Curse Stompy (Demon Stompy Reborn)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kinda

I don't think you want very much redundancy actually. The wheels are pretty bad without hullbreacher or narset in play and ~30% or so of decks still don't run draw engines, making those lists pretty high variance. I rly like just focusing on some anti draw hate (6-10 pieces) with some light synergy for these thrown in (2-4 wheels). Then a SB focused on removing this stuff when you're vs. Dnt or moon stompy or goblins or burn or cloudpost etc...

---

There is a lot of different points you are making.

1. You want more things that hate on draws. I agree, but other than ugxxx chaliceand 3ball already hate out all draw effects, while protecting curses from interaction and more relevant in other mus.

2. You don’t want too much hate on the same thing. Yah that’s why I don’t want these cards in addition to 3ball md. Additionally it makes hate with different angles of attack (agent instead of Hullbreacher) better.

3. You would like to have a mini combo with your hate pieces. My point about was redundancy was assuming you wanted to make a dedicated chalice combo deck.if you just want a small synergy to raise the floor of the effect in mus where it is not relevant, wheel and deal plus Hullbreacher seems worse than field of ruin plus agent. Better mana, more relevant hatepiece by itself (vs 12post/depths/delver), and an untapped land is a much better floor than a 3 mana can trip.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

There is a lot of different points you are making.

1. You want more things that hate on draws. I agree, but other than ugxxx chaliceand 3ball already hate out all draw effects, while protecting curses from interaction and more relevant in other mus.

2. You don’t want too much hate on the same thing. Yah that’s why I don’t want these cards in addition to 3ball md. Additionally it makes hate with different angles of attack (agent instead of Hullbreacher) better.

3. You would like to have a mini combo with your hate pieces. My point about was redundancy was assuming you wanted to make a dedicated chalice combo deck.if you just want a small synergy to raise the floor of the effect in mus where it is not relevant, wheel and deal plus Hullbreacher seems worse than field of ruin plus agent. Better mana, more relevant hatepiece by itself (vs 12post/depths/delver), and an untapped land is a much better floor than a 3 mana can trip.

---

Good points! I think the biggest difference in our thinking is how good 3sphere is. I'm not thrilled with it right now due to oko, I went down to 2 but considered even going down to 0. But I definitely could be wrong!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kinda

Good points! I think the biggest difference in our thinking is how good 3sphere is. I'm not thrilled with it right now due to oko, I went down to 2 but considered even going down to 0. But I definitely could be wrong!

---

Trinisphere is still a house. It keeps them from hitting the 3 mana for Oko by shutting down their cantrips, with the bonus of making Force of Will/Negation, Daze, etc way worse. By the time they can Oko it, the damage is done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hanni

Trinisphere is still a house. It keeps them from hitting the 3 mana for Oko by shutting down their cantrips, with the bonus of making Force of Will/Negation, Daze, etc way worse too. By the time they can Oko it, the damage is done.

---

Trinisphere can be bad in certain mus, but its the reason our good matchups are good. Its the best thing to be doing against gaak, elves, storm, doomsday (other than agent), and still great vs most blue hands as a defense grid with upside. I feel like a large portion of our free wins are 3ball into karn.

If you want a synergic combo hate piece, I would go with a single Maralen replacing a single Helm (or replacing an eliminate). Its an instant win combo if they dont have an answer already in hand,similar to Helm. It combos with any of the 4 Agents in the deck similar to how Helm combos with any of the 4 Leylines in the deck. It can even tutor up Opposition agent if you dont already have one in hand and it doest require a color splash/more nonbasics like Wheel and Deal does.

The occasional chrome mox + any land + ritual + ritual + agent + maralen opening play has got to be satisfying.

Maralen is a pretty great combo with vial; but without it it is incredibly fragile by itself. Losing to oko in hand, on the battlefield or in their deck is rough.

To be fair, Opposition Agent combos extremely well with Trinisphere for attacking the opponent on that angle. Even better if you can manage to run Wasteland to further pinch manabases. There is certainly an argument for running Field of Ruin instead, but that might be too slow; I don't know.

Karn also seems pretty sweet at attacking Astrolabe and artifact mana, while tutoring for strong artifacts to either kill or lockout the opponent.

So in short, I don't see what you gain by splashing blue. At the point where you start splashing blue, you're better off building an Echo deck, I think.

