[Deck] Solidarity

In other words: It's good when you're already playing lots of blue spells.

I usually am either winning a lot when this happens, or just untapping my lands for infi mana and not having a card draw, in the latter case FoI is really good practically stating "you win". However, if I had been playing an actually good card in it's place, I might have not gotten into this situation.

M10 really made the card a lot worse, it might still be a good option, just way way worse than it used to be and now FoI actually is no longer an auto-include. You play it, you justify it.
Personally, my Soli has been 56 cards for ages..

Playing alot of blue spells you will do everytime you dont get mana screw. Mono-u with lots of Cantrips tend to do that.

What do you play instead of FoI?

The biggest reason to run FoI acording to me is that it get you your untap when you need it, your card draw when you need it or your wincard when you need it. The only card that i feel i could play over FoI is Frantic Search.

Another issue that is often overlooked is that FoI is our only source of card advantage outside of Meditate (and, I suppose, casting Stroke of Genius on yourself, which, given that it is in the Wishboard, is both card and mana intensive).

Everytime that Opt, Remand, Cryptic Command, Disrupt, etc replaces itself with a land midcombo, we have lost a card. Every time we cast Reset, Turnabout, or High Tide, we have lost a card. FoI is one of our few ways to replenish a depleted hand.

This, combined with it's search function, makes it a very valuable card, despite the M10 "nerf".

-Silent Requiem

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Originally Posted by Silent Requiem

FoI is one of our few ways to replenish a depleted hand.

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As does Twincasting your Meditate, if you play it. And the Tolarian Winds that no one other than myself run in their wish boards. However, it's 'tutor' potential that others have mentioned in the only reason I still run FOI as a 1-of.

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Originally Posted by TheyCallMeTim

As does Twincasting your Meditate, if you play it. And the Tolarian Winds that no one other than myself run in their wish boards. However, it's 'tutor' potential that others have mentioned in the only reason I still run FOI as a 1-of.

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2 cards r more dificult to get well than one card capable of replay (flashback)... and the falsh of insight is a non-bad trade tutor (when played if counter u can flashback it, when flashbacked is not a card dissavantage...) and in counter wars twincast can be beat by spell snare counter balance and etc that foi doesn´t...

solidarity sb slots are one of the most important things and: 15 slots all need to be very well diserved.
if u use wish for card draw due to the lack of hand u don't fetch for tolarian u fetch for meditate so what is the point of having two card to produce draw if the lack of slots in thiss deck is very tight?

Verbal warning for terrible posting quality. Next one will be a full warning. Three warnings = site ban. Step it up. - Bardo

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Originally Posted by Seraphus

if u use wish for card draw due to the lack of hand u don't fetch for tolarian u fetch for meditate so what is the point of having two card to produce draw if the lack of slots in this deck is very tight?

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You have never fizzled after Wishing for a Meditate? Have you also never drawn 3 islands and a FOW off of a Meditate? Have you ever had a hand that only held a Cunning Wish in addition to numerous dead cards? Ask yourself these questions while playing and you might find that you too would benefit from Tolarian Winds once in a while. I looked for your sideboard in the past few pages but couldn't find it. Here's mine, do you propose cutting Winds for another bounce spell? I haven't had any issue against Counterbalance with this build.

3 Disrupt
3 Hydroblast
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Tolarian Winds
1 Hyrkyl's Recall
1 Meditate
1 Wipe Away
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Turnabout
1 Ravenous Trap

Does this deck really need opts ?
It seems playing main deck spell pierce would be really strong against the most problematic match-ups and really bad in easy match-ups.

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Originally Posted by TheyCallMeTim

You have never fizzled after Wishing for a Meditate? Have you also never drawn 3 islands and a FOW off of a Meditate? Have you ever had a hand that only held a Cunning Wish in addition to numerous dead cards? Ask yourself these questions while playing and you might find that you too would benefit from Tolarian Winds once in a while. I looked for your sideboard in the past few pages but couldn't find it. Here's mine, do you propose cutting Winds for another bounce spell? I haven't had any issue against Counterbalance with this build.

