Liliana of the Veil basically replaced Pox because it does most of the same stuff, and can recur discard/creature sacrificing over and over depending on the situation.
Printable View
Liliana of the Veil basically replaced Pox because it does most of the same stuff, and can recur discard/creature sacrificing over and over depending on the situation.
I recall not liking drawing smallpox when I was playing Liliana pox. They ruined my own game to much.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdsonDettoni
This point to what define a proper Pox deck: if you like, need, and love your pox cards then you have a pox deck. Otherwise you play black control, which is different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sughayyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by feline
Thanks for the answers. It seems, like @feline said, than Liliana replaced Pox, at least in control oriented versions of the deck. But the sinergy problem, wich @Hardcore is talking, still remains.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Pox and Smallpox have all the elements of a certain kind of control: (i) disrruptive, (ii) card advantage, and (iii) tempo-denial. But no one have yet find a competitive formula.
tempo plays require aggro follow-ups, otherwise it's durdling - a trategy proven to be frustrating for the player since you always "almost" win.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdsonDettoni
We are trying to get this deck working, make it competitive. Can it be a tier 1 deck? I don't know, probably not unfortunately. Can it be a good, solid deck? Yes, it can. I'll post my list in the following post 'cause my phone doesn't like long texts
Well, here goes the list I used for testings and the reason for the card choices.
creatures:
4 bloodghast
4 nihilith
2 tombstalker
I found tombstalker rather hard to cast, that's why I dropped it to 2. However I felt I was very threat-light. Need to change this.
discard suite:
4 thoughtseize
4 hymn to tourach
I don't think these need explanatins
pox cards:
4 innocent blood
4 smallpox
3 pox
3 liliana of the veil
I found myself almost never casting the big pox - either i simply didn't need it or the game was already lost.
acceleration:
4 dark ritual
I said something about mox on an early post, but this deck needs every card. Also, rituals ca nve VERY explosive and we need that. Thi "unfairness" costs a card, but we need to have an unfair start to maximize our chances - either so we can get too much ahead or so we can do more work to leave the opponent behind. It also helps resolve key spells you need after you cast a pox/smallpox and get your lands destroyed.
other:
1 crucible of worlds
1 phyrexian arena
crucible was a bad idea. The deck doesn't want to wait long enough to force a concession via wastelock.
phyrexian arena is interesting. However at 1 each, t's hard to say if it was just luck that it worked.
manabase:
4 wastelands
3 dakmor salvage
15 swamps
Considerations:
I'll take the crucible away, it is only marginally synergic withthe deck's strategy. This is not lands.deck, we don't kill by forcing a concession due to "I can't play any more spells, I'll get hit by 2 till I die". So crucible goes out.
Maybe 22 lands is too much. I'll try cutting 1 swamp. Again, I could try -2 swamps +1 cabal pit, but I don't want crucible here, so cabal pit would be a bad swamp that can be wasted and eventually be useful if things turn out right. So that's not gonna happen.
I also need to up the threat count, maybe +1 tombstalker.
Fitting in 2 tops would be nice as well, instead of the phyrexian arena.
Sideboard as follows:
3 duress
1 faerie macabre
2 surgical extraction
1 extirpate
2 infest (any deck that relies on swarms)
3 pithing needle
1 darkblast
1 dismember
1 crucible of worlds (again, never used this).
If you want to play wasteland in a land slot, rather than spell slot, then you should play Urborg.
Also, Darkblast rocks! Hard to say what is best: The Dredge ability (dredge 3!), which make playing tombstalkers easy, or they way it is brutal against creature decks. Last tourney i use it to kill more than i can remember. More than a dozen creatures for sure.
I can add that Darkblast, and Dakmor salvage, also has good synergy with spinning darkness. A welcome help vs burn.
I ran 22 lands total for that reason, since my mana needs usually stop at 2, with few exceptions - and there's dark ritual too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
If I should add mishras, then urborg would be an obligatory card... probably 3 of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Well, I'm still worry about consistency problem. So I have three comments about your lists:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sughayyer
(i) Tombstalker and Nihilith have no sinergy with the Poxes, because they will be discarded, or removed, and thats no sense.