I registered field of the dead instead of field of ruin, and played horribly, but got 4-3 anyways :D.

Chains performed significantly better than I remember the last time I tried them, but sylvan library and uro are considerably more played now than last spring I think.

_____

In other news someone 5-0'd with a hybrid of curses and eldrazi post:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

I registered field of the dead instead of field of ruin, and played horribly, but got 4-3 anyways :D.

Chains performed significantly better than I remember the last time I tried them, but sylvan library and uro are considerably more played now than last spring I think.

_____

In other news someone 5-0'd with a hybrid of curses and eldrazi post:

---

Those two r definitely up. Wut did your list look like?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kinda

Those two r definitely up. Wut did your list look like?

---

https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...cheep_th_place

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...cheep_th_place

---

Awesome list and very impressive finish considering misregistering with Field of the Dead instead of Field of Ruin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hanni

To be fair, Opposition Agent combos extremely well with Trinisphere for attacking the opponent on that angle. Even better if you can manage to run Wasteland to further pinch manabases. There is certainly an argument for running Field of Ruin instead, but that might be too slow; I don't know.

---

Even though field of ruin in a vacuum is considerably worse than wasteland, I had a few arguments for it:

1. Against the vast majority of opponents, you are considerably more mana hungry than your opponent so setting both people back lands is detrimental.
2. Related to the above, field of ruin can be an excellent curve filler between say a t1 chalice and a t3 curse/karn, whereas wasteland obviously doesn't curve into 4 drops nicely.
3. Field of Ruin is a black source in a pinch, so it is less painful in a mana base which already has 8 colourless lands.
4. Forced shuffle is a very nice combo with opposition agent, turning it into essentially a 3 mana uncounterable mwonvuli acid-moss stapled to a lay of the land.

_____

In other news, one of the more prolific rector fit pilots made a sweet video/gif for me. I added the gif version to the primer.

I went 0-4-bye in the Saturday challenge and 3-4 in the Sunday challenge with a md 4x Agent 2x field list. The meta was incredibly blue, with 7/11 mus being wasteland daze decks.

Even after many matches, I am having a lots of difficulty evaluating if agent is good or not.

Pros:

• Against almost any deck a few games it just straight up wins by stealing their first fetches.
  
  With field you can get some pretty great mana advantage/denial.
  
  It is an insanely good hate Piece vs all the non brainstorm bad mus. Titanpost/depths/maverick.
  
  A real clock has been helpful in some matchups or if you never draw a payoff.
  
  It’s very good in matchups where removal is mediocre or bad (doomsday/elves/storm/gaakk)
  
  Having a threat that can’t be fon’d is nice.

Cons:

• With no other mana denial the stealing a land was often irrelevant.
  
• It’s a flash 3/2 vs Urza echo, the most popular chalice deck.
  
• Having creatures G1 turns on the opponents bolts and plows.
  
• It cuts into your oko and delver answers.
  
• It requires you to cut urborg, making your delver mu and 1BB cards worse.
• Holding it up can make sequencing awkward.
• Field of ruin cuts into your t1 black sources

After further mulling, I think agent is not quite good enough to maindeck. Having eliminate for the first threat is just so important and I undervalued the utility of urborg and being creatureless g1.

Agent is still so good vs green decks and combo that it deserves multiple sideboard slots.

I think I need a bit more gas from my lands and chains to beat fair blue, which is everywhere.

I think I will stick with the below list for a while, and concentrate my brewing juices on making court poxless pox ie monarch MBC work.


4 ancient tomb
4 City of Traitors l
2 Ifnir Deadlands
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
6 Swamps
4 Pelakka Predation // Pelakka Caverns

4 Dark Ritual
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Trinisphere
4 Eliminate
4 Leyline of the Void

2 Helm of Obedience
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Curse of Misfortunes
1 Curse of Death’s Hold
1 Cruel Reality
1 Overwhelming Splendor

3 Plague Engineer
3 Opposition Agent
3 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Mycrosynth Lattice
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Liquimettal Coating

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

After further mulling, I think agent is not quite good enough to maindeck. Having eliminate for the first threat is just so important and I undervalued the utility of urborg and being creatureless g1.

Agent is still so good vs green decks and combo that it deserves multiple sideboard slots.

I think I need a bit more gas from my lands and chains to beat fair blue, which is everywhere.

I think I will stick with the below list for a while, and concentrate my brewing juices on making court poxless pox ie monarch MBC work.


