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I guess Covetous is better than Slogger if you are playing equips, as it has evasion... On the other hand Slogger implies almost in any case 4 shocks
I'm going with 2 covetous right now, looking like this:
2 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
2 Covetous dragon
3 Moltensteel Dragon
4 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
2 FTK
4 Seething Song
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
2 jitte
3 SoBaM
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Great furnace
7 Mountain
That might be right, but when ypu play 20 Screw-Parts and 30 Mana Parts, you have only 10 cards for the kill, and Equipment reduces these "kill-slots". Also Equipment is no thread by itself. [yeah, I know, Batterskull, but you get my point =P]
Congratz on your finish! =D
Reading about some DS action is nice, i laughed especially at the part where you asked for his life and played with your moltensteel haha. I do that all the time.
Any more informations about how your choices turned out would be nice too.
Would you prefer Slogger over Batterskull again or would you replace Lord of Shatterskull with something else too? etc
How about Chaos warp? :D
@Necro, consider that equips SSG and magus into good beaters. Plus, after cutting Gathans and RPD (the hellbent choice hasn't been working out quite well as I can see), I feel like DS equip (playing with beaters, not priest nor revoker) can make the deal in this general meta.
@ThoSha, guess I still prefer Slogger over Batterskull (I need the red mana in my list, so...): much more of a beater, finisher (4 shocks can certainly win you many games) and an aggro/control creature.
ThoSha: Sloggers over Batterskull all day, I need a replacement for Shatterskull, but it doesn't exist...
guidogukp: true, but Swords arent beaters by itself... any why no Revokers in equip-DS Oo?
Just personal opinion, I'm not much of a fan of revokers... I'd rather play FTK instead
Revoker, for me, is way a too situational card... so I consider it not to be THAT good, and certainly not for the MD. On the other hand, it'd lower my red card count
Anyway, I think the main decision is whether to play equips or not, and then your decklist would come almost naturally
I really like a full set of Moltensteel mained, and I think if you want equips then using Rakdos Pit is still worth it, as the double-strike is really nice with SOBAM.
I also like the idea of just using equips, plus Moltensteel/Slogger/something as finishers, maybe just Revoker and LOSP (drr) and cut Hellbent altogether, though I really think Rakdos and equips are to awesome to eschew together.
After my tourney yesterday (wrote a report but apparantly the Forum decided to be stupid and say "Dur, scroll back to recover, durr, we deleted it when you scrolled back) I made a few observations for the deck:
1) In every instance I had a Slogger Batterskull would have made a much bigger impact on the game state. Surprisingly I drew a Slogger in every MU (Gobs/Affinity/MBA/UR Control) and even did the T1 Song->Slogger 3 times and in each instance I would have preffered Batterskull (esp. against Gobos which played the card that makes their deck viable, Ringleader, pulling off a Gempalm/Piledriver/Ringleader that won them game 3 -.-). I already have 1 Batterskull for SFM so once I get the 2nd I plan to take out 2 Sloggers for them and see how it fans out.
2) Mountain Yeti=Sex. The Pro-White is highly relevant as white is the primary source of removal and this also enables it to block KotR all day.
3) After some discussion with the other DS player in my meta we're both considering testing out -4 FTK for +3 Red Sun's Zenith. Although FTK is amazing in our meta due to the excessive amounts of aggro on occassion we have been unable to cast the 3R immediately when needed. An early Hierarch/Mom/Lackey/Bob/etc. can give the opponent an amazing edge over us. Albeit FTK deals 4 damage and provides us with a beater but sometimes I've found it more relevant to have cheap removal immediately not to mention RSZ seems like it might have less diminishing returns as the game progresses.
4) I don't want to up my Kazuul count to 4 (currently 2) in the SB because I think its overkill but just once I'd like to actually draw/cast this card at a relevant time in a tribal MU. Seriously, it would save me so many losses if I could just draw it.
5) I don't run Phyrexian Metamorph but my fellow DS player does and last night (even though he went 0-4) he said it was highly relevant as he copied a Batterskull/Jitte/Progenitus/'Goyf/and 1-2 other cards. Are you guys having similar success with Metamorph? (When we were listing all the stuff it could copy both he and I were like: "OMGOGGLES it can copy SDT! Yay for card fixing! Oh, wait: ETB. They'll just put Top on top of deck. Dammit that card is so annoying."
Forlorn Egoist
I'm going with Traitorous instinct instead of metamorph, though it cannot deal with equips nor progenitus like metamorph I consider it to be better as even stealing a 4/5 goyf you deal a great dmg with it and in many cases it gives you the match.
Anyway, I'll be trying metamorph again in some time.
hmm, would you report again?
Also, if Red Sun's Zenith end up being good, how about including Rosheen Meanderer as a beater?
Phyrexian Metamorph seems good in theory, but IMO it's only a sideboard card here =/
Oh, and btw, what about Spitebellows as a removal creature?
Yea, I'll write up the report again. Its just that I'm the type of person who likes doing a play-by-play breakdown and doing such for 4 matches only to have it deleted just made me do a ragequit.
@ Rosheen Meanderer By the Gods! Chalice @3 is now within reach!
@ Spitebellows: Interesting. Kills 'Goyfs and 3cc is quite reasonable to remove a good majority of creature threats. Add Ingot Chewer to the SB and we have now made Evoke the new super-awesome DS tech!
Forlorn Egoist
Chalice 3 is somewhat self-killing, why would you do that? =D
Maybe I'll test Spitebellows the next tourney I compete, but I just <3 Kavu too much =/
I am also thinking of maindecking 4 Kuldotha Forgemasters and a Blightsteel =D would be hilarious if that works =D
Red Suns Zenith?
