Modern Horizons 2 Previews

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I like Unmarked Grave for the Depths Reanimator hybrid. One of the key threats, for a while, was Grave Titan, which isn't legendary. It isn't an efficient way to tutor our Vampire Hexmage, but that is an option. I like Grief for the same deck, it seems like a pretty good value card. If you have an unnecessary Dark Ritual in hand you can either power it out, or if you need to make multiple plays you can pitch the DR/redundant black card to alternative cast it. I think it will go well in a deck that has a healthy amount of redundancy that can spare a card to enable it's 'free' clause.

Manaless Dredge comes to mind as well for Grief, it ticks off all the boxes for being playable in that deck: black creature for Ichorid, free hand disruption like Cabal Therapy, and you really don't care about losing a card when your real hand is your stuffed graveyard. I don't think it makes the deck jump a tier or anything like that, but I do think it's a pretty clean and powerful option for that deck. It might replace Chancellor of the Annex in the decks that play it. While it doesn't do anything for your g2-3, the deck's biggest weakness, it might be a piece of the puzzle.

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Sideboard card at best in dredge

Yeah, I think that Grief is another of the many win-more cards that can be played in Manaless Dredge. As hand disruption, it is worse than Unmask since it cannot target yourself. It is nice if you have a Bridge in the graveyard, but if you already have a Bridge, your engine is going. Unmask can help get the engine started, while Grief cannot, and getting to dredging is the most important thing. As FourDogs said, it may be a sideboard card over Unmask, but I don't think it is worth a maindeck slot.

The Suspend Tutor is absurd in the Collected Conjuring decks. If there's another full cycle of those, plus another cycle of pitch cards, that's probably enough to push that thing to real Legacy deck status, it's already showing in Modern. Wish I could have gotten that one figured out back when I messing with it after it first came out. I knew the potential, I just couldn't get the list/play orders right.

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Originally Posted by kombatkiwi

Not getting griselbrand is kind of a flop right


1 mana 1/2 islandwalk is also a much worse card than Wastes


Sorry which fair decks are playing unmask?
In a vacuum I think this is a kind of good/cool design, obviously it's a powerful card
I'm a little bit afraid that the ephemerate interaction pushes it over the edge, especially in modern (and I'm afraid of what the other ones in the cycle do for the same reason)


The two cards aren't really directly comparable I don't think
There are lots of decks that aren't interested in the creature aspect, won't want to pay 2bb for it and also don't value the 0 mana worth 2-for-1ing yourself
Of course this is still a statement you can make (just like "Griselbrand is better than Thoughtseize" or whatever)

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Unmarked tomb: maybe entomb 5-6 in worldgorger. Pretty bad

Magus of the port: Not taking up your land drop means it is effectively one less mana to activate. Also merfolk is critically low on good 1 drops which are needed for your lords to be decent. This will be good in a u/w vial or merfolk deck, but those decks might still be bad for other reasons.

Grief is absurd in gaak. It’s an unmask that gives you a 4/3 (with vengevine) or a 2/2 (with BFB)

In fair decks, basically everything you said applies to force of will or negation though. Unmask was not playable because both the alt cast and the hard cast were worse than force of will. Due to the lack of tempo gain, the alt cast is worse than force of will. But the hard cast is much better than force of will. It’s a 1 for 2 which can also be a 2 for 1. This is a force effect that pox wants even without synergies like reanimate/ephermeate/lily last hope.

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Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa

No Legacy playable cards so far. Everything revealed is either too weak or too conditional.

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Grief will make bug gaak the best graveyard deck and possible tier 1.

Triggers bridge for free

Triggers vengevine for free

Doesn’t hurt yourself like thoughtseize (very relevant vs ur)

Flood insurance

Quite good vs Omnitell which is a horrible mu.

Pushes through crab or supplier on t1 (relevant vs control)

Free hand information, refunding the card disadvantage in conjunction with cabal therapy.

Makes the deck a bit better vs blood moon and chalice.

In dredge or reanimate it isn’t very good as mentioned above. The last three points were true of unmask, but the first ones make it go from worse than thoughtseize to much better.

I think it's very short-sighted to say that Grief is worse than Unmask in reanimator because you can't target yourself. It ignores that Grief itself is a very easy and profitable reanimation target. No it's not Griselbrand but turn 1 Grief, Reanimate Grief is a really powerful play that's very low investment. You've spent two cards to take your opponent's two best cards and have an evasive 3/2 body; it's basically an upgrade on Turn 1 Delver, turn 2 Hymn, which is a very strong opening.