4 ancient tomb
4 City of Traitors l
2 Ifnir Deadlands
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
6 Swamps
4 Pelakka Predation // Pelakka Caverns

4 Dark Ritual
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Trinisphere
4 Eliminate
4 Leyline of the Void

2 Helm of Obedience
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Curse of Misfortunes
1 Curse of Death’s Hold
1 Cruel Reality
1 Overwhelming Splendor

3 Plague Engineer
3 Opposition Agent
3 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Mycrosynth Lattice
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Liquimettal Coating

---

Is there a reason you dropped 1 chains from the side board in your most recent league.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obamamw3

Is there a reason you dropped 1 chains from the side board in your most recent league.

---

3rd chains vs 4th Plague engineer is personal preference. It depends on how popular you think UGxxx durdle is vs elves/gaak to punish the durdle. Imo the pe maps out cleaner (you don’t really have enough cuts vs durdle) but durdle mus are more common. 1 Liliana the last hope or dystopia can be a middle ground (sort of ok vs both decks)

Played in the Sunday challenge. Went 3-0 non oko fair blue, 0-3 oko blue, 1-0 everything else. All the losses were close 1-2s so I think the deck only needs small changes to be great.

Meta is incredibly durdle heavy; even delver is mostly gone. All the blue hate in peoples’ sideboards means they r less equipped for us. I just need a plan to beat the fow, fow oko playstyle.

I really need something that can cheaply deal with their counter magic; I have tried Everything 3 cmc and they were lacklustre. Options I have been considering:

Thoughtseize:
fastest way to deal with their answers but has the chalice and ancient tomb problem. One of the best black cards for a reason.

Defense grid: great with tombs and dark ritual. In the past I have had issues where it doesn’t synergise well with trinisphere. However I was usually slowing down after board for oko removal. If instead I cut all the removal vs durdle grid could be quite good in an all in t1 protection t2 win build.

Draft list if I take the “go fasta” approach recommended earlier by kinda and FTW.
Because of all the durdle I thought a little shakier mana was worth more oko answers: split the extra utility lands into a basic and a spyglass



4 ancient tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
7 Swamp
4 Pelakka Predation // Pelakka Caverns

4 Dark Ritual
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Trinisphere
4 Eliminate
4 Leyline of the Void

2 Helm of Obedience
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Curse of Misfortunes
1 Curse of Death’s Hold
1 Cruel Reality
1 Overwhelming Splendor

4 Plague Engineer
3 Opposition Agent
2 Defense Grid
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Mycrosynth Lattice
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Liquimettal Coating

Boarding would be:

Vs Ugxx
Plus helm, grids, agents
Minus eliminates, urborgs (b/c agent)

Vs RUG
Plus helm, spyglass, grids
Minus Karns.

This is a large departure from my previous plans of cutting drit for oko removal/chains/dreamstealer and Karn for oko removal/plague engineer respectively.

I'd consider just not running the stompy package right now and leaning into Cavern of Souls. Something like this.

Edit: might want some lilly walkers too.


4 ancient tomb
1 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Swamp
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Phyrexian Tower

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Pithing Needle
4 Eliminate
3 Bloodchief's Thirst
2 Opposition Agent
4 Academy Rector
4 Plague Engineer
4 Curse of Misfortunes
1 Curse of Death’s Hold
1 Cruel Reality
1 Overwhelming Splendor

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kinda

I'd consider just not running the stompy package right now and leaning into Cavern of Souls. Something like this.


4 ancient tomb
1 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Swamp
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Phyrexian Tower

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Pithing Needle
4 Eliminate
3 Bloodchief's Thirst
2 Opposition Agent
4 Academy Rector
4 Plague Engineer
4 Curse of Misfortunes
1 Curse of Death’s Hold
1 Cruel Reality
1 Overwhelming Splendor

---

I think that is a decent idea, but if you are cutting chalice and 3ball for cabal therapy and removal, the sol lands and dark ritual lose some of their lustre. I think that build just becomes rector/curse fit, which may indeed be a better choice in this blue meta.

Cabal therapy and rector are going to be pretty bad without each other, whereas leyline and Karn have higher floors.

Also You are going to depend more on creature beats in this build and you have no leyline; uro could be an issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

I think that is a decent idea, but if you are cutting chalice and 3ball for cabal therapy and removal, the sol lands and dark ritual lose some of their lustre. I think that build just becomes rector/curse fit, which may indeed be a better choice in this blue meta.

