Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
paeng4983
3rd dredge
nettle sentinel pumped with
two invigorates plus two berserks were just too awesome for
him to handle.
2-1
5th merpok
in our 3rd game, rushwood legate was the bomb!
1st turn drop forest then two rushwood legates
and a skargan. wow next turn swing for 9 damage
(skargan enchanted with two rancors, SWEET)
3-2
Those hands are crazy ^^ Good luck !! ;)
To: Tru3z3rox
The 1/1 infect sounds like a possible new Kavu, don't you think guys? I mean, he has a non-sacrifice Berserk on him!!!
The only problem with infect is that the creatures don't deal damage, so it's 9 poision counters = Nothing !!! :S
The good thing with him is that we can still play Invigorate, because +3 life it's ok, while we get +4 poison counters ^^
I would probably try to use a more comboish version of the deck with Blight Mamba, though, probably w/ wordly tutor and those things.
To: Gui_Brasil
You have an outstanding imagination ^^ I would LOVE to see that card printed :)
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
I'm just not sure what to pull for it. The list of creatures is so tight. Skarrgan Pit-skulk? Only one I can think of that is sort of a flex slot. He has amazing evasion though....
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Well it looks like we are going to be splashing red now. With the printing of Assault Strobe:R Sorcery-Target creature gains double strike until end of turn, the red splash is looking mighty good right now. Assault Strobe is basically Beserk 5-8.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LordEvilTeaCup
Well it looks like we are going to be splashing red now. With the printing of Assault Strobe:R Sorcery-Target creature gains double strike until end of turn, the red splash is looking mighty good right now. Assault Strobe is basically Beserk 5-8.
Yes, seems so. Not even double cleave or the protection mono color offers seems to beat the power this card would add to the deck.
Actually, Tainted strike seems like an even better option.
Instant :b:
Target creature gets +1/+0 and gains infect until end of turn.
Thinking a bit about it, this is one line to follow: add Tainted Strike and the new 2cc black 1/1 flying creature with infect (I think the name is "Plague Stinger") to the deck (maybe 2 or 3, maybe reducing the amount of Kavus, or adding accelerators to handle more 2cc creatures).
Black splash also allows us to add dures/toughtseize to sideboard, and possible Bob to maindeck or sideboard. Also let us play removals against Zoo.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Actually I think green has enough for us to not need to splash. Color fixing could be a problem. This deck runs very little land and does not want to be disrupted at all. A single wasteland could ruin half of your hand. I've been a fan of seal of strength. I can drop it early when I'm mana screwed and save the later mana for berserk.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tru3z3rox
Actually I think green has enough for us to not need to splash. Color fixing could be a problem. This deck runs very little land and does not want to be disrupted at all. A single wasteland could ruin half of your hand. I've been a fan of seal of strength. I can drop it early when I'm mana screwed and save the later mana for berserk.
Well, maybe it has enough, but with another 1cc double damage card (even better, with a +1/+0) the deck would probably be a lot better than what green can do. Even if that means reviewing these 18lands lists, which were stable as monogreen. IMO we don't need a major splash, just enough for us to add the black zerk and the black 1/1 flying infect creature.
This would be a start:
4 Invigorate
4 Rancor
4 Berserk
4 Tainted Strike
4 Might of Old Krosa
2 Sarcomancy
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Kavu Predator
4 Plague Stinger
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
6 Forest
4 Bayou
Sideboard could include duress, which is some aditional weapon against combo, and maybe smother, to deal with zoo critters, or diabolic edict, to use against Prog too...
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gui_Brasil
Well, maybe it has enough, but with another 1cc double damage card (even better, with a +1/+0) the deck would probably be a lot better than what green can do. Even if that means reviewing these 18lands lists, which were stable as monogreen. IMO we don't need a major splash, just enough for us to add the black zerk and the black 1/1 flying infect creature.
