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I have played against dreadstill quite a bit with ichorid. I think the white version has the best chance with swords. Also a super techy move is to hardcast you nought, and let it die to remove thier bridges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullclamping
Mine ^Quote:
Originally Posted by Maagler
Hammafist why did you run Oblivion Ring over Stp?
And yes, I already knew the "let your Nought die thing", but I'll try countering their discard outlets
In a meta full of CB/Moat/Humility and other enchantment/artefact/noncreature stuff Oblivion Ring make perfect sense.
This along with Chalice, 3Sphere, and everything that Swords can answer. It also gives me another 3 to reveal with CB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch@os
props.Quote:
Originally Posted by JanValentine00
btw I love MOTL, i got 80% of the trading done for this deck in one day!
Would hammafist be interested in trading regular wastelands, and some other stuff for DCI wastelands?
OMG I cannot begin on how good the extra EE in the board was for me. I actually am considering upping the count to two in the side they are that crazy in the Threshold MU. Also, if Ichorid is rampant in your meta you may want to play a Black Splash Variant of Dreadstill with a sideboard of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullclamping
4x Crypts
3x Jailers
1x EE
1x Needle
3x Chill
3x Echoing Truth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roodmistah
I might run leylines over jailers against ichorid. Although they are harder to hardcast, they are faster than jailers if you get them in your starting hand, which is what you want to be looking for anyways.
I might go
3 crypts (you can find them with trinket mage)
4 leyline
1-2 EE (very good against a range of decks)
1 needle
3 back to basics
3-4 echoing truth
Only problem with that is you'll probally only be running one dual and it's safer to go with Jailer over Leyline seeing if you topdeck Leyline it's a dead card sitting in hand against Ichorid.
what where the color variants being run yesterday? I think I saw Ug, Ur, Uw, and ? was there are Ub version? Forgot about the single dual. Anyways I like eather the red or white version the best. Green was interesting, with tarmagoyf but ultimately underpowered.
Breakdown from yesterdays metagame:
2 UG Dreadstills (One with goyf! ;O)
1 UR Dreadstill
1 UW Dreadstill
The UR and UW made T8, however one of the UG Dreadstill players should have T8'd but a costly play error cost him a spot in T8.
Here's the list I'm running at the moment...
6 Island
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Quicksand
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Trinket Mage
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Engineered Explosives
Sideboard:
4 Oblivion Ring
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Chill
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Pithing Needle
1 Plains
It's a fairly standard list except that it runs...
-3 Wasteland
+2 Quicksand
+1 Polluted Delta
The reason for the extra fetchland is...
1.) I found only 13 blue sources to be too low at times, esp given that Counterbalance costs UU. I feel like I'm having to mulligan an otherwise perfect hand due to the lack of a blue source too often.
2.) Upping the number of fetchlands makes both Brainstorm and Top that much better.
The reason for running Quicksand over Wasteland is...
1.) I really haven't found Wasteland to be as worthwhile as Quicksand, even with the stifle effects. If you don't have an early Dreadnought, this can be a slow deck, esp thanks to Standstill. The wastelands don't do all that much there.
2.) Quicksand gives me a great way to deal with creatures, to shrink creatures down such that Trinket Mage and Mishra's Factory can kill them and survive, and to let me play Standstill even when they have a creature on the board.
3.) Being able to nuke Dark Confidants and Meddling Mages without having to waste a Force on them is tech.
Has anyone else had the same problems I've had?
What do you guys think of my list?
Who sends their Meddling Mage into a Quicksand? I feel like if your opponent is doing this you should be in good shape anyway given the given they are a horrible player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
Point 2 is a pretty solid one though, being able to shrink a 4/5 Goyf to a 3/3 and trade a Factory with it is pretty hawt. Although it is trading 2 land drops for a Goyf, its sort of a beating tempo-wise.
I would imagine it just comes down to meta/preference. If you don't run into a ton of opposing manlands, Academy Ruins, troublesome lands, then it might be more beneficial to have Quicksands at your disposal. If you want to complement the Stifles with Wastes and have an edge in manland battles and solutions to problem lands than Wasteland is probably the right call.
Otherwise your list looks really standard.
Quicksand kills manlands too. But yeah, them having the option on whether or not to attack is a bummer. But it works well under Standstill (they can't attack with their manland even if you don't have one of your own if you have Quicksand on your side).