(ii) (Maybe this is a mistake) Discard (Hymn to Tourach) sometimes seems to be too much in addition of land destruction (poxes and sinkhole): why discard if he or she can't cast as effect of land destruction?
(iii) What I like of your decklists, is than they are aggro-tempo oriented, and that brings clarity.
+++
In order to keep developing this fun deck, I was tinking in the concept of Poxes: Are control cards, because they give (i) disrruption, (ii) card advantage, and (iii) tempo-denial.
But is a problematic card, cause it also affects you. So to take advantage of the card, one have to construct all the list in order to sinergize with Poxes. Assuming than a decklist with Poxes always will be (i) disrruptive, it is usefull to note than it is almost impossible combine the (ii) card advantage with (iii) tempo-denial with competive results. So maybe is a good approach separate Pox lists in two strategy lines:
(a) mid-range control, focus in card advantage, and
(b) "aggro"/Tempo Pox, focus in tempo-denia,l analogous to the Mark Le Pine's "Speed Red".
(a) An example of the midrange control Pox:
13 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Cursed Scroll
4 Dark Ritual
1 Entomb
1 Nether Spirit
1 Bloodghast
1 Tombstalker
(b) An example of the "aggro"-tempo-denial Pox:
13 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
4 Innocent Blood
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit
So, tell me what you think. Would be better or worse than the common Pox lists?
@EdsonDettoni
In theory all this works. In theory.
The problem is, hand disruption will not win alone. Neither will land destruction.
A single well-timed threat can render the deck's control strategy useless, because we lack card selection. We get around the consistency problem through redundancy, but we are open to useless draws - if you devote about 60% of your deck to the pox-like control, chances are that you'll have a lot of dead draws past the first 3-4 turns. At that point pox already controlled the table, but these lists take so long to kill that allow te opponent to recover. If you want to go the slow durdle route, go BG.It's better at that.
If you want to go "no friends" route, go bw. It gives you even vindicate, a multi-purpose removal.
I'lll explain why there's no problem on the lack of synergy from nihilith and TS with the pox cards:
Look at how hard are those guys to get into play. If you suspend nihilith you'll have no worries about killing him - he's suspended and any card that you play will only help him go down faster. As for TS, when you cast him, you have already controlled the game (i mean it's delve 6, you must have cast at least 6 spells to get him down for 2 mana) . What I mean is: after either of these are on the field, you dont't NEED to keep on casting pox, smallpox, innocent blood, etc. If the occasion happens, you'll pinch bloodghast for the discard/sacrifice. That's why we pick creatures with evasion (fear/flying) - we set up the first few turns, get a dude online, and finish them off in 4/5 turns (at worse). At that point most things your opponent play will be irrelevant.
This point was made by Pox winning pilot Reid Duke himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdsonDettoni
"Knight of the Reliquary might be a powerful topdeck, but if they don't have the mana to cast her right away, she's a sitting duck for an Inquisition of Kozilek or even a Liliana +1!"
Pox is truly the ultimate expression of top deck killer. For opponents who think they can save themselves from me with a good topdeck, I question them doing it with 1 or no lands on the field. Liliana means their hand should never fill with cheap cmc cards anyway and they be kept unable to cast their 3+ mana spells.
I'd never build a pox deck without land kill AND targeted discard anymore.
It says "cards" actually, not spells (unlike Spinning Darkness). So playing Pox works even more in our favour since our own destroyed lands also counts^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Sughayyer
I'm aware of that, it was just an example - I mean we won't cast stalker before pox anyway, and if we do, we shouldn't need to cast pox (usually)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Hey guys,
I want to share some aspects with you:
1)I took Pox to GP Amsterdam and scrubbed out pretty early because I was buried in the card advantage of blue decks featuring Snapcaster Mage several times.
Often it came down to me playing Liliana of the Veil and my opponent casting a Snapcaster Mage EOT in order to bring Liliana back to 2 counters (in the end killing it).
The Mono-black-lists only run sorcery speed removal and are thus weak against creatures like Snapcaster Mage and Vendilion Clique.