This would be a start:
4 Invigorate
4 Rancor
4 Berserk
4 Tainted Strike
4 Might of Old Krosa
2 Sarcomancy
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Kavu Predator
4 Plague Stinger
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
6 Forest
4 Bayou
Sideboard could include duress, which is some aditional weapon against combo, and maybe smother, to deal with zoo critters, or diabolic edict, to use against Prog too...
Name things that you want more of and I'll name you green cards that do them.
Infect creatures? The regenerating Mamba and Ichor Myr both can be used in green. I actually really like Ichor with rancor. Granted no evasion, but revelent abilities.
Green also offers Sylvan Library which is CA and card quality. I can't believe green lists are not running it.
P.S. - If you choose to run infect it is best to run only infect creatures. I've play tested a mixed list and I usually wished 1 was the other. We need to concentrate on actually damage or poison counters.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tru3z3rox
Name things that you want more of and I'll name you green cards that do them.
Infect creatures? The regenerating Mamba and Ichor Myr both can be used in green. I actually really like Ichor with rancor. Granted no evasion, but revelent abilities.
Green also offers Sylvan Library which is CA and card quality. I can't believe green lists are not running it.
P.S. - If you choose to run infect it is best to run only infect creatures. I've play tested a mixed list and I usually wished 1 was the other. We need to concentrate on actually damage or poison counters.
Yes, damage stacking is a problem that comes to mind, since it's useless to deal early damage and then try to kill with Tainted Strike... This has to be thought of, of course I have no idea on how effective it is yet.
The card I obviously named, and that green has no other option, is Tainted Strike (or red "Assault Strobe"), which are the additional Berserks. Well, at least the one card I wish I had every game is Berserk. These put us one step ahead in the combo plan, while is still the same in the aggro plan.
Sylvan Library isn't bad at all... have you been testing it? You could share your results... mine, long ago, were the same with or without it, to be honest.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gui_Brasil
Yes, damage stacking is a problem that comes to mind, since it's useless to deal early damage and then try to kill with Tainted Strike... This has to be thought of, of course I have no idea on how effective it is yet.
The card I obviously named, and that green has no other option, is Tainted Strike (or red "Assault Strobe"), which are the additional Berserks. Well, at least the one card I wish I had every game is Berserk. These put us one step ahead in the combo plan, while is still the same in the aggro plan.
Sylvan Library isn't bad at all... have you been testing it? You could share your results... mine, long ago, were the same with or without it, to be honest.
Yes I've been thoroughly testing the mamba and the ichor lately and I've been hating it mixed in. We cannot do both in my opinion.
If red was to be splashed I'd say only for the Assault strobe. I think black is not worth it even for that infect pump spell as you'd want most of your dudes to have infect anyway. The issue with this card is that it is a sorcery.
Sylvan has always been amazing for me. I take tons of damage just to draw with it and fix my draw. It makes us much faster in my opinion especially power it out turn 1 with ESG. You can go for a kill a full 2 turns sooner if you pain yourself with the extra pump draw. Also it lets us race other combo decks better so that all of that disruption won't be necessary. After all...aren't we a combo deck?
So basically in other words the splash would only add 1 card. Worth it or not?
P.S. - Assault strobe doesn't give trample either which can be very relevant.
P.P.S. - Switching to a completely infect based creature base would cut down the need for such splashes and the need for berserk (still used, but only 10 damage needs to be done)
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tru3z3rox
Yes I've been thoroughly testing the mamba and the ichor lately and I've been hating it mixed in. We cannot do both in my opinion.
If red was to be splashed I'd say only for the Assault strobe. I think black is not worth it even for that infect pump spell as you'd want most of your dudes to have infect anyway. The issue with this card is that it is a sorcery.
Sylvan has always been amazing for me. I take tons of damage just to draw with it and fix my draw. It makes us much faster in my opinion especially power it out turn 1 with ESG. You can go for a kill a full 2 turns sooner if you pain yourself with the extra pump draw. Also it lets us race other combo decks better so that all of that disruption won't be necessary. After all...aren't we a combo deck?
So basically in other words the splash would only add 1 card. Worth it or not?