Could also be played with stuff like village rites. Evoke is easy to abuse with lots of stuff.

Swamp, Grief, Rite seem like a really good turn 1 play.

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Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu

Could also be played with stuff like village rites. Evoke is easy to abuse with lots of stuff.

Swamp, Grief, Rite seem like a really good turn 1 play.

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Just...just cast thoughtseize....

Also, Grief and Ephemerate is juicy, probably not legacy playable but damn, modern will get a lot more spicy.

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

I think it's very short-sighted to say that Grief is worse than Unmask in reanimator because you can't target yourself. It ignores that Grief itself is a very easy and profitable reanimation target. No it's not Griselbrand but turn 1 Grief, Reanimate Grief is a really powerful play that's very low investment. You've spent two cards to take your opponent's two best cards and have an evasive 3/2 body; it's basically an upgrade on Turn 1 Delver, turn 2 Hymn, which is a very strong opening.

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I think this might be strong, but you mathd wrong. It’s 3 cards to take your opponents best 2 cards and a 3/3 body. Ie 2x thoughtseize plus delver. Which is a very effecient 3 for 3 for something Like deaths shadow. but not card advantage.

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Originally Posted by Mr Miagi

Also, Grief and Ephemerate is juicy, probably not legacy playable but damn, modern will get a lot more spicy.

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So you get 3 thoughtseize and a body for just one mana. Yeah that IS juicy.

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Originally Posted by Mr Miagi

Also, Grief and Ephemerate is juicy, probably not legacy playable but damn, modern will get a lot more spicy.

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How is tripple Thoughtseize with zero life loss and getting a 3/2 Menace beater NOT juicy? I could see it played in some kind of ETB deck, but question is how you get enough black cards to make it work.

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Originally Posted by Barook

How is tripple Thoughtseize with zero life loss and getting a 3/2 Menace beater NOT juicy? I could see it played in some kind of ETB deck, but question is how you get enough black cards to make it work.

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Maybe a weird Shadow/Delver Esper deck?

4 Delver
4 Grief
4 Death's Shadow
1 Gurmag Angler

4 STP
4 FOW
4 Daze
4 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Ephermate
2 Fatal Push
2 Snuff Out

17 Lands

Edit - eh - ephermate in this is sort of useless other than the grief "combo"

Sanppys and Strix so you can "cycle" ephermate.

Also if I unserstand the Grief combo correctly it is somewhat removal proof. You can stack it that unmask resolves first, clearing the hand from removal. He could respond with a bolt but then you ephermate anyway!

Looking at a recent Esper Yorion list on MtGTop8, there are a number of potentially useful creatures to use Ephemerate with:

28 CREATURES
4 Baleful Strix
1 Barrin, Tolarian Archmage
4 Charming Prince
1 Fblthp, the Lost
2 Gilded Drake
1 Hullbreacher
4 Meddling Mage
1 Palace Jailer
1 Peacekeeper
1 Plague Engineer
4 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Skyclave Apparition
1 Soulherder
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Venser, Shaper Savant

Now, that deck is mostly UW, but I figure that some Esper list with more B, or a simple WB list with Grief could be made, running things like Village Rites and Ephemerate with Tidehollow Sculler and Grief, etc.

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Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu

Sanppys and Strix so you can "cycle" ephermate.

Also if I unserstand the Grief combo correctly it is somewhat removal proof. You can stack it that unmask resolves first, clearing the hand from removal. He could respond with a bolt but then you ephermate anyway!

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That is correct, one isn't enough

Any instant speed sacrifice effect should also be pretty good with it, e.g. Grief + Phyrexian Tower to ramp early.

Village Rites would also go well with Sedgemoor Witch, or Cabal Therapy, for the matter. Free info to set up a 100% hit T1 Cabal Therapy is very strong, as Gitaxian Probe has shown. Grief can pitch a Chain of Smog you don't have immediate use for. Grief can also provide a body for Therapy if you play it normally later on.

Both Reanimate (get Grief back or steal their fatty) and Cabal Therapy (100% hit) enable very powerful T1 plays with Grief while not being completely useless by themselves. Definitely something to watch out for. I expect this card package to show up in alot of black decks that can run 1 cmc cards.

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Originally Posted by Whoshim

Yeah, I think that Grief is another of the many win-more cards that can be played in Manaless Dredge. As hand disruption, it is worse than Unmask since it cannot target yourself. It is nice if you have a Bridge in the graveyard, but if you already have a Bridge, your engine is going. Unmask can help get the engine started, while Grief cannot, and getting to dredging is the most important thing. As FourDogs said, it may be a sideboard card over Unmask, but I don't think it is worth a maindeck slot.

