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Manlands might still be possible. He did say they're "brand new designs" which indicates no allied manlands but it could mean enemy manlands (which would be new cards and therefore new designs) and allied something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
Something's gotta give with that format. I'm never going to start playing because the prices are too good not to keep selling things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
Yup. Just another day in the office for Legacy/Vintage players, but Modern Players are going to start feeling the squeeze if/when stuff like Tarn creeps back above $75.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
Also, I'm more than willing to admit I was wrong about this one. I figured WotC wanted to try to help make Modern a real format, instead of a gimmicky new-age extended. I was wrong.
What do you mean by that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellomdian
Tarn is already above $75 on TCG now. These price spikes, buyouts and speculating are getting completely bonkers.
Unfortunately they will likely stay that way for a while as well. wizards needs to start re-printing the expensive cards in sufficient quantities to affect their price, but seem to be afraid to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosque
They're not afraid. Big reprints sell sets. They're managing reprint equity by metering the high-value stuff out slowly.Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmcc13
Just because there are more different fetchlands in the card pool, you don't play much more fetchlands in a deck. They're not even good in Standard in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Seth
Painlands and Fetchlands are very different. I see no "even".Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Seth
Allies care only about Allies.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReAnimator
They're managing shit (concerning second market prices, which are starting to become a REAL problem)!Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
Shit, Battle for Zendikar just died (for me).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Seth
Eldrazi stink anyways!
WotC makes the same mistake as pulling out Liliana of the Veil out of M15. That's just dumb in terms of managing Modern (and Legacy) prices! WotC should show the speculators that MTG is a game for players and not for finance speculators. Every card that goes over 50 EUR should be consequently reprinted to keep its price in check.
All 10 fetchs standard legal at the same time, is ridiculus.
But ZEN fetches need to be reprinted...how about COMM2015? They are declared as "enemy-color bicolor decks".
Would be a bit inconsistent to reprint them in Commander product, but would help the prices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokugawa
Are we hoping that Wizards 'serum visions is a 15 dollar common that hadn't been reprinted despite numerous opportunities to do so' of the Coast will do something to significantly effect prices of expensive staples?
Exactly what I was thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokugawa
There'd still be an increase, plus it makes more decks play them.Quote:
Originally Posted by joven
Fetchlands are great in Standard. I've got no idea what you're talking about here.Quote:
They're not even good in Standard in my opinion.
Each color combination gets the same number of dual lands, and those dual lands are all on about the same power level (we're not talking about, say, the enemy colors getting Guildgates and the allied colors getting shocklands). So yes, pretty darn even.Quote:
Painlands and Fetchlands are very different. I see no "even".
Liliana of the Veil would've completely ruined what was already a not particularly great Standard. Everyone was tired of Monoblack Devotion dominating the format, and Liliana of the Veil would've been to Monoblack Devotion what Batterskull was to Caw-Blade.Quote:
WotC makes the same mistake as pulling out Liliana of the Veil out of M15. That's just dumb in terms of managing Modern (and Legacy) prices!
Maybe it was "dumb" in terms of managing Modern and Legacy prices, but keeping her in would've been even more dumb in terms of keeping people happy with their most popular format.
This makes sense from Marketing perspective. Introducing the Zendikar fetches in the block after this one will leave fetch in standard after Khans block rotates out. Plus it makes buying boosters more interesting. My guess will be that fetches makes appearance in the following block. Plus that he spoke of "cool dual lands", which might have interaction with fetch. So that would complement keeping fetch around longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Seth
Avatar of the Resolute is not Renown but he plays really well in the Renown deck. Last time there were what 12 Allies that got +1/+1 counters when another entered play? There is scope for them to interact well with all the add counters cards. I expect the whole cycle will be casual/limited fodder.Quote:
Originally Posted by joven
They announced full art basics; they do not need anything else to sell the set. It could also be the ultimate troll and they are putting Zen fetches in the second set of Battle which would mean 10 Fetches for 3-4 months in Standard before Khans rotates out.Quote:
Originally Posted by joven
I completely understand the "reprint equity" theory of explaining reprints (or lack thereof), but it's hard not to think Wizards is riding the tiger a bit here. Certainly having a stable of expensive reprints, waiting in the wings to "sell" sets is a good thing for Wizards, but player dissatisfaction with price instability could also seriously impact their bottom line. Prices too high across the board lead to players branding Magic a pay-to-win game and possibly leaving in droves; I'm certain player retention is reasonably important to Hasbro, if not as important as acquisition. So there's certainly motivation to keep prices "reasonable" (yeah, that's an extremely vague term, I know).Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
At this point, Wizards has a huge "savings account" of money cards, such that they could go hogwild on reprints and scarcely be able to reduce all staples' prices. Think of all the expensive lands they can reprint. Just limited to Modern, they have Zendikar fetches, Shadowmoor/Eventide Filters, Future Sight duals, Worldwake manlands, Scars fastlands, and (perhaps eventually) Innistrad checklands. Where are these all going to fit in a short time period? It would likely take 3-4 years for all these to see print between Standard sets and supplemental products. That's time for a lot of price spikes/gouges and unhappy players.
