Printable View
If Team America starts becoming prominent over BuG Control, then All is Dust would just replace repeal. The ONLY logic that cyclonic rift trumps the other better removal spells is if its instant-ness is relevant. Right now, that isn't the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by somethingdotdotdot
More wins with the deck. Tuesday weekly event net'd me a Wasteland, 3 modified Eldrazi's, and an unanticipated ego stroke.
My 4th round opponent offered an ID to me, with me being the only undefeated in the event. He offered it because he knew he couldn't beat my deck, and I was still guaranteed first and he was 3rd, or 2nd if the other round drew. I was flattered, and of course agreed.
webpage dying, accidental repost and can't delete. fail!
I hope we get the same success this coming November 10 with another major tournament. Price is a set of Jace, the Mind Sculptor
A few months ago I'd scoff at a playset of Jaces, but now they're over 100$ apiece! I love Modern speculation! =DQuote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
Hi Everybody i m knew here. I come from Paris so first of all, apologize for my english.
I just came to talk about this deck that i play in France since 6 month. This deck is fun competitive and i ve test'd a lot lot of version.
Looking for a good removal i ve tested all is dust and didn t like him, it's too hard to cast against denial decks. Devastation tide is good but sometimes not enough against a goblin warchief so i splashed white to add some terminus. I changed a bit my mana base with a tundra, 2 savannah one more fetch and 2 mox diamond. I m pretty happy about that idea.
I played 3 days ago at GP Lyon legacy side event.
I started 4-0 after burning 2 rock an UW miracle and a dredge deck
Then i lost against MUD (hard match up)
Draw against BUG aggro ( a missplay glimmer/cloudpost on titan)
Then i lost against BUG control ( loam waste jace liana deed......)
4-2-1 drop then back home
You dislike Repeal for removal? I have found it to be extremely good at all stages of the game, which is the major lacking in all other removal spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keupon
Also can you supply a deck list? Perhaps I can give suggestions for the white-splash, which I have done extensive testing with.
If you can't express your response in English, I speak non-fluent French, but enough to answer your questions with some infrequent dictionary usage.
Hi all,
as our french friend above, i'm really new to this forum (even if i've read it for months). I've been a gobbos player for such a long time, but since i discovered this deck I grew more and more interested in it, it sounds really unconventional but still highly competitive. Also, I'd like to play a deck that's all but common to see in tournaments (I'm from Italy and here candelabras are rare to be found). Lee, I've tested what i think it's your latest build (3x repeal, 3x show'n tell, green sun zenith) and found it really good against rising decks like junk, nic-fit and basically every non-blue deck (with the exception of mud) but i'm having trouble in facing correctly decks like RUG tempo or BUG tempo. Stifle always gets me with my pants down (fetches, maps, titan triggers) and i often find myself hiding behind chasm while hoping to draw the right card, that almost always get FoWed. Could you please give me some tips about how i should play these games? Also, could you please tell us what are your sb plans against typical format decks?
Thanks in advance! ( sorry if my english isn't perfect, i'm a bit rusted :-) )
I will tell you you a secret of sorts that applies to Stifle in general, but specifically to the RUG/BuG matchup. When my opponents are playing Stifle, the best possible play, is to do nothing. Simply hold back your stifle targets and make them lose opportunity cost by landing threats later, not being able to EOT brainstorm, whatever the mana sacrifice may be. Turbo Eldrazi wins if it has time, so the way to beat decks that are based around using their mana every turn is to not allow them to use their mana every turn, and thus gain time from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Davek
I know it might seem small and simple, but my teammate Scott Hughes had the same concern specifically about Stifle, and I told him this. In the same event I told him about this philosophy he employed it against Rug both in the swiss and in the top 8 and crushed it. RuG can't deal with having to hold back. The deck relies on spending its mana every turn and garnering exactly enough advantage to win from it.
Bruce Lee had it right with his discipline Jeet Kune Do, Way of the intercepting fist. By being Defensive you enable yourself to control the movement and tempo of a fight.
Upcoming major event on our end and I'm planning to bring a list identical to yours (save for the SB... we don't have enough Flusterstorms or Venser, so we're going with a 3/3 Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce split). Wish me luck!
A few things though... any tips against the Mono-Black Pox/Aggro Matchup? From the few games I've played against it, it seems it's well-equipped to give Turbo Eldrazzi a bad day - Land-disruption and Hand-disruption right up the wazoo, plus it becomes a down-hill battle when he's got you down to top-deck mode and he has an active Liliana dismantling your hand, or destroying your board presence...