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Do you even play Manaless Dredge? From this post, it doesn't seem so. If you've actually played and experienced the deck, you'd know that the "engine" doesn't go online until turn 3 with non-Street Wraith hands because of the timing of triggers. Against fast combo, Grief can provide bodies on turn 2, which is incredibly rare for this deck other than Narcomoebas, with Bridges, and possibly a Dread Return win right there, or slow down their combo to get to turn 3. It's not just win-more in this case.

Unmasking yourself to start the engine is so narrow that it's not even worth mentioning, in my opinion. So, it's not something to debate between Unmask and Grief. You're playing the wrong deck or playing the deck wrong if you are consistently using Unmask like this.

I'm not saying it should be in the 60, but the points you've brought up aren't helpful and telegraph inexperience.

The fact that Grief is a discard spell, that is relevant late game.... is actually better then people are giving it credit for. Early game seize late game evasive beater? That's a pretty good card.

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Originally Posted by zzap

I'm not saying it should be in the 60, but the points you've brought up aren't helpful and telegraph inexperience.

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Yeah, I have come around on my opinion since I wrote that. I have been doing more regular dredge recently, so it has been a while since I have played Manaless. I think Grief is better than Unmask in Manaless, but I still don't know as it should be run main deck.

Oh boy Malakir Rebirth as redundant copy! As I said evoke is so easy to abuse... There are like 100 high synergie cards out there!

As well as Undying evil. Grief gonna be busted.

Grief is apparently part of a mythic cycle. I wonder what the other ones are going to do.

Edit: New removal:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E2JZ_uSX...jpg&name=small

That's cool, so it's always an exile for a 1-drop and scales up easily in a 2-3 color deck, which is easy to do. Being a sorcery is a minor drawback, but not enough to hold it back. This is a shoe-in for UW control in modern and can be very good in anything playing T3Feri.

Worse EE, except that it kills Klothys. Celestial Purge should not be in legacy SBs any more.

It's way less mana intensive than EE and an upgrade in most situations.

It's going to be a modern staple for various WUG, WUB and UWR decks even as a sorcery. It's basically an improved vindicate (it can't blow up lands but it often costs 1-2 less mana than Vindicate). Going to see quite a bit of legacy play as well. And to think, they felt Vindicate was too powerful to upshift into Modern in MH1.

Just thankful it's not a rare or mythic.

I think you're overestimating this card. It's still a 1-for-1 that joins Plow in the "combo doesn't care" category. It isn't particularly effective to fight FIRE design with 1-for-1s (especially a potentially expensive sorcery).

There are few legacy decks trying to pile up Path on top of Plow maindeck. There are also fewer wrath effects being played to reset the board to 1-for-1 relevance.

Path is another card that can be replaced in a SB with this card, unless you're looking exactly for anti-Lage only.

MH2 seems to have a squirrel theme:

http://mythicspoiler.com/mh2/cards/s...lsanctuary.jpghttp://mythicspoiler.com/mh2/cards/ravenoussquirrel.jpghttp://mythicspoiler.com/mh2/cards/s...lsovereign.jpghttp://mythicspoiler.com/mh2/cards/squirrelmob.jpghttp://mythicspoiler.com/mh2/cards/c...relgeneral.jpg

The General seems kinda interesting - is there a way to abuse its ability?

https://i.redd.it/p2v813al53171.png

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Originally Posted by Barook

MH2 seems to have a squirrel theme:

http://mythicspoiler.com/mh2/cards/s...lsanctuary.jpghttp://mythicspoiler.com/mh2/cards/ravenoussquirrel.jpghttp://mythicspoiler.com/mh2/cards/s...lsovereign.jpghttp://mythicspoiler.com/mh2/cards/squirrelmob.jpghttp://mythicspoiler.com/mh2/cards/c...relgeneral.jpg

The General seems kinda interesting - is there a way to abuse its ability?

https://i.redd.it/p2v813al53171.png

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Snapping this back gets rid of half your opponent's deck.

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Originally Posted by Fox

I think you're overestimating this card. It's still a 1-for-1 that joins Plow in the "combo doesn't care" category. It isn't particularly effective to fight FIRE design with 1-for-1s (especially a potentially expensive sorcery).

There are few legacy decks trying to pile up Path on top of Plow maindeck. There are also fewer wrath effects being played to reset the board to 1-for-1 relevance.

