:0, Gerry T. Landstill 2:1, Mirror 2:1, UW Tempo 2:0. I was pretty happy how everything worked out, especially that I managed to beat LS.

Some thoughts:

- I think at least 1 Bird is justified, I want to stuff as much evasion into the deck as possible.
- Gaea's Cradle is a must as it stands. It saved my ass a few times when I went Mystic, cast equipment and swing.
- I think I will test a second scryb ranger, but I'm not too sure what to cut.
- Batterskull didn't have much impact today.

First off congrats on your win.

I have a couple of questions for you regarding your list.

-Did you ever missed not playing Mental Misstep?
-How did the Batterskull faired for you in the long haul?

It looks like a lot of people have been going in the same direction as me with this deck. Here is my list as of current.


// Lands
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [US] Gaea's Cradle
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
3 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
3 [A] Savannah
2 [TE] Wasteland
2 [ZEN] Plains (4a)
1 [ZEN] Forest (1)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [ON] Flooded Strand

// Creatures
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
1 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
2 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
3 [UL] Mother of Runes
3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
3 [TSP] Serra Avenger
3 [MBS] Mirran Crusader

// Spells
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [MBS] Sword of Feast and Famine
1 [NPH] Batterskull

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
SB: 2 [IN] Dueling Grounds
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 2 [WL] Serenity
SB: 1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 [WL] Null Rod
SB: 2 [MI] Enlightened Tutor


I am not entirely sold on batterskull maindeck. Yes, it is a tutorable threat with stoneforge, and yes it gains life; it just seems that everytime i get it out that it is win more. I was at 4 mother of runes, but the space in this deck is so tight, that I sadly had to drop it again. I would like to make room for another qasali main deck but I just don't know what to cut for it. Perhaps an avenger. I just like that a majority of my threats have evasion. I find that when you get down to attrition, cards with evasion are usually the decider. The only real reason I even run a goyf in this list is for a tutorable 2 drop outside of qasali. It has crossed my mind to cut him, but he is the best pound for pound fighter in legacy.

Questions -

Those who I see with thrun maindeck, does your testing merit his inclusion? or is that a meta call?

I've seen a couple opinions as to the correct equipment choices. I personally have been using feast and famine since I went up in stoneforge mystic targets. Those who have been using light and shadow, do you find that it warrant its spot?

How do you like the sylvan library, for those who play it? I like to have a lot of threats in my version, so there are very little frills. I would like to test it though. I would like to hear from those who currently use it, and I will give my opinion after some of my own games.

I have sound Sylvan Library important in SB games more than Game 1's. This is because you want to really find your SB cards, and Library helps you dig to find them. Against control and black attrition, it also helps to sandbag the threats until you are ready to cast them. Finally, it allows you to prevent drawing equipment off the top, by putting them back then shuffling them out with SFM.

In most of the games I've played, I've used it to push through pockets of non-lands/lands that we normally don't have much control over.

@slate-
I don't like the idea of playing less than 4 KotR in the Deck. Even with 4 GSZ, you always want to draw him(even in multiples) in like every matchup. Having 2 Knights on the Board means you can equip one and beat w/ exalted and use the other one for pure utility. He's an awesome topdeck and still the best standalone beater we have in the deck, even with no evasion (in a healthy meta, if yours is full of TA and NO Bant, playing 3 Mirrans instead might be ok)

Well, i am not an expert in zenith version of deck (I run vial), but I will say my feelings:

Cradle must be included (cause playing stoneforge and equiping the same turn) and maze of ith is not needed.

I would play 4 stoneforge mystic, cause is the most destabilizing card of the deck. I think batterskull is slow, and i prefer the old swords. If you run evasive creatures, like birds of paradise, sword of body and mind isnt necessary.

I prefer mother of runes rather than misteps. Mother + bear is autowin vs combo, has sinergy with scryb ranger, and is the most important card in mirror games.