What about burn? From my testing it seems like a coin-toss for the most part, even with the SB... Any pointers here?
Pox is one of your easiest matchups. they get completely shut down by needle. side out things like show & tell, which are bad against hymn and discard. You just out-advantage them, and they have no pressure. The local venues I play at often have 2-3 pox decks in a ~30 man environment, and I haven't lost a game to them in months. Elephant grass also laughs at them hard, but I probably would consider it overkill. side in spell pierce x3 for x3 show & tell and call it a day.Quote:
Originally Posted by SBGpinas
Your best card against decks that try to go 1-for-1 against you on card advantage is Sensei's Divining Top. The card is simply beast considering how many shuffle effects you run. Play off your top 3, not your hand.
I recently added Spellskite to the Side against burn, but keep crop rotate for Glacial chasm in response to price of progress, and prioritize glimmerposts first. NEVER assume they can't kill you when you get primeval titan, always be safe and get chasm early with primeval titan searches. Even when attacking with primeval titans I suggest chasms for safety. If there is lots of burn in your area, you can run 2x Glacial Chasm, 1 main 1 side. This lets you tutor it early and not have to sustain it while holding back a crop for your 2nd one.
I also ordered Vensers lol and the 4th Flusterstorm will be given to you by Dominic. You also have spare Trinispheres and Revokers lol Good Luck!Quote:
Originally Posted by SBGpinas
I also lost to MBA today, sided like a Pox matchup but then in then on the other hand you just need Elephant Grass against that deck. Went to draw though with that deck, didn't pithing needle Liliana and I named Wasteland then Ratchet Bomb. He was able to Ultimate my Elephant Grass out. Also after a lot of shuffling and Top activation no kill cons come out so I lost game 2 resulting in a draw lol Pithing Needle on Ugin is a pain
I prefer venser over Elephant Grass in the pox matchup for exactly that reason. Bouncing Liliana in resp to her 1+ ability when they have no hand will win a game handily. That and they can't deal with karakas abuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
It is important to know when the deck transitions from its normal plan. Pox is one of those times where simple advantage-plays will win you the game. Going all-in is significantly riskier and unnecessary. Waiting a turn to keep a SDT in play is almost always the better play. Just playing lands are often stronger plays than casting lots of spells. You move towards mana advancement not necessarily locus advancement. That type of thing.
So how playable is this deck without Candelabras?
notQuote:
Originally Posted by thra1l
I sided in the spell pierces but failed to counter the Phyrexian Arena and the Liliana. Arena was turn 2 or 1 I guess with Dark ritual and I played turn 1 top. Didn't have a blue source early lol but had a nice ramp. He was able to pay the Spell Pierce I applied to Liliana. Pithing Needle on Liliana would have won me :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Surely a card that was ran for quite a while as a one-of with no means to search for it isn't essential to the deck. It may not be optimal, but I think a list without it would viable. I would just rather not drop the cash on a Candelabra right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Read this sentence 10 times. I am only interested in optimal deck construction.Quote:
Originally Posted by thra1l
If you want to make a casual deck, this is not the forum or thread for you. I have explained multiple times why my candelabra choices in the past have been such, when 0 would be a viable number, why I chose 1 for a long time, and what the future of it would be. Using the search function is not hard, and a lack of its use only shows laziness or ignorance as I mention on the first page where to search and that I will not be repeating explanations especially those not thought out or tested.
Pretty stoked to build this deck. Wish I had the cards for this saturday, it'd blow my meta out of the water.
And a reply like that only shows immaturity; I was not being rude to you, don't be rude to me. I agree that I should have searched the older forum first, my apologies, but it would've been just as easy for you to direct me to it politely rather than rudely demeaning me and calling me a casual player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Ok everybody take a chill pill before this gets out of hand...Quote:
Originally Posted by thra1l
Back to the topic at hand though, having Candelabra opens up a lot of plays for the deck. Admittedly you will win games without ever drawing that card, but having it together with Repeal is just sick. With Candelabra, Turn 4 Eldrazi plays, and hard-casting Primeval Titan with only 1 green mana source becomes possible, even common, so based on playtesting experience, I would really suggest not skimping out on those.
Well, to be frank, a list without any Candelabra is only for a very specific metagame of which it is unlikely in the least. This is the Established Deck forum. Moreover:Quote:
Originally Posted by thra1l
That's from the very last page of the Development thread. And that was from the SCG Providence list, where Rock split the Finals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
I've become a big fan of this deck. However, being the scrubbity-scrub-scrub I am, I was wondering about your latest iteration of it.