Cabal therapy and rector are going to be pretty bad without each other, whereas leyline and Karn have higher floors.

Also You are going to depend more on creature beats in this build and you have no leyline; uro could be an issue.

---

One could argue cutting chalice improves dark ritual in the deck :tongue:. I still really like the fast mana, I'm viewing it as a deadguy ale curses hybrid.

Therapy I think will still be strong on its own but Rector if you don't find therapy or phyrexian tower isn't the best..
but it'll still stop uro from attacking all day. In a pinch you could blow it up with your own Bloodchief's Thirst too.

Yeah the plan vs uro G1 is to resolve Rector or Misfortunes before turn 6 which should be very doable I think. Then the SB will need some uro answers.

Hmm I think that deck is decent but without chalice, Karn, leyline and 3ball the matchups would be so different. It would probably be better to get input from dga/pox players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

Hmm I think that deck is decent but without chalice, Karn, leyline and 3ball the matchups would be so different. It would probably be better to get input from dga/pox players.

---

Oh I'm not fussed on exploring the list more, just thinking how curses could help its snoreko mu :cool:. This is wut I could come up with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kinda

Oh I'm not fussed on exploring the list more, just thinking how curses could help its snoreko mu :cool:. This is wut I could come up with.

---

Are you still of the opinion that drit plus grid is a better plan than oko removal plus discard. (In the context of my list)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

Are you still of the opinion that drit plus grid is a better plan than oko removal plus discard. (In the context of my list)

---

The last list you posted has 10 win cons: 4 ktgc 4 Misfortunes 2 Helm. 6 of these though need leyline in play, which when factoring in mulliganing is 50% ish. This is 10/60th of your deck so over the first 5 turns you will see 1.4 on average (4+(6*.5)/60) * (7 in opener plus 5 draws). 4c snow it looks like is running 4 fow plus 2 fon which stop these 10. But on top top of their natural draws will see something like 8-15 more cards over their first 5 turns to find these due to labe/library/ponder/bstorm/snow snek etc. So estimating here (6/60) * (7+5+~11) which is 2.3 or so. So we need to make up the difference here since they're winning currently 2.3 >= 1.4. Your old list has chalice to lower their '8-15' extra cards number and 3sphere/pelakka to try and lower their fon/fow count. However, when you begin using cmc 3 or less permanents (especially artifacts) to fight their counters you turn on more of their cards (decay/oko). Which unless you resolve chalice that they can't remove, they will again see more answers than you see 3 sphere/CotV. 4 pelakka gives you (4/60) * (12/60) over 5 turns or an extra .8 (assuming you never need the mana) but you're still losing here 2.3 >= 2.2. So, no I do not like the permanent based protection plan and yes I like using fast mana to try and improve your clock.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kinda

The last list you posted has 10 win cons: 4 ktgc 4 Misfortunes 2 Helm. 6 of these though need leyline in play, which when factoring in mulliganing is 50% ish. This is 10/60th of your deck so over the first 5 turns you will see 1.4 on average (4+(6*.5)/60) * (7 in opener plus 5 draws). 4c snow it looks like is running 4 fow plus 2 fon which stop these 10. But on top top of their natural draws will see something like 8-15 more cards over their first 5 turns to find these due to labe/library/ponder/bstorm/snow snek etc. So estimating here (6/60) * (7+5+~11) which is 2.3 or so. So we need to make up the difference here since they're winning currently 2.3 >= 1.4. Your old list has chalice to lower their '8-15' extra cards number and 3sphere/pelakka to try and lower their fon/fow count. However, when you begin using cmc 3 or less permanents (especially artifacts) to fight their counters you turn on more of their cards (decay/oko). Which unless you resolve chalice that they can't remove, they will again see more answers than you see 3 sphere/CotV. 4 pelakka gives you (4/60) * (12/60) over 5 turns or an extra .8 (assuming you never need the mana) but you're still losing here 2.3 >= 2.2. So, no I do not like the permanent based protection plan and yes I like using fast mana to try and improve your clock.

---

So you would rather run discard and dark ritual? Do you think the efficiency of Thoughtseize outweighs the chalice and ancient tomb problems?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

So you would rather run discard and dark ritual? Do you think the efficiency of Thoughtseize outweighs the chalice and ancient tomb problems?