That card is just another crap Blaze. =/
But you could pair the Wanderer up with Wormcoil Engine. :P
Actually its a better Blaze =D
...and about the Meanderer ---> "Spend this mana only on costs that contain {X}."
Not at all. It might be better against Dredge, but compared to Demonfire it can just be countered.
Makes it a weak removal and a weak finisher for me.
Oh damn, i thought i forgot about something. nvm
I agreee that none of any X-damage spells is ideal...
neither is Demonfire because of its Hellbentishness...
If you want uncounterable/preventable stuff play Banefire or Urza's Rage which are suboptimal also.
I'm looking to strengthen my post-board games.
The matchups I feel I need to board for that I expect to be present are:
Merfolk (which I have historically had a hard time with for some reason)
Control
Dedge
Affinity
Meandeck MUD
I will post my list for reference at the end of the post but it's the same main deck that I last posted. The side board is as follows:
Seething Song 4
Arc-Slogger 2
Shattering Spree 2
Firespout 3
Anarchy 3
Kazzul, Tyrant of the Cliffs 1
So it's slightly more difficult to discuss the side board because I have been keeping my Seething Song/Arc-Slogger package there. It has been working really well for me. Our metagame is diverse enough that I can't expect a majority to be agro/tribal. Slogger has been amazing so I definitely want to have it in the board. I only have room for 2 because I won't want to go above 3 cards in my 5CMC slot since they can be difficult to play without seething song. I Kazzul as a one of and I would bring it in for the same matchups as slogger. Song can be great with shattering spree and as I mentioned, Meandeck MUD and Affinity are present.
The Spouts are there because I feel even with the song/slogger+kazuul package I know that Merfolk could definitely be a deck that I face and as I mentioned, they tend to give me a hard time. 2 damage sweepers don't cut it these days (been feeling this pain lately with one my favorites, grim lavamancer, in other decks) and I think spout is the optimal choice despite fallout's uncounterability.
I would say that the odds of playing against Dredge are fairly bad. I bring it up because aside from maybe Kazuul, I don't have a Dredge plan and am hoping to dodge it. I wouldn't mind having graveyard hate if possible. I used to have two Ratchet Bombs to deal with Empty the Warrens tokens and zombies. Thoughts?
Aside from shutting down Control with Moon effects, I'm really wondering if three Anarchy will cut it against the many Peacekeeper and Moat I believe to be a real a real problem. I only have 2 [cards]Shattering Spree[cards] to deal with Ensnaring Bridge but somehow I feel better about dealing with Ensnaring Bridge than the white permanents I already mentioned. I don't like Chaos Warp because I know it'll reveal a Jace 2.0 and they'll bounce my threat (lol). Sure, there are good odds it will be a land but I don't think taking the chance is worth the weakening of other matchups by taking other side board cards that are needed to improve matches against other archetypes.
Long story short, I have some time to brainstorm about it so I am wondering how you all deal with similar issues (peacekeeper effects, tribal, etc). It may be worth it to consider my main deck when making suggestions how I might be able to improve my situation.
My maindeck is firm, even if I have to abandon the song/slogger package in the board for alternative strategies to fight tribal. It has been the most consistent version of Hellbent Dragon Stompy I have tested/played with. Although, I am tempted to add 1 more copy of Sword of War and Peace though I'm not sure what I would remove for it (as I mentioned, this equip is the real deal in Dragon Stompy from my experience).
Lands:
Mountain 10
City of Traitors 4
Ancients Tomb 4
Screw:
Trinisphere 4
Chalice of the Void 4
Blood Moon 4
Beats: Phyrexian Revoker 4
Magus of the Moon 4
Acceleration:
Chrome Mox 4
Beats: Priest of Urabrask 4
Simian Spirit Guide 4
Main Win Conditions:
Rakdos Pit Dragon 4
Gathan Raiders 4
Threat Protection:
Game Ender: Sword of War and Peace 2
Cheers,
Would Avalanche Rider be an option for DS?
His costs are sick, but he offers a beater and a good synergistic disruption, especiaaly if we can hit a basic
Avalanche Riders just cost too much... 4 mana, and 4 more mana, to keep it alive = 8 Mana for a lousy effect... nah, thank you
There is Goblin Settler, but... meh
Aight... I took my list from the last place and replaced 4 Shatterskull and 1 Slogger for 4 Forgemaster and 1 Blightsteel Colossus. My feelings about this are... dunno. While I like doing the Blightsteel thing, I hate it when I draw it, and I hate it that Forgemaster costs 5.
Well I think I go back to 3 Sloggers, and 3 Moltensteels [or 4 of any of them], and try to find the best for the remainign 3-4 Slots... Shatterskull is meh, but 2 Koth and 1 Batterskull for example doesn't look that good, either.
Merfolk : a combination of pyrokinesis, volcanic fallout and combust. Although kinesis is most damaging, VcF and combust i think are best bc of instant uncounterable removal. merfolk tends to attack when they think they have the advantage, so u can get a lot of 2-1 on block. Most importantly, combust is the easiest way to get around kira and a coralhelm that's gotten too big.Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopusman
Control : depends.
thopter control -> null rod. takes out all threats but planeswalkers (usually).
jace/stoneforge mystic -> revoker and chalice@1 is important. volcanic fallout too.
elspeth/moat -> anarchy
intuition/loam/ruins -> tormods crypt, null rod
Dedge : a combination of volcanic fallout/firespout, tormod's crypt, and phyrexian metamorph. I feel kazuul is no longer insta-win against dredge bc many play elesh norn. the 4/4 zombies get to be too much after a while. metamorph is also needed for iona.
Affinity/Meandeck MUD : If you can get your hands on null rods, these are best. 2-3 should do. t1 null rod is 80% insta-win. should run 1-2 shattering spree though, and pyokinesis is good against affinity.