The blue control decks, such as landstill UW, BUG, MUC... are booming, and these are not a good MU. Nowadays i would run a sb like this:


// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 3 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 [8E] Choke
SB: 1 [NPH] Batterskull

I've been playing this deck for a few weeks now running the NO package (3-1 this week). I see NO mentioned on the first page, but I haven't seen it included in any deck lists yet.

Any comments? I'm sort of new to the format, but I'm fairly consistent at least going 2-2 or 3-1 every week. The batterskull was a new addition for me this week; it ended up winning me a few games.

I'm running:
1 Fauna Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Progenitus
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Terravore

1 Batterskull
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
3 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

SB:
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Choke
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MattHouse

I've been playing this deck for a few weeks now running the NO package (3-1 this week). I see NO mentioned on the first page, but I haven't seen it included in any deck lists yet.

Any comments? I'm sort of new to the format, but I'm fairly consistent at least going 2-2 or 3-1 every week. The batterskull was a new addition for me this week; it ended up winning me a few games.

I'm running:
1 Fauna Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Progenitus
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Terravore

1 Batterskull
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
3 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

SB:
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Choke
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt

---

My first thought when looking at your list is cut the Fauna Shaman for Gaddock Teeg, it's a much more valuable GSZ target. My two cents...

Edit: also 2 mom? Why not 4? I would cut a couple goyfs for her.

Gaddock disables natural order, in addition to green sun zenith.
Fauna shaman is needed to discard progenitus when you draw it. yuo can GSZ to fauna and then discarding progenitus

hahaha my bad, not used to a NO package. I'll shut up now

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bzka

@slate-
I don't like the idea of playing less than 4 KotR in the Deck. Even with 4 GSZ, you always want to draw him(even in multiples) in like every matchup. Having 2 Knights on the Board means you can equip one and beat w/ exalted and use the other one for pure utility. He's an awesome topdeck and still the best standalone beater we have in the deck, even with no evasion (in a healthy meta, if yours is full of TA and NO Bant, playing 3 Mirrans instead might be ok)

---

Well it went from 4 kotr to 3 kotr and a terravore to just 3 kotr. Yeah he gets big, but Mirran is usually a much bigger threat to most decks. So I went with a 3/3 split of mirran and kotr. I also play only 22 land 1 being maze of ith. So the lack of the set of wastelands and horizon canopy's also factored into my decision. He is also my main gsz target, so it's not like I miss seeing him, in fact i see him plenty.

For all those who are playing mirran crusader, how does he fitt into the GSZ plan as he cant be fetched and what did you cut for playing him?

I personally do not like NO versions without blue. I realize fauna can discard the prog if you draw him, but that can be very slow. also, w/ blue decks EVERYWHERE playing NO just seems like a very bad gamble without any protection

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barnie25

For all those who are playing mirran crusader, how does he fitt into the GSZ plan as he cant be fetched and what did you cut for playing him?

---

What shall be the "GSZ plan"? Imho GSZ adds more flexibility to the deck by allowing to play virtual 5 grenn creatures by just adding one to the deck. Mirran Crussader ist not a really versatile card. He's simply a good beater and the prot:green can help a lot in the current meta.

I actually run the following list:

3 Savannah
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Forest
2 Plains
(at the moment I'm fine with 22 Land and 2 Wastelands, but im thinking about either adding another Wasteland or just run 21 lands within 2 Wasteland)

4 GSZ
4 StoP
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull (forces the opponent to "waste" his removal on SFM so that you either create CA +1 or have another early threat, it's also quite useful agains BUG-Stil)
1 SoFaI

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 KnotR
4 SFM
3 Aven Mindcensor (probably one of the most insane cards in the mirror or against BigZoo if flashed in early)
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Terravore

Hey guys, good to see your still testing many variation of deck. Here is report from 23 men tournament.