2)Another big issue is the inability to deal with non-creature permanents like Counterbalance etc.
3) In other cases I wasn't able to deal with 2 creatures simultaneously because my opponent sacced his little dude for Innocent Blood/ Smallpox while beating me with his big dude.
4) Sometimes a Tempo-deck could beat me because all my removal in a removal-light hand was countered and Delver was ridden to victory.
This all leads to the inclusion of 1 card: Abrupt Decay. It was mentioned some posts ago and is a must-include in this deck in my opinion because it solves all the aforementioned problems at once.
Sensei's Divining Top is also very strong in a deck whose goal is to achieve Top deck mode.
I'm in favour of a light green splash adding Abrupt Decay and Loam:
4 Smallpox
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Life from the Loam
3 Sinkhole
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Cursed Scroll
2 Nether Spirit
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
7 Fetchlands
3 Swamp
4 Bayou
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
SB:
2 Crop Rotation
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Pithing Needle
2 Spinning Darkness
2 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction
Not sure about Loam without cycle lands!
Comments welcome!!!
@Smea.gol.lum
Darkblast is the answer to your problems. It is instant speed which will surprise your opponents, it can be cast in response to the triggered abilities of snapcaster and clique when they come into play, it can be cast twice in your turn, and even three times if you have card draw like top. It is a pain for elves stompy. It kills so many creatures in the format, and will continue to do so; because the mana curve in the format is so low and that is linked to the creatures toughness.
Cheap casting cost equals low toughness.
It is a 50 cent card were Life from the Loam and Abrupt Decay are 10$ cards.
To name a few good things...
I have three main deck and they are among my most valued cards. In fact it is better than sword to plowshares
Also, against counterbalance you have lots of options, but it depend on what is the problem: Terminus or counterbalance?
Darkblast is much more narrow than Abrupt Decay. It doesn't answer Goyf, Knight of the Reliquary and many more creatures while only killing 2-toughness-creatures like a flipped Delver with card disatvantage.
It doesn't do anything against Chalice of the Void, Jitte, Counterbalance, Crucible of Worlds, Sylvan Library, Aether Vial etc.
It can also be countered which plays a huge role, because there are many occasions in which a key creature has to come off the board like a Stoneforge Mystic with FOW backup that would vial in Batterskull otherwise.
This did hit at the beginning of the year, though a smaller tournament (53 players) it hit the top 6, landing on 5th http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...9&iddeck=72255
It's the closest thing I could find to todays date using the Council, the other 8 or so pox lists since have been mono black.
Nick Panagakos - Jan 5th 2013 - Cyborg One Super Legacy 2 (Doylestown, PA)
Creatures [1]
1 Nether Spirit
Instants [8]
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Dark Ritual
Sorceries [17]
1 Worm Harvest
2 Life from the Loam
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Sinkhole
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
Enchantments [2]
2 Pernicious Deed
Planeswalkers [4]
4 Liliana of the Veil
Artifacts [2]
2 Cursed Scroll
Lands [26]
2 Barren Moor
3 Marsh Flats
3 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
Sideboard [15]
2 Pithing Needle
1 Zuran Orb
4 Engineered Plague
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Extirpate
2 Spinning Darkness
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maelstrom Pulse
It is narrow since it only target creatures, but that is what people will use to kill you with unless they play combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smea.gol.lum
If it doesn't kill the Ghoyf it will the smaller guys letting you use nnocent blood and smallpox to maximum effectiveness. Also, it is NOT card disadvantage.
Well They are not really problems for us. Chalice is rarely played and your important spells cost two or more.Quote:
It doesn't do anything against Chalice of the Void, Jitte, Counterbalance, Crucible of Worlds, Sylvan Library, Aether Vial etc.
Jitte is useless without creatures, same with vial.
The rest are often lost to discard, or Lilianas ultimate.
That is situation dependant. Also if you do your draw phase trick to kill MSF your opponent will be tempted to counter it, that is a good bet. However it is risky for him aas it may leave him open for your smallpox.Quote:
It can also be countered which plays a huge role, because there are many occasions in which a key creature has to come off the board like a Stoneforge Mystic with FOW backup that would vial in Batterskull otherwise.
