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Mongoose isn't much better aginst Zoo either: he is too small early on and only trades with Cats once he hits Threshold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenarius
At least Grim can fry Pridemages and let your burn spells kill Goyfs: Goose can't do much to Zoo.
Last time I checked lavamancer had a point of power.Quote:
Grim doesnt kill creatures in Zoo either. It also just deals 2 damage, the same as Pyroclasm. Grim also dies against removal, pyroclasm cant.
Second: if you want to board in 7 things out against Zoo. Good luck? Can you tell me what you board out for the grim lavamancers? Burn?
Just play Pithing Needle. It helps against Top, Vial and Relic. I'm not going to discuss it over and over. Pithing Needle > Grim lavamancer as solution too Relic.
Lavamancer also helps you bolt goyf.
Lavamancer is also just good in general vs alot of matchups playing needle once again (unless naming deed or EE, and possibly top) feels underwhelming.
And are we really using the "Dies to removal" arguement?
Board out : 2 ponder 2 clique/bounce 2 mongoose 1 daze, these can be changed based on build but so what. Goose is pretty meh in the matchup snf lavamancer is faster and answers opposing mancers.
Lavamancer fries pridemages and occasionaly (with a lucky waste hit) you will fry a cat/ape, but as above said, he still traides with nactal. In addition to making your burn better (how much better is fire with lavamancer!)Quote:
Mongoose isn't much better aginst Zoo either: he is too small early on and only trades with Cats once he hits Threshold.
At least Grim can fry Pridemages and let your burn spells kill Goyfs: Goose can't do much to Zoo.
Im not saying its impossible for me to be wrong but I think you should at least test it before ridiculeing. Im not advocating replacing goose or anything like that im simply saying in some matchups goose is just not that hot and lavamancer is very very hot in several of those...
Quote:
Originally Posted by undone
Oh yeah, that's right. Grim can block and then shoot a Cat before combat damage. They both die, but Grim doesn't need 7 cards to be in the yard.
there new rules u kno. combat dmg doesnt stack.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
If I could face palm harder my brain would be splattered all over the wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by EaD
:rolleyes:
Block, shoot resolve damage. cat dies
now on topic. Thats the point, lavamancer basicaly has "Threshold 2" instead of "Threshold 7" for him to work which is key in the early game, the only reason he can never be main deck is because shroud is hugely relivant to probably around 70% of all matches, where as with goblins/folk its RARELY relivant and with zoo who cares thier dudesare way bigger than mongoose.
nvm. happens to the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by undone
Proper capitalization and grammar are requirements on these boards. Please use them. Thanks. - zilla
Wild Nacatl.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksandr
http://sales.starcitygames.com//card...?product=52959
Trying to get as many posts as possible?Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Anyway, lets discuss something else. What is our strategy/goal against Landstill UW(x) and how do we board against Landstill UW(x)? How should we play against UW(x) Landstill?
For the people who do carry Pithing Needle's with them in their sideboard. Do you think Pithing Needle are good enough against Landstill? I mean there are enough target that are ownage against you f.e. Factory, (mb wasteland(/crucible)), Elspeth, Jace, Explosives and top etc.
Are Pyroblast good enough to board in? They only carry:
3 Spell snare
3 Counterspell (Spell snare hits that too)
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Standstill (Spell snare hits that too)
2 Cunning Wish
2 Jace Beleren/Fact or Fiction
Taking a normal list or something like that. As you can see, I think Pyroblast should be boarded in. I don't know if they have to come in for Spell Snare's but you probably can take out 2 or 3 of them.
Should we board out burn? How many?
Well, hopefully you'll pick this up.
Well, for one thing, the new spell pierce has the wording;
"U
When playing against Any Landstill deck, counter any spell in your opponents deck for the first 3-6 rounds."
I think that's pretty hot.
EDIT; My first testing will be to carry around 4 of these spells in the SB instead of disrupt. I like disrupt, but I think Spell Pierce is a lot broader. So I would board in these, and I agree on the pyroblasts as well. Out would probably go 2 fire // ice, 2 bounce, 1 ponder, 2 daze, 1 snare or something like that.
Huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenarius
Haven't you already told how to run this mu some pages back?
Anyway, I guess it's a good strategy to board in needles, since they hold the ls player off top action, which strenghtens our stifle/waste concept against them.
Also needling their factories helps mungo a lot and stifle is a house against decrees.
More than often you will find yourself in need of needling explosives, to shut them down off their only removal for mongoose and needle itself - and here is also the weak point of needle - they can get rid of it with a lone explosives if you don't name EE.
But I think we should still board and go for needle because we can back it up with stifles.
That's for the obvious part.
The blast point: I recommend boarding it. It shut's off their CA-engine and helps you win counterwars, which is needed to force mongoose on the board and to protect it.
The simplest explanation for the landstill matchup
Goose>landstill
EE> Goose
Stifle> EE
so logicaly we can conclude that
Stifle> landstill
The 12 best cards in your deck are 4 goose 4 stifle 4 FOW, keeping a hand without one or two of those is a recipie for disaster.