3 Disrupt
3 Hydroblast
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Tolarian Winds
1 Hyrkyl's Recall
1 Meditate
1 Wipe Away
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Turnabout
1 Ravenous Trap

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i understand the concept of the tolarian winds that u mention but the problematic point here is not if tolarian winds in certains matchs r good the problematic is sb free slots...
regarding ur sb (i post early my general opinion on solidarity's sb around page 28 or something): first the core sb cards -meditate; stroke; turnabout- is as usual right, but then u use Hurkyl's Recall instead of Rebuild witch is a mistake due to the fact that almost (95%) chalices will hit the table with 1 and 2 counters... ravenous trap is open to discussin but i think 2 or 3 echoing truth are better and versitily than 1 ravenous trap or even the single chain of vapor btw... disrupt and hydroblast are demandatory (the amount of thouse is a meta call)... u should run more wipe way since merfolks are now fashionable (bounce the lords and see how they loose the fast clock)...
and i don't like the card dissavantge of mystical tutor...

so i will do this sb:

3 echoing truth;
1 meditate;
1 stroke of genius;
1 turnabout;
1 rebuild;
2 wipe way;
3 disrupt;
3 hydroblast.

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Originally Posted by Seraphus

u use Hurkyl's Recall instead of Rebuild witch is a mistake due to the fact that almost (95%) chalices will hit the table with 1 and 2 counters...

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I actually still play Rebuild but plan on running Hurkyl's because I'd rather have the lower cost than worry about Chalice. By the time it's played for 2 (4 mana) I should have no problem answering it, most likely with a counter. Additionally, the anti-artifact targets in my meta are Stax and Aggro builds.

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Originally Posted by Seraphus

ravenous trap is open to discussin but i think 2 or 3 echoing truth are better and versitily than 1 ravenous trap or even the single chain of vapor

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Ok, so 2 Truths and 1 Trap. My worst match up is Dredge and it is quite common in my meta. Also, see lower casting cost argument.

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Originally Posted by Seraphus

u should run more wipe way since merfolks are now fashionable (bounce the lords and see how they loose the fast clock)...

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No Merfolk in my meta and have yet to actually get a Wipe Away with Cunning Wish.

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Originally Posted by Seraphus

and i don't like the card dissavantge of mystical tutor...

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Me neither, but the trade off of card advantage for card quality is frequently worth it.

So there's my reasoning behind the cards in my sideboard. Do you care to answer any questions I proposed regarding Tolarian Winds?

I would answer all your questions regarding my opinion on Tolarian Winds...

Regarding Rebuild vs Hurkyll's - Stax can make Chalice for 2 hit the table on the second turn... if you play Remand good, but otherwise ...

The Wipe Away isn't to be wished for, it is to be sided in game 2 aganist Merfolk (and if you want to be more radical, also the Echoing Truth).

I agree with 2 Echoing Truth you could take out the Chain of Vapor and the Tolarian Winds leaving the trap...

Mystical Tutor: I don't like it... I prefer hate spells against some matches than it...

Your posting record is atrocious. Proper grammar and spelling are required on this site. This is not AIM. Clean up your posting habits, begin to use proper grammar, and run a spell check before you post, or you will soon find yourself without the ability to post at all. Infraction issued. ~ Nightmare

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Originally Posted by Seraphus

The Wipe Away isn't to be wished for, it is to be sided in game 2 aganist Merfolk

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I'm not a fan of siding things in, I typically find it difficult when boarding Disrupt or Hydoblast (usually involves a combination of Opt and Brainstorm). My logic is that if 3 Main Deck slots are to be used (also very important slots) for Cunning Wish, I should try to maximize them. What happens when you board in Wipe Away or Echoing Truth and never draw them? Or worse, run out of cantrips and fizzle?