Perhaps they need to be a bit more proactive in reprinting expensive staples when they have the rare opportunity (like not stuffing Modern Masters 2015 with tons of crap and a few chase cards); it's not like every staple can easily fit a Standard expansion or a $20 MSRP Duel Deck without throwing things greatly out of whack within the game or the market. They handcuff themselves so much with regards to reprints that they don't really need to be all too careful in the few occasions open to them.
But...a set will sell like gangbusters even with only one relevant reprint in it - look at the dreck that was Theros, with only Thoughtseize to its name as a long-term Constructed-playable card. The set was boring, linear, and still had good sales figures as far as we can tell from earnings reports. They don't need to dump all these high-value, hype-generating reprints as quickly as possible - dribbling out a cycle here, a single card there is sufficient both to build hype and sales figures for a set and also keep Modern from reaching Legacy levels of buy in price.
Because, let's face it, it's still possible to get into Modern on a budget in a way you can't really get into Legacy on a budget, at least not anymore. Infect is still reasonably cheap if you substitute Khans fetches for Misty Rainforests. Burn can be built cheaply if you don't go full hog on splashing. The most expensive part of weird Tier II metagame decks like Living End are the lands, and it's still possible to build a functional but not optimal manabase in Modern. Mono-blue Merfolk isn't hideous. Sure, none of these are the best deck, but they're still reasonable if you're just going to an FNM or something.
In Legacy, most of the still truly budget decks have been relegated to Tier 2.5 or worse status. The closest jump I can think of from a reasonable Modern deck to a reasonable Legacy deck is Elves, and Cradles are murderously expensive these days.
I came close to buying a Marsh Flats and an Arid Mesa to finish a set of 5 (4 for Constructed and 1 for Cube), but then I closed Paypal and decided to wait for the inevitable reprints. :tongue:
I'd be thrilled if we got enemy color manlands. I'd be ecstatic if the theoretical enemy color manlands had basic land types (and had appropriate drawbacks so as not to be totally busted).
I think the "best-selling set" trend is tied to Wizards' focus on limited. When they first announced PPTQs, they could be any format. Now they have to be weekends either Sealed or the corresponding Pro Tour's format. You see a lot of Sealed PPTQs in Modern season especially so mooks can live the dream of opening siiiqqq mythics and spiking the tournament without having to buy any scaarryy fetchlands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
Could the cool new lands be the Future sight cycle ? Grove, Canopy etc.
RIIIIGGGHHHHHTTTT cause Hardened Scales totally wouldn't work with Allies at all! Nor any of the outlast guys that give everything with a counter an additional ability. Good point, nice chat.Quote:
Originally Posted by joven
Allies trigger only off Allies, so you really want to max out on Ally creatures, so little space is left for other random synergies from other sets/blocks. And you need all those pesky Ally creatures that just come from one Set/Block.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReAnimator
And Ally is a stupid creature type anyway. What is an Ally? It's not a race and not a profession. It's a happenstance. Why is it a creature type??
1. Fetchlands aren't real duallands. They are not able to permanently make mana of two different colors. Which is a problem for some decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Seth
2. There are no fetchable duallands in the Standard card pool and I'm pretty sure there won't be any soon.
3. There are much less opportunities to shuffle away unwanted stuff in Standard. (Only Courser comes to mind, which will rotate soon.)
That's what the banlist is for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Seth
Tick off people and make basic deckbuilding cards inaccessible. Great marketing!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
The same is largely true about slivers, but I don't see a lot of whining about them.Quote:
Originally Posted by joven
That's true.Quote:
...What is a Ally? It's not a race and not a profession. It's a happenstance. Why is it a creature type??
It's like a Rebel. :tongue:
Creature type - 'Fuck you mooooooom'Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
It wouldn't be the 'cycle'. It would be a cycle with one of those lands. Like Graven Cairns in Shadowmoor, for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibelius
I think a River of Tears cycle would make some interesting decisions with the enemy pain lands and fetches around.
Uh... yes they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by joven
You still get your pick of two colors. You might not be able to change it afterwards, but it does mean you get the choice.Quote:
They are not able to permanently make mana of two different colors.