The tournament:
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6245

The list:
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...5&iddeck=45255

Round 1 - B/W Discard

This MU isn't favorable, a lot of hand disruption + removal (StP, Vindicate) connected with Confidants CA. Then real beaters like Phyrexian Obiterator, Mirrian Cursader and SFM with Equips (Battleskull included)

In this MU MVP was often cut Sword of Light and Shadow. Mostly players forgot that Germ from Battleskull is also black, this mean that equipped creature was unblockable, and unkill able (only vindicate can stop you).

Don't remember every detail from this games but I raced him out with Goyf connected with SoLS then he Vindicate it, and i bring it back again with Eternal Witness from GSZ.

Sided in:
2 Wing Shards - very good vs protected/equipped beaters
2 Life from the Loam
1 Phyrexian Metamorph - it can dodge GftT

Sided out:
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Mental Misstep

Game plan after side was simple - Equips + Recurring Dryad Arbor and Maze from Life from the Loam.
2-1

Round 2

NO RUG

This game wasn't hard, but I lost first one (MM into my hierarch then 3rd turn Hydra coudn't race it).

I sided:

2 Wing Shards - good vs hydra
1 Phyrexian Metamorph - again great card
1 E. Tutor
2 Choke

Sided out:

1 Rafiq of the Many
2 Elspeth Knight-Errant
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Qasali Pridemage

I kept quite hand with 2 Wing Shards, Scryb Ranger, and Hierarch and 3 lands. Unfortunately I didn't drew anything except lands for 10 rounds which was very unlucky. I take off Goyf, then Goyf + Hierarch with Jitte (he wanted to be smart after first Wing Shards and attack also with Hierarch - I casted on flash Scryb Ranger then Wing Shards with storm count +1 ;) ) - at the end I died from second Hierarch with Jitte which was sad.
0-2

Round 3 - Landstill U/W/(g) for krosan grips

I was little nervous about this MU - i took of Thrun out. I win the roll and overwhelmed him with good tempo + wastelands, keeping alive Gaddock Teeg with Mental Missteps was hey to fast victory.

Side in:
2 Choke
2 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
2 Life from the Loam
1 Bojuka Bog

Side out:
2 Swords to Plowshare (2 stay for breaking Standstill and killing Mishra's)
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Terravore
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Maze of Ith
1 Knight of the Reliquary - that was hard


In second game I faced a lot of GY hate but I played quite controlish will avenger tempo strategy, I needle Jace, Played Gaddock and protect him. He played humility after next StP, Karakas safe it - I had Krosan in hand i waited two turns then played GSZ for 3 and In resp to it blow up Humility, then bring Krosan back with Eternal Witness - under Humility I could play GSZ, but couldn't abuse creatures from it so that's why I needed to wait that 2 turns to make mana base. Opponent was playing very slow but in state 1-0 for me I could wait for his long thinking turns - I tell him that he is playing slow and give advice to speed up a little.

Game ends 1-0-1

Round 4 - Spiral Tide

Quite hard MU key was Gaddock + Tempo and its works - I won first game which was surprise. I missteped twice his cantrip so his hand wasn't great - he miss 3rd land drop once which was enough for KotR swing to death. He also played Missteps list included on thecouncil.es

Side in:
Ethersworn Canonist
Pithing Needle - I recognize that he cut Calderabras in list - and mostly this card is sided out so Needle only vs Fetchlands - but I missed.
2 Choke

Side out:
4 Sword to Plowshares

I didn't have real sideboard vs this kind of combo so my only plan was fast clock + one of the two hatebears and slow down with choke if I force him to tapout.

I lost second game in turn 3, he spell Pierce my GSZ then kill me with storm count after first time spiral - I didn't drew any missteps.

Game 3 I had really good hand - Canonist, 2 Missteps, Hierarch and Elspeth, He couldn't fight though it.

2-1

Round 5

NO RUG (not the same guy as in round 2)

This time I have very good draws and push Gaddock on table then protect him, I eated him with KotRs/Goyfs which was bigger he could burn. Game two was similar sideboard plan the same as in round 2.