I could add to all that hardcore is saying the following statement:
If you want a control deck, do not play pox. Nor monoblack, nor bg, not even bw.
There are control decks that work on board control. These are Truffle Shuffle, Train Wreck, BUG landstill (deedstill). All of these can abuse graveyard recursion, play slowly (either take too long to kill or attempt to put fat guys/planeswalkers into play) and probably offer what you are searching for.
Nowadays the pox deck works VERY differently than it used to be, and it's perfectly fine, since decks and strategies evolve.
EDIT: Just an example: waay back, the great creatures were Vampire of Sengir and Serra Angel. Those had a high cmc. Today, we see tarmogoyf. 2 mana. KTR - 3 mana. Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration - 1 mana. Take too long to kill your opponent and you are bound to see him recovering. When that happens, you're back at stage 0 of your gameplan.
You can also try a lockdown strategy, but that's a different deck altogether - see how many cards Lands use to support it's strategy. Same for Stax.
I hope it wasn't all too confusing.. it's late at night in here and I'm sleepy.
I finished second overall at my local last night (15 players) with 2 wins and 1 tie.
Having enjoyed the recent discusion of this pox variation and that, I decided "Screw it! I just want to run an 8-Pox build and hit all resources mercilessly." Usually I run lists that use the graveyard but don't depend on it. This time though I went all in with a variation of Greg Russell's list linked in the primer.
I'm missing Tabernacle and Vindicate so I ran Maze of Ith and Liliana in their slots. I also swapped in one Entomb for a Crop Rotation. Sideboard was put together right before heading out the door
4x Barren Moor
1x Bayou
3x Overgrown Tomb
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cabal Pit
1x Marsh Flats
2x Maze of Ith
4x Mishra's Factory
1x Nantuko Monastery
2x Polluted Delta
2x Scrubland
1x Swamp
2x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Life from the Loam
4x Pox
4x Sinkhole
4x Smallpox
3x Liliana of the Veil
4x Mox Diamond
3x Crop Rotation
1x Entomb
1x Nether Spirit
1x Worm Harvest
Sideboard (15)
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Pithing Needle
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Raven's Crime
4 Can't remember
Games were
1-1 vs a homebrew Trading Post control-combo deck.
2-0 vs Jund
2-0 vs High Tide
I also played a few practice games after,
2-0 vs Dreadstill
1-1 vs MUD.
3-0 vs RUG, all on the draw
The deck leans on Mox Diamond for its early plays, running fewer one-drops (no Inquisition, Thoughtseize, or Innocent Blood) in order to run slower but more devastating effects.
Mox Diamond is a card I'd never quite understood, but it's absolutely sick in this style of Pox--and almost essential. Liliana had SOME games where she did heavy heavy lifting, but I really missed having the versatility of Vindicate or Abrupt Decay in the main.
Nantuko Monastery made a very respectable finisher with 4 land tutor effects and the ability to dredge into it with Loam.
I was fortunate not to run into serious gravehate.
I can't necessarily say it's the strongest way to build Pox, but that was the most fun I've had playing pox.
Congrats! I have brought newly built decks to tourneys and it never get better than 2-2.
Hey thanks! I got pretty lucky with match-ups and didn't face the worst gravehate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Playing the deck was enough fun that I nearly bought the Tabernacle I've been staring at for months on display at the store.
As we all know, 8-Pox builds are strong against decks running fewer, but high quality creature threats. The Tabernacle (with Crop Rotation) would help loads vs decks that try to spam the board with fodder to protect the better creatures from edict effects.
I had several games that were like
T1 Land, Mox Diamond, Hymn
T2 Land, Sinkhole
T3 Pox, discarding Life from the Loam
Dredge into Factories, Wastelands, ...
The biggest issues I notice are
1) Where to fit Abrupt Decay if not running Vindicate (or perhaps running both)
2) Sucks if you can't hit that first Loam. More dredge, dig, or tutor needed.
3) I'd like another win condition I can dredge into. Dredging loam and hitting Nether Spirit or Worm Harvest is productive.