Specifically, I was curious as to the inclusion of the singleton GSZ. I realize that it functions as Titan #4 but what brought about the change?
Short answer. I copied my teammate.Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseweasel
Long answer. I tried a build with multiple GSZ's in it, a green tutor kit, dryad arbor. It did ok, but ultimately I found that it forced you into a static line of play that deviates from the real strength of the deck, its adaptability. I tweaked the number of GSZ's from 2-4 for awhile, and ultimately gave up on the build. My teammate Scott Hughes stuck with it, and did some testing and tuning that I never did, which involved dropping all the non-primeval titan targets, and going down to 3, then 2, then 1 GSZ's. His success with the deck in that iteration brought me back to testing it, and it was extremely solid. It also does allow for possible sideboard options, but for the most part it is just there for Titan #5.
That's about what I figured. I'm still learning the deck's intricacies. This thing is way trickier than it looks to pilot. R/G tron in modern seems similar, which is usually what I play in that format, so that's how I ended up here. But this thing has some hidden depths to it. When are you boarding in the Spellskite?
Also: Love the pink card sleeves you were using in the tourney videos. I personally use Pokemon sleeves. Messing with people's heads is half the fun of playing a control deck.
Spellskite is the newest addition to the sideboard, so I'm not 100% on what it does and doesn't come in against. Burn is the most obvious choice, but also I bring it in against anything that tries to clock you, especially with 3-1/X's, when blocks matter, and most importantly, when I need my needles, so against all artifact hate, vindicate, or when randomly redirecting an effect that can save my life, such as against Belcher.Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseweasel
Keep in mind though, I often will side out my needles in matchups where the ONLY dangerous target to name is wasteland, and they will be keeping on weaker hands that happen to have wasteland. And if they re-side game 3 I will often bring them back in if they had artifact hate game 2. Mindscrew activate.
Yeah I was originally a bit iffy about maindecking needles but it really does open the door wide for head games having them in there game one.
My utter favorite to date is a game two Meddling Mage on needle. I almost died trying not to laugh.
Scott Hughes once won a match entirely on naming Lotus Petal on Pithing needle and winning because of it. My mind was blown.Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseweasel
I've seen Pithing Needle on Mountain win games. However the best Needle I faced was my MODO opponent naming Force of Will before casting Double Dark Ritual into Ad Nauseam. When I Forced it, he was like: "Well, worth a try." :laugh:
Haha. Awesome. So I'm starting to pick up cards for this deck, basically need a mint candelabra and I got it mostly pimped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
Mint candelabras are spendy as hell now. over 400 USD O.oQuote:
Originally Posted by r3dd09
we'll go NM then. ha I also forgot about the tabernacle >.> I might just wait and get that one in Denver in january * who all is attending?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Pimp wise, I'm just ordering none foil german stuff for right now until I know This is a deck that I want to commit on. Luckily I got german foil eldrazis ;)
I should be at Denver, 95% sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by r3dd09
Awesome, I plan on playing this deck. I don't know if I could play 2 days of DDFT * if everything does as planned*. Mental breakdown waiting to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
I'll proxy what I'm missing and practice and get ready for the GPT in 2 weeks. Should be rather easy as no one really plays legacy in Utah, and the people that do, only a few are going to the GP.
Yesterday i was having a fun, relaxed game with a friend of mine that was piloting my usual gobbos deck. I felt quite confident about this match but as i said it was nothing really serious. Anyway, i want to underline a situation that happened to me during the game. We were about to start our G2, sb in. I was on the draw and this was my opening hand: 2x misty rainforest, cloudpost, brainstorm, crop rotation, show and tell, elephant grass. "A good hand" i thought. Well, it turned out that it wasn't at all.
My friend landed a mountain and played a little pesky artifact we are running too (aka Pithing needle) naming... MISTY RAINFOREST! My shoulders shrinked, suddenly my hand was worse than ever. 4 turns later i died from a bloodthirsted angry mob of little green men. My friend then showed me his hand, telling me he had 2 pithing needle in his starting hand and that he was keeping the second for any utility artifact i could have landed. Even if i thought it was an odd move, it was definitely the right one.
I know, it was a case that's more unique than rare, but this made me thought: why should i run a whole set of misty rainforests since i have no basic forest to get with them? I switched from 4 rainforests to 1 x every blue fetch. I know that in this way our smartest opponents could understand that we are not running green basics, but i think they should be mostly worried about the huge amount of mana this deck can generate with locuses and try to deal with it. Until new changes to the flexible slots of the deck, i think i'll keep all 4 blue fetches as 1x.