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Originally Posted by Lejay

Does this deck really need opts ?

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Are you serious? Opt is one of the best cards in this deck. The answer is yes.

if my posts aren't understandable kick me out now!!!

no one until now complain about my bad spelling so good luck to u all, i was thinking that i was giving something to the community that play solidarity but i
was mistakened... like if spelling Chain of Vapor is totaly diferent from Chain of vapor...

TheyCallMeTim -i am sorry, but it seams to me that our debate is canceled, if u want to debate more of solidarity share lists and strategy tell me and i send u a pm with my email...

Good luck to u all...

If we were the kind of site that frequently banned users for one offense, there would be far fewer members on this site. You are given three strikes. Use them however you wish. No one is questioning your contributions, just the manner in which you present them. There are rules on this site, and you are expected to follow them. Continuing to do otherwise will result in you being unable to participate. Very few others on the site have found that too much to ask. ~ Nightmare

I have:

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

Another one: Who thinks capitalization is necessary?
I do.

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Trap: 1 Trap in the SB is enough. It don't use too much space, you can tutor for it agains't Dreadge, or sometimes agains't Agroo Loam, which is nice, and is good agains't other combo decks (Igg), if you can counter the Chant effects.

Hey guys, just picked up Solidarity out of curiosity and I like it a lot.

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3 Disrupt
3 Hydroblast
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Tolarian Winds
1 Hyrkyl's Recall
1 Meditate
1 Wipe Away
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Turnabout
1 Ravenous Trap

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Why hydroblasts? You use them to counter REB's or something? And also, mystical tutor? What is your target usually?


Also, it has to be played on your turn, but I've always liked it:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...tiverseid=4478

Ancestral Knowledge 1U
Enchantment
Cumulative Upkeep 1
When Ancestral Knowledge enters the battlefield, look at the top ten cards of your library, then exile any number of them and put the rest back on top of your library in any order.
When Ancestral Knowledge leaves the battlefield, shuffle your library.

I haven't tested it in solidarity yet, but it digs you 10 cards deep, you can brainstorm or impulse into what you want before you have to pay the upkeep, or pay the upkeep, finding brainstorm then brainstorm away what you dont want, and the deck shuffles. You can also remove random land too if you already have like 5 or 6 (when you really dont need to draw more). I played it in dreamhalls.dec a while back and it was MVP. I can imagine it would enable you to find the trinity (high tide, reset, meditate) or even just doubles of shit, cunning wish for a problem hate bearer, protection spell, etc. It doesn't net you a card, but hey it does dig you 10 cards deep. Also, for the same mana you could play Lim-Dul's vault (and at instant speed). Has a black splash been tested? You get pretty good protection post board against control too while you are setting up. Lim-duls vault to me looks like a good flash of insight (I like flashbacking it but sometimes you just don't have the mana to make it work the first time). The only draw back I see in LDV is that it makes you lose life. I've only been gold fishing solidarity to get a hold of it right now so I don't know if it can handle LDV life loss. Ancestral Knowledge might be better in that case, but then again it may not be good at all when you can just brainstorm + impulse. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

Hey guys, just picked up Solidarity out of curiosity and I like it a lot.



Why hydroblasts? You use them to counter REB's or something? And also, mystical tutor? What is your target usually?

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I'm no Solidarity expert at all, but I'll attempt to answer your questions. Hydroblasts are there mainly to combat aggro like Goblins or, in lesser part, Burn spells from Zoo, which can seal the deal before Solidarity reaches the critical "combo-turn". Modern aggros have become so fast that they're able to handle this deck in speed, so adding some protection can prevent from nasty things like t1 lackey, t2--> drop the world and from damage shenanigans.
But still, I dunno if modern Solidarity builds still pack those.
Mystical tutor, as Van Phanel said some posts ago, should be to accelerate the odds of getting High tide against aggro, so it basically serves as a fifth high tide. However, it's not bad at all in getting you the missing pieces to start off the combo.