Nm, it's attacking only I misread the card =D. Yeah I can't see running this over Waste, shutting down a colored mana is too crucial.
Thank you. I barely see goblins around here so please let me how well it works for you.
What do you guys think of playing Back to Basics in the board? To make them good we would have to remove the Watelands from the maindeck, but with Back to Basics we would have a real bomb, which simply tends to win games on its own quite often.(Would also make the manabase more stable) Normally bad matchups like 4 Color Landstill could be made pretty favorable with B2B.
I actually had B2B in my original build got dropped them due to the fact Landstill wasn't really around my metagame. I honestly think stabilizing our mana base and running B2B in the board could work out awesome in a Landstill-heavy meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muradin
Recently I've seen many different builds of this deck with different splashes in all colours. Those decks didn't differ in many slots, but still it seems to be easy to tweak this deck for a special metagame. So at the moment I am still thinking, which splash I should run if I decide to play this deck. First I am going to try it at a smaller legacy tournament (roughly 20 people)
My metagame has a lot of Aggro Loam decks, Landstill, ******** and Ichorid. The rest is Survival(GWB mostly) with decks like Dragon Stompy, Truffle Shuffle and Epic storm popping up sometimes.
Notable is, that there are more or less no Goblins and very little real random decks.
Would dreadstill in general be a good choice in such a meta?
What would be a viable plan against Krosan Grip?
In which matchups am I the agressor? Where should I dig and mulligan for Stifle + Nought and where should I play control?
I'd say the Red splash version of DS would probally be best for that meta REB is highly effective against both Landstill and Threshold. Aggro Loam, Dragonstompy, and Survival are already fairly good matchups already. Also, it's a common misconception if you don't have Stifle/Nought in hand to mulligan. A slow hand with DS is perfectly fine in most matchups Standstill on itself will win you alot of games in alot of those matchups you listed. Krosan Grip you have to play around, like bait it out with a Counterbalance or force them to use it on Factory beats.
yea the red splash i think right now is the best has.has anyone noticed the rise of 43 land again?or is it just me.
Ever heard of a shift key? It helps you make capital letters.Quote:
Originally Posted by neckfire
I also don't think any list or splash is the best. It's all about play style and metagames. I like the white splash simply because Oblivion Ring is perfect for this deck, it answers things we hate.
If I were playing against Ichorid alot I would prefer Extirpate over both Jailer and Leyline. Extirpate can't be answered by Ichorid and it's really hard to play around. My problem with Jailer and Leyline vs. Ichorid is they can just bounce them(unless you have a shitton of counter in hand). Extirpate is also tank in other MU's such as Aggro Loam, Fetchland Tendrils, and Iggy pop.
I agree with Roob 100%, no splash or variant of DS is more superior than another. It's completely dependant on your meta and what you play against the most.Quote:
Originally Posted by HammafistRoob
Gratz @ winning the tournament with a red splash, but i dont like the idea of playing REB.
In a LS & trash Meta i would play the white splash with Oblivion Ring and BtB in the SB.
So you can also handle 43.lands & LS with BtB and remove CB with O.Ring against *****.
Dont forget the Meddling Mages against those Grips or Combo.
All Dreadstill variants are good in ther specific metagame, but the white one seems best in a blind or random meta.
I think that prize goes to the green splash because K. Grip is just so broken in the meta right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch@os
If I were expecting to see more Counter/top Thresh than I did I would've definetally been running the Green Splash. Red Splash gives you outs against Landstill which has been seeing a growth as of late in my meta.
Really, why haven't I seen any yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roodmistah
Also, I'm really trying to figure out which lsit is the stongest in the mirror. I beat a Ug build with Goyfs and Grips with my white list. It might just be because I know the deck well and the guy I played against picked it up like 2 days before the tournament. I would like to hear what you guys think about the mirror match.
Landstill players are drawn to me for some odd reasons, it seems like I'm always facing one in first round of a tournament. Green Splash is probally the strongest against the mirror, K Grip and possible (Goyf) from the board is a beating in the mirror matchup. If you honestly wanted you could literally just go strait up Goyf beat and not even have to use your Dreadnoughts to win for the mirror.