---

Post SB they bring in veil, Opposition Agent, and meddling mage so you need to keep in your eliminates too g2/3. I prefer discard and fast mana md but overall I see the deck as a losing proposition vs. the 6+ force decks...as explained above. Which is why I pitched the Bw Cavern list before. Your deck math is pretty simple though due to 0 draw, filtering, or tutors. I would just keep fiddling with it till you get numbers you're OK with, but I don't ever see the 6+ force matchup being good unless you radically change things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kinda

Post SB they bring in veil, Opposition Agent, and meddling mage so you need to keep in your eliminates too g2/3. I prefer discard and fast mana md but overall I see the deck as a losing proposition vs. the 6+ force decks...as explained above. Which is why I pitched the Bw Cavern list before. Your deck math is pretty simple though due to 0 draw, filtering, or tutors. I would just keep fiddling with it till you get numbers you're OK with, but I don't ever see the 6+ force matchup being good unless you radically change things.

---

The meta is so inbred right now I don’t think those cards are being played. Look at the Sat challenge. The lists have 6 blasts/carpets, 0 veil, 0 mages, lots of Hullbreachers, no agents. The only thing they will bring imo is a few wilts and extra libraries/surgicals. That does lend credence to your discard over grid plan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

The meta is so inbred right now I don’t think those cards are being played. Look at the Sat challenge. The lists have 6 blasts/carpets, 0 veil, 0 mages, lots of Hullbreachers, no agents. The only thing they will bring imo is a few wilts and extra libraries/surgicals. That does lend credence to your discard over grid plan.

---

Oh ok, I used this list https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=28701&d=426612&f=LE
.

Ok I goldfished several hands with a 4CB Thoughtseize sideboard plan. Thoughtseize was quite good in low resources hands to get rid of forces without requiring additional resources, and vs ugxxx we care about their forces much more than their threats. However it’s not that much better than chalice so I think 4 is too many (since if you want ts and chalice you don’t have enough cuts). Chalice also protects agent better than discard. Using your theory I want a few more Thoughtseize as fow answers and a few agents as “wincons”.

Compared to Defense grid or chains they don’t turn on decays as mentioned and more quickly trade for forces, at the cost of being a poor top deck. Another thing I hadn’t considered was that a lot of my fastest hands leave me with 5 not 4 mana. This makes Thoughtseize effectively free. Boarding would be urborgs and eliminates for helm, 2 Thoughtseize, 3 agent

Redoing line up theory vs Sunday’s 3rd place Snowko list:

Cards that matter vs win cons: 9
Forces 6
Trophy 1
Veil (1 Sb)
Ouphe (1 Sb)

Cantrips 22

Anti hate: 5
3 oko
2 Decay

My wincons: 14
Curses 4
Karn 4
Helm 2 (+1)
Agent (+3 sb)

Protection 6
4 Pelakka
TS (+2)

Cantrip hate 8
Chalice 4
3 ball 4

Postboard those numbers seem quite favourable.

Vs rug I would probably cut Karn and a Pelakka for vault, helm, spyglass, and 2 Thoughtseize. Maybe OTD cut 3balls for PE

Went 4-1 in a league with 3 SB Thoughtseize.

The tempo was really great in some cases (had a t1 ts fow into t2 Karn win vs Snowko). It was a bad top deck late game or if I had chalice, my life total got sketchy sometimes, and ofc it was bad if they had library or uro.

Usually vs snow the only cards that matter are forces, and sometimes uro/oko. The ability to trade directly with forces without turning on their decays like grid or spyglass is great and a draw to Thoughtseize. A user in pox discord tried agonizing remorse and said it was decent. I am thinking about trying Memory Leak again. Paying 1 more mana for a life and cycling seems good, and would let me become more land light. It’s a decent top deck and smoothing, and I didn’t realize it but it actually answers uro relatively well. Obviously it’s horribly tempo negative vs rug which is why I stopped testing initially. But Pelakka has performed so well vs blue durdle, where they only that matters is how many forces they draw. It doesn’t conflict with chalice or 3 ball, and rugs metagame share has decreased.

Compared to spyglass it’s much worse vs oko and Marit Lage and somewhat worse vs wasteland. But it is way better vs uro, elves, post board unfair decks, & forces, is better at manafixing vs non-wasteland, and exiles to Chrome mox. Compared to pelakka it is a better spell and top deck for a worse land and in your opening hand.