And since Pithing Needle is a Stifle on a stick, wouldn't you like Pithing Needles in your sideboard?Quote:
Originally Posted by undone
You made a valid point about Grim Lavamancer: he should be tested. What does a sideboard packing Grim Lavamancer look like?
Also, if you're packing 2-3 Pyroclasms, shouldn't one or more be Firespout? Since that does deal with Cats. And Apes. Unfortunately also with Mongeese.
There are several reasons why TT should not pack Firespout:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeggi
1. CC3 (instead of CC2)
2. Kills your own Mongoose
Do I need to say more? Probably not.
Firespout is a sorceryspeed cc3 spell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeggi
Canadian can't afford to tap out and cc3 is slightly too high for this deck.
Also Wasteland Pyroclasm combo kills cats and apes but let's mungos survive.
Pretty much whats been said 3 mana is too much for cards that arent vendillion clique or instants. Also killing goose is a nombo.
Grip/predator deals with more than needle and isnt narrow as needle (as you cant hit fetches with it and nameing wasteland is not fun times.) its alot differant than stifle in that they dont pay the cost to do it and can sweep away needle later and instantly have access to those cards.Quote:
And since Pithing Needle is a Stifle on a stick, wouldn't you like Pithing Needles in your sideboard?
this is mineQuote:
You made a valid point about Grim Lavamancer: he should be tested. What does a sideboard packing Grim Lavamancer look like?
4 REB/Pyroblast
4 Submerge
2 Predator
2 Grip
3 lavamancer
Submerge is awsome so is grip and mancer. REB is also just generaly good.
So, against Merfolk for instance, you'd go -4 Nimble Mongoose, -2 Force Spike/Vendilion Clique (depending on your build), -1 something else, +3 Grim Lavamancer, +4 Red Blast?
Against Zoo it'd be -4 Nimble Mongoose, -2 Force Spike/Vendilion Clique, -1 something else, +3 Grim Lavamancer, +4 Submerge?
Amirite? What would the something else be? A Ponder perhaps? But isn't Nimble Mongoose alot better against Zoo because of Shroud? So where would you side in Grim Lavamancer besides Merfolk?
thats pretty close although I would probably board out a ponder instead of the 4th goose, as you can always get rid of goose but you need more threats. I also keep clique on the play, not on the draw though. Again this is if you expect relics/crypts. If you dont than you cant cut goose you cut something else probably for 2 mancers (cliques probably)Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeggi
Firespout seems awesome in the zoo matchup, but kind of bad against everything else. Against zoo, it kills pretty much anything, they don't have mana denial so you can easily get three land, mongoose is crap in that matchup so killing one of your own doesn't seem awful. However, I think EE just makes more sense in the board against zoo. EE is also better against merfolk than pyroclasm is. I guess pyroclasms ony real use is against gobbos, and I think that matchup is still favorable without it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeggi
versus zoo what about
play -2clique -1 goose -4 f/i +4 submerge +3 lavamancer
draw -4 stifle -2 clique -1 daze +4 submerge +3 lavamancer
could also play 1 pyroclasm/crypt in the board instaed of the 3rd mancer and only need 6 spots.
Seems good. If I had to pick another card for the board its crypt or spell pierce. Pierce is good because it counters 3sphear, stax, chalice, and so on. It does help other matchups ALOT I think I could see doing this boardQuote:
firstshot versus zoo what about
play -2clique -1 goose -4 f/i +4 submerge +3 lavamancer
draw -4 stifle -2 clique -1 daze +4 submerge +3 lavamancer
could also play 1 pyroclasm/crypt in the board instaed of the 3rd mancer and only need 6 spots.
3 spell pierce
4 submerge
4 REB/pyroblast
2 Grip
2 Lavamancer
The reason pierce is so awsome is that it frequently answers relic, is an answer to T1/2 top, its an additional tax spell if we want to pierce/daze a top for a psudo mana leak and if people actualy play around it thats like adding a time walk to the deck, if not its also another out to CB.
Relivant cards pierce doesnt hit is something like
Goyf
Mongoose
Rhox war monk
Dreadnaught (kind of?)
Tombstalker
I didnt cover the creatures where burn will do because we already have answers to those. This card is a solution to the following decks
Stax
Stompy
Landstill
Stupid black decks playing hymn/duress/rit/smother
And helps a fair amount in the following matchups depending on build
Burn
Counter top thresh
combo (not that we have a bad matchup here)
Ichorid (snares are just dead cold these are actualy 1 mana hard counters 90% of the time even for things like dread return if you arent dead to tokens)
Crypt also helps a multitude of matches by helping ichorid, landstill, aggro loam, and 43 lands, although I think that those are less common than the matchups pierce helps. Probably a metagame choice to be honest it will be interesting to see if pierce is as good as it looks on paper, it could be a big flop but im going to guess people in legacy will either not play around it or better yet, they will.