I think that White is probably the strongest in the mirror. With O Rings in the main you should almost always win game one since the other lists don't run maindeck answers to Dreadnought(except a one-of EE). You can bring in Mages against Ug to stop Krosan Grips and then the only answer they have to Nought is EE. I know resolving a Mage to win isn't a very good game plan, Ug will no doubt have a stronger match post board, but I think pulling out one of the post board games shouldn't be that difficult. White also has 6 cards to reveal off CB to counter a Krosan Grip if you play it right.
Has anyone else felt a need for 2-3 EE's in the sideboard for the pure aggro matchups? I'm debating upping my total amount of EE's to 3 or 4.
Really?
Against what? Goblin?
The real aggrodecks like Beatz or Zoo are dead or played by under ~5% of the people.
But against *****/WW they are gorgeous
Here my list iam testing at the weekend:
Mainboard:
Lands: [19]
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Plains
5 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
Creatures: [7]
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinked Mage
Spells: [34]
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
Sideboard:
4 Meddling Mage
2 BEB
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Back to Basics
1 Pithing Needle
Looks good Ch@os but I would go down to 2 tundra's and add another basic Island, you want more basics for your own B2B's and against Moons and wastelands also you never really need more than 1 white source.
Have you guys tested 1x tormod's crypt maindeck? could be usefull...
Yes, but needle is also usefull or maybe shackles or ... this list has no end and i must cut somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by slyfer
~, in some matchups MM comes in, with Oblivion Ring there are 7 white cards MB. Fetchies work under B2B, so 6 Fetchies & 6 Basics = 12 usefull lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by JanValentine00
Only 7 nonbasics are in the board, and against some wastelands/Port/Sinkhole/whatever i dont like the idea to have only one other Tundra/whitesource MB. But again it depends on playstyle and sure you can replace one Tundra with another Island or Academy Ruins maybe ;>. I'll test another Island and see how it works.
Problem is, it has limited uses in many matches I can't see any reason to maindeck this over Needle or anything else in the main. Also if you were to run a Tormod's Crypt main you would surely need 1 Academy main.Quote:
Originally Posted by slyfer
So why not run acadamey main. You have one explosive that you cant recur which would seem like you would have a hard time trying to get rid of things in the board. Tormod's is realy good against most decks in the meta and having one dead card in a few matchups beats not having it where it does shine.
We already run enough colorless mana sources as it is, I really wouldn't cut a Wasteland for an Acadamy and surely not any of my blue sources. Crypt is often times then a dead card to draw and it would have only limited uses where as Needle almost always has something you can get, even fetchlands if you need. Plus the decks where it shines against we already have positive matchups against except Ichorid. And postboard, Ichorid matchup is in our favor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roodmistah
With Crypt Maindeck I never lost a Match at a tournament. I faced Dredge four times now and won every Match.
I'm running the white splash of the deck, but I'm currently running...
Lands: [19]
1 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Plains
4 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins
Creatures: [7]
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Trinket Mage
Spells: [34]
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Pithing Needle/Tormod's Crypt - Can't decide
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
Similar to Choas' List except
+1 Academy Ruins
+2 Swords to Plowshares
I really think Swords is superior to both Daze and Spell Snare.
Daze is insane early game, but really starts sucking late game, which this deck goes into often thanks to Standstill. I think it works best as a 3 of since you get more benefit from your opponent playing around it.
and I have to say, I absolutely love both changes.
Academy Ruins is absolutely fantastic as a one of in this deck, letting you recur Dreadnoughts, EEs, Pithing Needles, everything.
But StP is the card that I want to talk about. Boy is this card good with standstill. Take out their threat, lay down Standstill is an absolutely fantastic play.
So much so that I want to play 4 MD Swords to Plowshares, or atleast 3.
Or perhaps I will play 2 Swords and 2 Oblivion Rings.
The problem is, I have absolutely no clue as to what I should cut to make this possible.
Any suggestions?
And Choas, do you think it's a mistake for me to run StP over Oblivion Ring. I like how fast StP is and how well it works in letting me play Standstill early. But maybe I'm making a mistake.
No, its a meta decision, against Lackey, 1.turn Hippie or 2. Turn Breakfast Ghoul or against stupid burn Sword is a good choice. Angainst an more "controlish" Meta O.Ring will solve your problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
@List:
Iam not a big fan of playing 3 Daze, also i have kicked the needle/crypt/whatever slot, but my list is above ;p. Apart from that you can sure play this list.