No reason not to. I have just done that out of habit since I go in and out of running a basic forest. The original logic was so I could name other fetches, but the vulnerability seems too strong. That being said, I've never had it happen to me. There's just so many good things to name in the deck over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Davek
Rock, could you please give me some tips against Hive Mind? I had just few occasions to test against it, but i feel that g1 is just terrible, while post sb things could go slightly better (the problem is dealing with an hardcasted Hive Mind..)
Thanks
The best play against Hive mind involves Show & Tell on either side, Primeval Titan and then paying for pacts via Vesuva'd Volcs. They can't Show in Emrakul, but make sure you don't walk into show'ing in your own Titan and they just put in a quasi-hasted Emrakul. Candelabras are huge in this match as they enable full payment of pacts. Don't forget that you can respond to the lose-the-game triggers by fixing your mana with crop rotations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Davek
Hey guys, I topped 4 a tournament yesterday with the following list:
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
4 Vesuva
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Island
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
4 Expedition Map
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Primeval Titan
4 Crop Rotation
4 Brainstorm
4 Repeal
3 Show and Tell
1 Green Sun's Zenith
Sideboard:
3 Elephant Grass
4 Flusterstorm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Phyrexian Revoker
It was a small tournament with around 30 participants, all good players (legacy veterans) and with a meta full of Tempo/Mid-Range/S&T decks.
I had to make some adjustments to the last list from Rock Lee given the very significant presence of tempo decks in my meta, hence I ran 4 Repeal to try and gain back tempo.
I don't have my notes with me but here you go with a quick report:
T1: D&T with Aven Mindcensor
I loose G1 to too many creatures and a mindcensor that I didn't expect main deck preventing me to get the vesuva that would have saved my life. G2 Tabernacle+Elephant grass together with Emrakul sealed the deal. G3 was a needle fest and even if he had Mindcensor out I managed to get Tabernacle and elephant grass going again ftw.
1-0-0
T2: Tempo UGB with Decay and mongoose/delver/goyf
I win G1 with needle on Wasteland and Glacial Chasm copy galore, repeal also helped against turned delvers reducing clock immensely. G2 he was too fast for me and I couldn't stop the bleeding. G3 he made a terrible mistake by not countering my Crop Rotation EoT with FoW. I grabbed Eye of Ugin that picked Emrakul and proceeded to land the Karakas I had in hand to go infinite.
2-0-0
T3: Maverick GWU with Jace/Geist and no counters
I quickly win G1 on S&T for Emrakul. On G2 he sees 3 Wasteland and a Krosan Grip, it didn't last long :smile:. G3 is a great game (one of those that makes you want to continue to play MtG forever) my life swings from 2 to above 20 three times and I finally go infinite and close the game. At a certain point I had needle on Wasteland, Jace and Qasali...
3-0-0
I ID the following two games to get in Top 8
3-0-2
Quarterfinal: A friend with GUW Waterfalls (Shardless Agents, Stoneforge Mystics and Thopter/Sword)
G1 the deck does what it does and after stalling him with Glacial Chasm and landing Titan I go infinite (again :cool: ). G2 he applies a lot of pressure, gets a Grip for my only needle and proceeds to waste my butt-saving Chasm...not a nice feeling :tongue: G3 I'm in the game very soon and after a Titan lands I roll again.
Semifinal: The same Maverick deck I met in T3
Not much to say here...I was probably low on sugar (that coupled with the fact that I'm becoming too old to play games was probably a killer :wink: ) but I was never in the game both G1 and G2. Well I also had to mull to 5 G1 and 6 G2 and didn't help :D G2 he managed to waste one of my Cloudposts and proceeded to use Surgical Extraction on it, the game didn't last long afterward...
So a good performance for the deck, it ran smoothly all day (except the semis :laugh: ) and was able to get wins out of the blue even when under critical pressure. The more I play the deck, the more I discover interactions and interesting lines of play, it's a lot of fun and extremely powerful.
If I bring the deck out at the next tournament (I generally change deck to offer a moving target) I will probably redo the sideboard to focus less on the storm match-up and raise the number of needle effects and artifact protection (Spellskite seems very good for that, thx for the suggestion).
Congrats on your top 4 showing!Quote:
Originally Posted by Raystar
I put in the spellskite for exactly the tempo/protection reasons you're mentioning. It buys you time in so many ways after they've just taken out most of their creature hate.
I agree on the hypoglycemia as well. Most decks can afford to have a haggard and beat player pilot their decks to victory just from muscle memory and extensive testing when they are reaching the bottom of the barrel. Not this deck though. Too much thinking is required. I strongly suggest candy and soluble fiber!