For the second question:

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

Also, it has to be played on your turn, but I've always liked it:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...tiverseid=4478

Ancestral Knowledge 1U
Enchantment

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Vacrix welcome to the group of solidarity players,

The Ancestral knowledge isn't playable due to the fact that it's an Enchantment, and solidarity is also called by instant speed deck, by other words it only runs instants (and lands) that is why it's so versatile...
The Mystical Tutor on sb is very debated around here (i don't like it do to is card disavantaged factor) - u can see, before the intervention of bad spelling/expulsion, my point of view and debating about it.

The lim-dul question: another color makes the deck vunerable to wasteland and stifle (when fetching for another color)...
You have some up to date decklists in (if im not mistaken) page 28 or 29...

i hope i could help you...

Thank you Seraphus for working on your capitalization. I hope you decide to stick around and put in the little bit of effort required to keep the Moderators happy. The rules are in place for everyone to follow so that The Source can be a quality reference for Magic players around the world. Unfortunately, most of us are in the North Eastern portion of the United States and English is our native language. We don't intend to exclude people, just to compile intellectual strategic discussions that anyone (able to speak English) can follow. Thank you for you contributions thus far and please continue to support our conversation.

With that said,welcome Vecrix. I hope you find these boards as helpful as I have. We have discussed many permanents in the past and have found countless times that any non-instant card is detrimental to our combo. You should find this to be accurate through your own testing when you encounter lands during combo-ing.

On the other topics of discussion:

Opt is necessary because the deck's goal in to continue drawing cards in order to reach a storm count high enough for a lethal Brainfreeze. It could possibly be replaced by other 'cantrips' such as Peek.

I also feel that Ravenous Trap can be run as a Wish target. It is effectively free to cast and attainable anytime you are able to cast Cunning Wish.

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Opt is necessary because the deck's goal in to continue drawing cards in order to reach a storm count high enough for a lethal Brainfreeze. It could possibly be replaced by other 'cantrips' such as Peek.

I also feel that Ravenous Trap can be run as a Wish target. It is effectively free to cast and attainable anytime you are able to cast Cunning Wish.

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Opt is pretty good. Too bad there isn't anything better. I might try a 2/2 split between peek and opt. Opt is good but how often is the card filtering relevant? Knowing info about your opponents hand seems important pretty important too, especially if you can go off now without protection when you know the opponent doesn't have protection.


Just throwing some ideas out there...Vision Charm. Especially against mono color, its a remand (without draw a card) for U instead of 1U. They can't play anything when you change their forests into swamps. It doesn't have the upside that remand has that you can draw a card but it does delay so you can hit your land drops, and sculpt your hand.

Also it has other utilities like being able to get rid of what ANT's mystical tutor just searched for, as well as phasing out artifacts like trinisphere/thorn of amethyst/cannonist so you can go off; however, it can't phase out chalice at 1 (but it can at 2) or bounce teeg.

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The lim-dul question: another color makes the deck vunerable to wasteland and stifle (when fetching for another color)...
You have some up to date decklists in (if im not mistaken) page 28 or 29...

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Well the list I found a few pages back already played fetches (too interact with brainstorm I'm sure) so Stifle is already a problem sometimes. As for vault, yea i guess that could cause problems. The upside is LDV is really good, provided you have enough life to cantrip into what you want.

Also:
Insidious Dreams
We already draw a lot of land, and all it calls for is for you to fetch 1 Underground Sea while going off. It ensures that you can discard all your extra land to find something relevant, brainstorm into meditate, draw all the stuff you searched for and keep going.

Black also lets you play discard against control. Even if its on your turn, you take some time to set up anyway.

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

Opt is pretty good. Too bad there isn't anything better. I might try a 2/2 split between peek and opt. Opt is good but how often is the card filtering relevant?

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I have found the card filtering to be quite relevant, whether it's early turn land drops or finding key cards.