As is having to take more damage from painlands than from fetchlands. It's a tradeoff.Quote:
Which is a problem for some decks.
So? You said they weren't good in Standard. They are good. They just aren't as amazing as they are in the nonrotating formats. It's like how Treasure Cruise is good in Standard but not as bonkers powerful as it was in Legacy.Quote:
2. There are no fetchable duallands in the Standard card pool and I'm pretty sure there won't be any soon.
See my note above.Quote:
3. There are much less opportunities to shuffle away unwanted stuff in Standard. (Only Courser comes to mind, which will rotate soon.)
Having to ban cards in Standard is always a huge loss to publicity. Sometimes, in the case of a monstrous screw-up, it's unavoidable, but it's something they really, really want to avoid.Quote:
That's what the banlist is for.
Tick people off and make a 1-deck format. Great marketing!Quote:
Tick off people and make basic deckbuilding cards inaccessible. Great marketing!
I feel the big problem with a River of Tears cycle is it feels like you have to make it a 20-card cycle for it to be even. For example, in addition to River of Tears, you'd want a one that gives you Black mana normally and Blue mana if you played a land.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrsthethird
I mean, I guess they could have it be a 10-card cycle, but it feels lacking because of the way it doesn't put the two colors on "equal" footing like every single other dual land has.
aaaaaaaaaaaaand siggedQuote:
Originally Posted by Dissection
So either Joven is a troll, or just really really stupid, it's probably in everyone's best interest to just ignore him from now on.
I don't think that's a huge issue. I like it because it harkens back to nostalgia from two different blocks; Future Sight for the reprint, and original Zendikar for the "landfall". Although, since it's "played a land" and not Landfall, it doesn't work exactly how they'd like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Seth
Perhaps...they could redo them with Landfall and basic land types. i.e.
Island of Darknes
Land - Island
(T: Add :u:; reminder text for the noobs)
Landfall - If a land entered the battlefield under your control this turn, this becomes a Swamp until end of turn.
OR
Landfall - If a land entered the battlefield under your control this turn, this produces :b: instead of :u: until end of turn.
Anything similar makes decisions interesting in standard, and doesn't necessarily require an equal distribution. Just as long as each color pair is represented in the same fashion; each ally pair changes to the one on the left, or each enemy pair changes to the one that's only 2 away. Two bonuses: anything with Landfall on the card pairs interestingly with Khans fetches for 3 months, in addition to Evolving Wilds and the like, and second, this is a different space to play with the idea of fetchable duals.
After fleshing this out, I doubt that River of Tears will ever be completed, but rather a starting point for a cool cycle sometime soon or down the road.
I hate Slivers. I can whine about them. They're overpowered and uncreative and boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus
Be nice, I'm just stating my opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReAnimator
Slivers are overpowered you heard it here first.Quote:
Originally Posted by joven
Fetchlands are functionally identical to dual lands as long as their activated ability is on the stack or they're in play and you're at more than 1 life. Unless of course you're implying that you have no targets for the fetchland in the deck or just one option and not the other (like having just islands in deck but no swamps for a polluted delta.) Just so happens that there's a rumor that there are fetchable duals in BFZ whether it's true or not we have yet to see conclusively, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were. Every once in a while fetchable nonbasics are printed last time they did so was shadowmoor/8 years ago or so.
Some competitive option of lands that aren't fetches I think would be great for the game because I think fetches have a strategic edge to them that a regular land cycle simply doesn't have . the game would be more interesting if you could play a land mana base that wasn't fetches but was different.
a land you could play either face up as 1 land type or face down as another would be really cool to me or whatever I mean two sided lands. Maybe you'd be able to fetch them but they'd only tap for 1 colour out of the two.
I get the feeling the Lands will likely be the Enemy Man lands.
:wb: - first strike, deathtouchQuote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
:wr: - double strike
:ur: - prowess
:ug: - scroll thief
:bg: - something something graveyard?
There was a time before fetches, in the days before Legacy was a format ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll_ov_Grimness
People played more duals, mainly. Painlands were pretty common. City of Brass saw a lot more play. Wasteland wasn't as playable because tempo decks lacked early pressure. Tarmogoyf was the best thing that ever happened to Wasteland.
If you enjoy formats without fetches, Standard is often without them. I hear that's changing, though. R&D used to be less in favor of color fixing than they are now.
Color fixing lands sell packs.Quote:
Originally Posted by ESG
Looks like Avenger of Zendikar is back, therefore Landfall is also back.
EDIT: Actually I take this back - Avenger is just in the Duel Decks with new art. Not confirmed for BFZ...