P.S. - Assault strobe doesn't give trample either which can be very relevant.
Well, yes, Sylvan fix your draw, but as a combo deck, I found that I don't want to spend that amount of resources for something that tecnically won't add damage (unless of course you spend those 4 life per card, draw pumps, and spend these other :g: for them)... The speed you earn by fixing your draws, I earn by having more business... It ended up in the same way. Even tho, it's been some time since I last tested it, these were the conclusions I reached, but Libraries can be used, I see the point.
Stating that you need all creatures to have infect in order to play Tainted Strike is not true. What will happen is that you will have to hold tainted strike until you are able to grow your creature to 10/x. Having zerks and invigorates would help it out a lot too.
IMO, if you are playing Tainted Strike, you don't even want to run extra infect creatures, since 2x infect won't stack, and you'll end up with an useless card. Not even know if it's worth running 4-of Tainted Strike due to that reason. But the red one can be used as 4-of for sure. (edit: not that sure, since it won't stack one to the other either...)
And yes, my opinion so far is that the addition of 1cc Berserks is already worth the splash. And, there are the sideboard options too. Red also got some spot removals and reckless charge, and black got disruption and decent removals.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gui_Brasil
Well, yes, Sylvan fix your draw, but as a combo deck, I found that I don't want to spend that amount of resources for something that tecnically won't add damage (unless of course you spend those 4 life per card, draw pumps, and spend these other :g: for them)... The speed you earn by fixing your draws, I earn by having more business... It ended up in the same way. Even tho, it's been some time since I last tested it, these were the conclusions I reached, but Libraries can be used, I see the point.
Stating that you need all creatures to have infect in order to play Tainted Strike is not true. What will happen is that you will have to hold tainted strike until you are able to grow your creature to 10/x. Having zerks and invigorates would help it out a lot too.
IMO, if you are playing Tainted Strike, you don't even want to run extra infect creatures, since 2x infect won't stack, and you'll end up with an useless card. Not even know if it's worth running 4-of Tainted Strike due to that reason. But the red one can be used as 4-of for sure.
And yes, my opinion so far is that the addition of 1cc Berserks is already worth the splash. And, there are the sideboard options too. Red also got some spot removals and reckless charge, and black got disruption and decent removals.
I see your point, but what if you needed a specific creature or pump spell that was the 3rd card down? Or you needed 2 of the cards on top in order to finish it. My point is simply that it fixes your draw very well and I only run it as a 3 of anyway. You should give it a try. You won't regret it.
The infect creatures only need to do 10 damage total in order to win, but having to wait for a pump card to add infect could be pointless if you've almost won with actual damage anyway. The only issue I find with them is that they are inferior in their evasion and protection. Sylhana has won me so many games against heavy removal decks. If we go all in on infect then splashing is definitely not necessary (I'm hoping they print a troll shrouded infect creature soon). If we stay with out current creature base it would be more worth it to splash for red than black.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tru3z3rox
I see your point, but what if you needed a specific creature or pump spell that was the 3rd card down? Or you needed 2 of the cards on top in order to finish it. My point is simply that it fixes your draw very well and I only run it as a 3 of anyway. You should give it a try. You won't regret it.
The infect creatures only need to do 10 damage total in order to win, but having to wait for a pump card to add infect could be pointless if you've almost won with actual damage anyway. The only issue I find with them is that they are inferior in their evasion and protection. Sylhana has won me so many games against heavy removal decks. If we go all in on infect then splashing is definitely not necessary (I'm hoping they print a troll shrouded infect creature soon). If we stay with out current creature base it would be more worth it to splash for red than black.
Well, but i'm not suggesting going all-in infect. I'm suggesting to use it as 5-8 Berserk, and possibly using a creature that would have a self-included Berserk. Tainted Strike wouldn't work at a infect creatures base.
The worse part about the black one is that it won't help you finish the game when you did a considerable amount of damage, and would have to hold your pumps until you can kill your opponent, which is already HIGHLY recommended. The good part is the +1/+0, and the fact that enables us to run these disruptive sideboard options we all know.