Basically the meta rn is snow variants and rug, with a bit of random resilient combo to metagame vs them.

My matchups vs the unfair decks (gaak/elves/doomsday/12post) are really good, so all I need to do is make one of the two blue categories positive. I think wasteland and daze will always be good against me unless I splash for carpet. Perhaps I should forfeit that MU for md leaks to beat durdle?

Draft list of “best g1 vs snow”

4 ancient tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
7 Swamp
4 Pelakka Predation // Pelakka Caverns
2 Memory Leak

4 Dark Ritual
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Eliminate
4 Leyline of the Void

2 Helm of Obedience
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Curse of Misfortunes
1 Curse of Death’s Hold
1 Cruel Reality
1 Overwhelming Splendor

4 Plague Engineer
3 Opposition Agent
2 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Mycrosynth Lattice
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Liquimettal Coating


This deck looks quite clean, with 6 answers between leak and pelakka/leyline/eliminate for each of the problem cards (fow/uro/oko). Discard plus fast clock plus hate pieces should make all non-depths unfair mus even better. Rug and other wasteland decks probably gets worse but that doesn’t matter as much rn.

With extra discard I need less SB help vs snow. This leaves room for 2 screw delver cards. I was thinking either ssg, fatal push, bloodchiefs thirst or snuff out as a screw daze card.

Ssg is the best answer to daze but will probably make you eliminates overworked to deal with their threats. Snuff is great vs or with chalice but iffy vs bolt. Push is decent vs delver but I can’t enable revolt easily. Thirst gives additional oko and fast Karn answers but sorcery speed is annoying.

I went pretty far down the theorycrafting hole here so I’d be interested in people’s opinions on adding more draft chaff to the deck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

I went pretty far down the theorycrafting hole here so I’d be interested in people’s opinions on adding more draft chaff to the deck.

---

Remorse is cute, I prefer it to memory.

I did some testing. The idea of needing something else cheap that control cares about is good. All the games go really long so being more threat dense is important and drawing your targets is less of an issue since you can hard cast them. Tried putting curse of fools wisdom back in and 2 treacherous blessing.

In the past it was a bit iffy but in so many matchups right now your lifetotal is irrelevant (looking at the popularity of library). It won the game vs UR delver and Depths by powering into a fast helm combo.

Edit: I guess I didn’t explain what was iffy with remorse. It was great at clearing the way of forces or combo pieces, but I was losing many games to just not drawing a win on. That’s why I thought more card draw might be good.

Updated the primer with new card choices and thoughts
________

Went 3-2 with a treacherous blessing list. It accelerated me into fast helm kills vs ur delver and depths and usually only cost around 4 life. Being immediate card advantage through removal is nice compared to phyrexian arena. Compared to read the bones after testing I think drawing 1 card is worth more than the addition life loss and seeing 1 deeper.

Treacherous blessing list going forward would be something like this:


4 ancient tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
7 Swamp
4 Pelakka Predation // Pelakka Caverns

4 Dark Ritual
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Eliminate
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Treacherous Blessing

2 Helm of Obedience
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Curse of Misfortunes
1 Curse of Death’s Hold
1 Cruel Reality
1 Curse of Fools’ Wisdom
1 Overwhelming Splendor

3 Plague Engineer
3 Opposition Agent
2 Bloodchief’s Thirst
1 Torpor Orb
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Mycrosynth Lattice
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Liquimettal Coating


From a meta point of view this list should destroy all the current unfair decks (eves/oops/doomsday) and fair non blue decks like lands/12 post. Fools wisdom plus blessing over spyglass/eliminate should hopefully make snow positive. The deck is weaker vs delver but hopefully Bloodchief’s thirst compensates or I can dodge.

Treacherous blessing and curse of fools wisdom are definitely winning matches for me, but I am mulliganing a lot. I think only 13 untapped black sources is too few and I should trim one blessing for utility lands.

Adding the extra business spells (1 fools wisdom 2 blessing) to the deck has greatly improved my control matchups, and I think I will keep it that way for the showcase. In leagues at least everything seems to be combo or snow rn which is a good spot for the deck.

Added some of the new FOTM decks (mentor/pokepile/oops) to the matchup sections. I’ll do a more comprehensive update (mus and sideboard changes a lot with opposition agent) at a later date.

Updated primer with an opposition agent list and the matchups it most affects.