Path is another card that can be replaced in a SB with this card, unless you're looking exactly for anti-Lage only.

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Exactly. This wont see any play in legacy

http://mythicspoiler.com/mh2/cards/latetodinner.jpg

Strictly better Breath of Life. Between all those new Plainscyclers and maybe the white evoke pitcher (assuming it doesn't suck), I wonder how feasible a mono-W Reanimator Stompy is going to be. They seem to tacke the white reanimation angle again lately.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Grief is apparently part of a mythic cycle. I wonder what the other ones are going to do.

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OOH! Ooh! White one will be called Frustration and will have Flash, Hexproof, and "Your opponents can't resolve Tendrils of Agony."

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Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce

OOH! Ooh! White one will be called Frustration and will have Flash, Hexproof, and "Your opponents can't resolve Tendrils of Agony."

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I'm sold.

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Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce

OOH! Ooh! White one will be called Frustration and will have Flash, Hexproof, and "Your opponents can't resolve Tendrils of Agony."

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A white flash creature with a Chant effect for non-creature spells isn't actually that unrealistic.

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Originally Posted by Barook

A white flash creature with a Chant effect for non-creature spells isn't actually that unrealistic.

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Let's not pretend that there isn't a real chance that they just slap a terrible Healing Salve version on a lackluster body though.

(I mean, I kind of doubt it, but White (and even worse, Red) cards from most cycles tend to be terrible with a few notable exceptions.)

New card:

http://mythicspoiler.com/mh2/cards/riseandshine.jpg

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Originally Posted by H

Let's not pretend that there isn't a real chance that they just slap a terrible Healing Salve version on a lackluster body though.

(I mean, I kind of doubt it, but White (and even worse, Red) cards from most cycles tend to be terrible with a few notable exceptions.)

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I don't think they would go down the troll route, considering how people have been kicking and screaming for years how awful white has become.

Reverent Mantra was the white Masques counterpart to Unmask. I wouldn't be surprised if they made a creature out of it - with Flash and one-sided.

The X spell is good lol idk what you are smoking

1 mana kill 1 or 0 mana permanent (Vial, Carpet, Delver, etc)
2 mana kill 2 mana permanent (goyf, library, chalice on 1)
3 mana kill 3 mana permanent (klothys, teferi/narset, equipment / moon / choke etc)

X mechanic with converge means it plays around thalia well

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It's still a 1-for-1 that joins Plow in the "combo doesn't care" category

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Ok so all these cards:
Vanishing Verse
Vindicate
Wear/Tear
Disenchant
Rip Apart
Council's Judgment
Unexpectedly Absent
Abrade
Abrupt Decay

Aren't playable either? Got it

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Originally Posted by kombatkiwi

The X spell is good lol idk what you are smoking

1 mana kill 1 or 0 mana permanent (Vial, Carpet, Delver, etc)
2 mana kill 2 mana permanent (goyf, library, chalice on 1)
3 mana kill 3 mana permanent (klothys, teferi/narset, equipment / moon / choke etc)

X mechanic with converge means it plays around thalia well


Ok so all these cards:
Vanishing Verse
Vindicate
Wear/Tear
Disenchant
Rip Apart
Council's Judgment
Unexpectedly Absent
Abrade
Abrupt Decay

Aren't playable either? Got it

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STP kills Griselbrand for 1 mana, how much does this one take to do that? 4 mana of different colors to kill a Jace TMS? In a format with Abrupt Decay, Red Elemental Blast, Vindicate, whatever, and you seriously think this is playable. Ah spoiler season. Show me what deck wants this and what cards get cut. What card does U/W Miracles cut for this? What card does Strawberry shortcake cut? Death and taxes? Maybe they all start playing 4 colors because of how powerful this card is? Right. I will look forward when this card disappears and everyone acts like they always knew it was garbage. Council's Judgement is better then this 10 out of 10 times. Want to hit a vial? Decay cant be countered. Kill a Jace? REB is 1 mana. It's on you to prove why this card is better or at least on par with those. Your whole argument is, this kills stuff, these other things kill stuff, so this is great! The fact you listed a bunch of cards that " kill stuff" and dont see why those cards are different and why this card is subpar to other options is silly.

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Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce

OOH! Ooh! White one will be called Frustration and will have Flash, Hexproof, and "Your opponents can't resolve Tendrils of Agony."

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"You and frustation have hexproof"

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

"You and frustation have hexproof"

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I said I was sold earlier.

I stand corrected, it was definitely missing something.