The good part about the red one is that Etienne's List will become even more powerfull :D
The reason why either new zerks are worse than original berserk is that neither stacks with a second copy.
A list with 7-8 zerks, looking a lot like our current list, but with the minor splash, would increase our chance to combo a lot, while almost the same at any other situation.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gui_Brasil
Yes, seems so. Not even double cleave or the protection mono color offers seems to beat the power this card would add to the deck.
Actually, Tainted strike seems like an even better option.
Instant :b:
Target creature gets +1/+0 and gains infect until end of turn.
Thinking a bit about it, this is one line to follow: add Tainted Strike and the new 2cc black 1/1 flying creature with infect (I think the name is "Plague Stinger") to the deck (maybe 2 or 3, maybe reducing the amount of Kavus, or adding accelerators to handle more 2cc creatures).
Black splash also allows us to add dures/toughtseize to sideboard, and possible Bob to maindeck or sideboard. Also let us play removals against Zoo.
Hmmm, I am inclined to disagree. What I don't like about the infect plan, poison counters are only useful when we get them to 10. What happens when you almost get there, and your infect dude is dealt with. I think the cost here is greater than usuall, because where as regular damage is never wasted, having your opponent stuck at 9 poison counters and no infect card in sight is game over. Red would give us goblin guide and lightning bolt as well, and the as to which splash would be better should be thoroughly tested. Mono green stompy is defunct now though. Green Stompy doesn't cut it anymore, so who really cares about the safety a mono manabase provides. The red or black splash though could make a deck that could possibly take it in some metas.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LordEvilTeaCup
Hmmm, I am inclined to disagree. What I don't like about the infect plan, poison counters are only useful when we get them to 10. What happens when you almost get there, and your infect dude is dealt with. I think the cost here is greater than usuall, because where as regular damage is never wasted, having your opponent stuck at 9 poison counters and no infect card in sight is game over. Red would give us goblin guide and lightning bolt as well, and the as to which splash would be better should be thoroughly tested. Mono green stompy is defunct now though. Green Stompy doesn't cut it anymore, so who really cares about the safety a mono manabase provides. The red or black splash though could make a deck that could possibly take it in some metas.
Yet, the black one got the +1/+0 (+1 counter out of 10, meaning something like +2 dmg), and can cancel Invigorate's drawback entirely, meaning Invigorate + any other pump + Black zerk = kill
I'm not saying black is set on stone tho, just pointing the viable tricks
For example, Rancor is a lot less usefull with the black pump.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gui_Brasil
Yet, the black one got the +1/+0 (+1 counter out of 10, meaning something like +2 dmg), and can cancel Invigorate's drawback entirely, meaning Invigorate + any other pump + Black zerk = kill
I'm not saying black is set on stone tho, just pointing the viable tricks
True, but in general the kill will be about the same speed. My qualm is mainly with the infect flyer who comes down turn 2, and whose damage is only relevant if you go all the way. It could also lead to us having to over-extend with our pumps into a kill spell. Funny enough Kavu Predator kills with Invigorate + pump + red zerk, although I do see your point with the black zerk negating the drawback of invigorate and that kills with ANY creature by itself. Still, I am not convinced that the black splash will be much faster than the red splash and feel the red splash will have more consistency. Only 1 creature with infect, and only 1 pump spell with infect. Granted, the access to discard for the combo match is intriguing.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gui_Brasil
Well, but i'm not suggesting going all-in infect. I'm suggesting to use it as 5-8 Berserk, and possibly using a creature that would have a self-included Berserk. Tainted Strike wouldn't work at a infect creatures base.
The worse part about the black one is that it won't help you finish the game when you did a considerable amount of damage, and would have to hold your pumps until you can kill your opponent, which is already HIGHLY recommended. The good part is the +1/+0, and the fact that enables us to run these disruptive sideboard options we all know.