Looking at
White: Vindicate, Lingering Souls, Nantuko Monastery, Ethersworn Canonist, maybe Sorin, Oblivion Ring (Side).
Blue: Intuition, Creeping Tar-Pit, Academy Ruins-->Artifact win condition, maybe a singleton Memory's Journey.
Akuta, born of ash should work well with Loam.
You all convinced me than in mirange control, loam pox is better (you can splash it white, obvius). The card advantage is huge.
I'm more interested in discuss about aggro tempo-denial.
About the card selection, thats why I include 4 Thoughtseize. And Hymn of tourach is obvius a great and devastating card in firsts turns. Maybe playing without the acceleration of Dark Ritual it is not so bad. As someone said, it always get out for SB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sughayyer
About the finishers and evasion. Tombstalker it is hard to cast, sometimes it must be discarded by pox effects, and is vulnerable to contermagic. Nihilith it is not vulnerable to counter magic, but is still too slow as top deck; and it is problematic to be castind before pox, wich makes it vulnerable to that. But I agree it is better.
"I get it. It is very clever". But that is about a midrange control pox.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
Darkblast seems to be a good discover. And it can be fetch by Entomb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
You said you wanted to go aggro-tempo... wouldn´t entomb be too slow in such a shell?Quote:
Darkblast seems to be a good discover. And it can be fetch by Entomb.
About the creatures, once more:
tombstalker being countered - the deck plays a lot of discard, if you have already poxed them they´ll probably have spent the counter on that OR they got no counters. remember that counterspells require mana to cast (wich you are destroying) or another card from their hands (in the case of FoW). Also, Nihilith can be stifled afther the last suspend counter is removed, for that matter.
For a while I played a bgw pox that used lingering souls, bloodghast and mishras as kill conditions. It NEEDED to hit a dredge spell to work properly, though,and I gave up on it.
Entomb brings for 1cc to the board Nether Spirit and Bloodghast; it is like an option to dredge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sughayyer
You are right about counter magic and Stifle.
Iirc Nihilith cannot be stifled, but it can be countered.
Hey guys, I don't really know if someone already suggested Tainted Aether for this deck. I was thinking this could be an alternative since I am unable to afford Nethervoids or The Abyss. Thoughts?
Thanks :)
Here's a draft of what I was planning on running:
Creatures - 1
1 Filth
Instants - 6
4 Dark Ritual
1 Spinning Darkness
1 Soulspike
Sorceries - 22
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
2 Raven's Crime
Enchantments - 3
2 Tainted Aether
1 Painful Quandary
Planeswalkers - 2
2 Liliana of the Veil
Artifacts - 3
3 Phyrexian Totem
Lands - 23
14 Swamp
1 Cabal Pit
2 Bojuka Bog
1 Tomb of Urami
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Sideboard
2 Pithing Needle
3 Engineered Plague
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Extirpate
2 Spinning Darkness
2 Perish
1 Tainted Aether
1 Damnation
Abyss and nethervoid are played because people think they are cool, and can afford to buy them. They are not necessarily the best cards for you.
Tainted Aether is bad because it is conditional, and painful quandary will be played too late to have much of effect. They both have the advantage of being immune to abrupt decay.
The filth have no use with so few creatures in your deck. Besides it is also conditional: if your opponents have swamps, And you have creatures that can attack, THEN...
Phyrexian totem is nice, but cost too much to use.
Unless you want to play Liliana fast you have not much need for dark rituals. You are not running Pox either and won't have so much mana problem that you need rituals.
Soul Spike is a sideboard card against Storm decks.
Raven's crime is nice and suggest you should run The Rack as kill condition. Four of them. Too many Pox players make the mistake of playing Just one or two.
One can get very fast kills with multiples of the track in play
Also, if you want to be mean and cruel try add four ankh of mishra to your deck. With all the land destruction they will be nasty.
Thank you! Your feedback is most appreciated.
I haven't been able to test the build I posted yet but would be making your suggested changes.
I am also considering leaning towards the discard pox build. Although at the moment I don't have access to Pox and Lili 3-4
I was wondering if Death Cloud Goes well with a Mox Diamond-build. I would think so, but what are your opinions? Sure, it costs more, but it give me the feeling of being able to be precise.