I sided:

2 Wing Shards - good vs hydra
1 Phyrexian Metamorph - again great card
1 E. Tutor
2 Choke

Sided out:

1 Rafiq of the Many
2 Elspeth Knight-Errant
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Qasali Pridemage

Top4:
Aggro RUG with Jaces

This MU was much diffrent than NO RUG, he had other game plan, so am I. First game was on my favorable - fast tempo countering his Spell Snare and avoding daze from Scryb Ranger. Then put out of burn range creatures only real danger was bounce from jace, and early lavamancer which i StP.

Side in:
1 Pithing Needle
2 Choke
2 Life from the Loam

Side out:
1 Rafiq of the Many - obv bolt kills it
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Terravore - it dies after relic of progenitus
2 Elspeth Knight-Errant - that is questionable

After Mull to 5 on opponent side was gg, I kept waste+loam lock + beater. He submerge me twice but everytime he submerge I drew other beater, then I Pithing Jace and mostly it was gg.

In finals I take a split (could play but it was late, wastelands are nice ;])

Congrats on the result, nice to see the deck doing as well as it does!

Did you ever utilize the Rafiq or missed not playing battle skull, a third SFM or MoR?

Congrats on your deck's good performance!

Just an observation.. It seems that you sided out Rafiq more often than your other cards.. Does that mean Rafiq is a win more card?

How about Thrun? A definite powerhouse against blue-based decks and can dodge spot removals.. :p

This is my updated list. Thanks to Tao and Philipp2293 for their critical thinking :wink:


// Lands (23)
4 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea’s Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bojuka Bog

// Creatures (24)
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Terravore
1 Eternal Witness

// Spells (13)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant


I cut 1 Noble Hierarch to up to 4 SFM.
Second choice would have been Mirran Crusader, but I really want to see at least one per match, so, being it not tutorable with GSZ, I couldn't accept to run less than 3.

I considered to add 1 BoP, but the only acceptable switch would have been Scryb Ranger, which I found more versatile, or another Noble Hierarch, which I prefer for exalted - I already have a flyer with the Ranger.

I'm testing again -1 SoLaS +1 Batterskull (everybody seem to agree with this, I should consider that maybe I was wrong:-)

More considerations about the mana base. I went -1 Karakas +1 Bojuka Bog and I like it. Nowadays legends are not the main threat, while Bog is widely useful: besides GY decks there are a lot of applications, I liked how it shrinks opposing KoR or turns off Lavamancers.

I upped the fetchland count from 5 to 7 (I had some issue with the size of my early KoR) with 6 targets (4 Savannah, 1 forest and 1 plains).

I have a question: many people play 2 forests with 3 Savannahs, what's the purpose for that? I don's see enough fetchlands to plan to play basics only during first turns.

You got a nice list. I like 4 stoneforge maind deck

Quote:

---

I'm testing again -1 SoLaS +1 Batterskull (everybody seem to agree with this, I should consider that maybe I was wrong:-)

---

I don´t agree. I still use SOLAS, and baterskull on sb vs zoo, burn, merfolks and pernicius decks.

Quote:

---

More considerations about the mana base. I went -1 Karakas +1 Bojuka Bog and I like it. Nowadays legends are not the main threat, while Bog is widely useful: besides GY decks there are a lot of applications, I liked how it shrinks opposing KoR or turns off Lavamancers.

---

Are you sure? the new Gin-taxias improves reanimator, and there are still many emrakuls on metagame. It works Vs a very played card: vendilion. The other reason is that you can use it to get mana

Quote:

---

I have a question: many people play 2 forests with 3 Savannahs, what's the purpose for that? I don's see enough fetchland to plan to play basics only during first turns.

---

I think playing only 2 basic lands and 4 savannahs is the correct way

Thanks for your feedback.

In effect, Bojuka Bog is a very bad draw early game. Need more testing, as for Batterskull vs. SoLaS.