The good part about the red one is that Etienne's List will become even more powerfull :D
The reason why either new zerks are worse than original berserk is that neither stacks with a second copy.
A list with 7-8 zerks, looking a lot like our current list, but with the minor splash, would increase our chance to combo a lot, while almost the same at any other situation.
I know what you meant. I was advocating staying mono green and just having all infect creatures making the black infect pump invalid.
That is my point exactly. In my playing it has been really annoying stuck with one or the other and not being able to finish the game. I guess what I am saying is if I HAD TO splash it'd be for red and not black. I feel the red spell is better than the black and I'd only run it as a 2-3 of. I just feel that splashing for 2-3 extra cards is not worth it. I also play elves and merfolk so I know what disruption can do. Hence I'm advocating the safety of mono green.
P.S. - It also means that ESG isn't as godly as in a mono G deck.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gui_Brasil
Yet, the black one got the +1/+0 (+1 counter out of 10, meaning something like +2 dmg), and can cancel Invigorate's drawback entirely, meaning Invigorate + any other pump + Black zerk = kill
I'm not saying black is set on stone tho, just pointing the viable tricks
For example, Rancor is a lot less usefull with the black pump.
Yes that is the first thing I noticed with the infect mechanic. Invigorate does become that much more deadly.
Rancor is actually the weakest pump in the deck, but I like it as I can stick it on and swing for 3-5 a turn with silhana until I get the extra pump. That is the same reason I like the seals. You drop them and they are a scary board presence.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
By the way..here is my list just for reference.
Deck
Lands:
8 Forests
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforests
1 Windswept Heath
Enchantments:
3 Sylvan Library
4 Seal of Strength
4 Rancor
Instants:
4 Berserk
2 Vines of Vastwood
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Invigorate
Creatures:
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Kavu Predator
3 Noble Hierarch
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tru3z3rox
Yes that is the first thing I noticed with the infect mechanic. Invigorate does become that much more deadly.
Rancor is actually the weakest pump in the deck, but I like it as I can stick it on and swing for 3-5 a turn with silhana until I get the extra pump. That is the same reason I like the seals. You drop them and they are a scary board presence.
I don't agree that rancor is the weakest pump: Rancor is an awesome pump for our second plan: aggro (a.k.a. the reason to play berserk stompy instead of a regular combo deck like ANT/TES). With rancor, we stack some early damage so that the final blow demands us less cards, and it's final damage end up to be as deadly as the other pumps.
That turns me more to the red berserk side, since with the black one, we would be giving up to be giving up aggro, which is so good against controls decks running blue, like threshold. Red zerk is better at stacking damage, and then final blow, which is our common strategy...
Only thing is that black still gives us more sideboard options...
While for mono green, I think blight mamba (which would be double as awesome if her name was "Black Mamba") is the first (only?) thing to try... It is awesome because of its synergy with invigorate
EDIT:
@Tru3z3rox
Don't you miss bogle @ you list? I think Bogle is an important piece against current Zoo infested meta
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gui_Brasil
I don't agree that rancor is the weakest pump: Rancor is an awesome pump for our second plan: aggro (a.k.a. the reason to play berserk stompy instead of a regular combo deck like ANT/TES). With rancor, we stack some early damage so that the final blow demands us less cards, and it's final damage end up to be as deadly as the other pumps.
That turns me more to the red berserk side, since with the black one, we would be giving up to be giving up aggro, which is so good against controls decks running blue, like threshold. Red zerk is better at stacking damage, and then final blow, which is our common strategy...
Only thing is that black still gives us more sideboard options...
While for mono green, I think blight mamba (which would be double as awesome if her name was "Black Mamba") is the first (only?) thing to try... It is awesome because of its synergy with invigorate
EDIT:
@Tru3z3rox
Don't you miss bogle @ you list? I think Bogle is an important piece against current Zoo infested meta
Silhana is enough as I also run invigorate to boost predator out of bolt range and vines of vastwood to protect against path. Zoo is not a difficult match.