"When the last is removed, cast it without paying its mana cost."Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
If you use Stifle on that trigger the Nihilith will stay in Exile indefinitely.
It is in the exile zone so I am not sure you can target the card with anything. I have no idea but will keep looking.
However, Digging in rules I found that suspend does not use the stack. Easy to overlook.
Suspend uses the stack like anything else but Morph and you can just Stifle the ability that says "when the last time counter is removed, you may put this spell on the stack" or something similar.
Here's my discard pox proposed build. Hopefully I'd be able to test it within the week.
Creatures - 4
4 Bloodghast
Spells 22
2 Raven's Crime
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek (blackmail)
4 Funeral Charm
4 Smallpox
4 Innocent Blood
Permanents - 10
2 Liliana of the Veil (working on getting 2 more)
2 Phyrexian Totem
3 Shrieking Affliction
3 The Rack
Lands - 24
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
3 Wasteland
16 Swamp (I don't own factories)
Sideboard
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Extirpate
4 Duress
2 Infest
3 Perish
2 - free slot - Needles?
I'm also thinking if wasteland is really necessary for this build.
Your deck is great. Congratulations. 8-Pox is the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sockosensei
About "biggest isues":
1) I don't know what to say, but you will know it after testing (very obvius).
2) + 1 Entomb (to use Crop Rotation is a refreshing idea).
3) Sinegized win conditions for Pox, I only know in black: Nether Spirit, Bloodghast, Gravecrawler + Mutavault, Akuta, Born of Ash, and Nim Devourer (not so good, but attacks 4).
My observations:Quote:
Originally Posted by abetman
-1 (or -2) Raven's Crime. Difficults landfall for Bloodghast.
- 2 Funeral Charm (at least). Have you considered Wrench Mind or Nezumi shortfang?
(-4 bloodghast) if you are not running manlands, why not use Ensnaring Bridge on main?
I love Funeral Charm, It really does a lot, especially when getting your opponent into top deck mode. It really only has two abilities, unless you plan on using it with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth with a late game finisher.
I have been toying with a one of Words of Waste, but I main deck Ensnaring Bridge, and use Words of Waste along with Liliana to keep my hand empty for Ensnaring Bridge.
I used to fight against Wasteland, but its a 60 dollar uncommon for a reason. In Legacy, lands are an obvious premium, and Wasteland is really the best form of land destruction.
I dont really play Pox competitively, I take it to tournaments, and love it, but I really cant bring myself to play anything but 8-Pox. It is impossible for me.
Big Pox was crushing last week.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by EdsonDettoni
Since Liliana was printed I've heard it said that she replaces Pox. I very much enjoyed having both.
Having so many cards I don't mind discarding, running 29 land to rebuild, and Loam-Wasteland for a soft lock make it feel that much better.
I posted earlier that, "I can't necessarily say it's the strongest way to build Pox." What I meant was that it has major vulnerabilities--namely gravehate. The raw power of the deck is awesome, and much of that is tied in with Pox.
1) I hope so. Russell's original list had 3 Vindicates, which I look at as a the flex slots for the moment.Quote:
About "biggest isues":
1) I don't know what to say, but you will know it after testing (very obvius).
2) + 1 Entomb (to use Crop Rotation is a refreshing idea).
3) Sinegized win conditions for Pox, I only know in black: Nether Spirit, Bloodghast, Gravecrawler + Mutavault, Akuta, Born of Ash, and Nim Devourer (not so good, but attacks 4).
2) I ran a 3/1 Rotation-Entomb split last week. I'd consider a 2/2 or even 4 Entombs (like Ali Aintrazi's build) except I recently sold off the rest of my Entombs!
3) I think I'll add 1-2 Bloodghast. They can be played for mana if need be, and they come in for free.
I looked at Akuta, but having to sac a swamp--even with Loam-- is a big price.
No doubt they're expensive and they require a bit of building around. They're way more than just cool inclusions, though; Nether Void is one of the strongest, most abusive cards I've ever seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore