Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
I've never been so disgusted and upset by the printing of a card in my thirteen years of playing this game.
I feel that the card is essentially causing a sort of disruptive evolution of the format, and with its divergence, non-blue aggro will be pushed out, replacing it with nemesis aggro and combo on the other side. Our once diverse legacy metagame will become somewhat stagnant. Who can voltron their nemesis and/or burn down their opponents life-total the most before dropping nemesis...or who can play show and tell/ tendrils?
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luckme10
Now for some more Q&A from Maro:
Rosewater: "I talked to the card’s designed, Mark Gottlieb. He says he designed the card for Commander. Did development possibly push its numbers for Eternal formats? I don’t know but maybe.
Was he designed for Eternal formats? No."
mazerin asked: Was True-Name Nemesis created for Leacy, because it is really bad in multiplayer commander but really amazing in Legacy?
Rosewater:
It was created for Commander and then costed with Legacy in mind.
(http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post...-because-it-is)
nicponim asked: Does True Name Nemesis violate/irritate color pie?
Blue is allowed protection from non-color things. I think protection from a player is a bit pushed so it stretches the color pie (and is not something blue should do very often) but I don’t think it’s a violation.
(http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post...tate-color-pie)
If MaRo ever leaves WOTC, he'll have a future in politics. So slippery with his words.
Edit: Also, this is BS for WOTC to be creating cards with Eternal in mind if they don't actually test cards for Eternal formats.
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joretapo
I might be a bit cynical but maro does not flat out lie, i do not see any future in politics for him :)
Remember MaRo's set comments from basically any set in the past, say, three years?
"A card that is a callback to Darksteel, but kills in one turn."
"A 5/5 for :g::g: that can double its power for :g::g:."
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
I have this inner conspiracy theorist that I try to ignore, but every once in a while it comes out and thinks things like, "You know, the best way to drive down attendance and interest in Eternal is to turn Blue from 'the best color' to 'the only color'."
As much as I conceptually hate the card for not being White, I still would like to see a few more results before I make up my mind about whether or not it's fundamentally good or bad.
In entirely unrelated news, how awesome does Blouses look right now, am I right?
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheKingslayer
I've never been so disgusted and upset by the printing of a card in my thirteen years of playing this game.
I feel that the card is essentially causing a sort of disruptive evolution of the format, and with its divergence, non-blue aggro will be pushed out, replacing it with nemesis aggro and combo on the other side. Our once diverse legacy metagame will become somewhat stagnant. Who can voltron their nemesis and/or burn down their opponents life-total the most before dropping nemesis...or who can play show and tell/ tendrils?
What non-blue aggro was a tier 1 deck before TNN was printed? Elves? Goblins? I guess they are affected by residual SB hate like golgari charm and zealous persecution, but is TNN really pushing them out?
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Star|Scream
This is something that people don't quite seem to get. Nobody had a problem when RUG used Natural Order to get a 10/10 out. Instead of a 10/10 for 4 it's just a 3/1 for 3. I really don't see what the big deal is? It's an unfair card that easily goes into fair decks. What's wrong with that?
green is a joke, TNN stays in color with heavy control and pitches to FoW if drawn in multiples..
no terms to compare
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
green is a joke, TNN stays in color with heavy control and pitches to FoW if drawn in multiples..
no terms to compare
The point remains that Legacy is full of broken things that are hard to deal with, so why is the sky falling?
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
it's not falling at all. but this drives directly to a more combo-ish meta for next season.
also, I don't think they will ever ban TNN.. Batterskull is even better, often (it attacks AND blocks, it avoids AD and Lifelink)..
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
it's not falling at all. but this drives directly to a more combo-ish meta for next season.
.
But on the combo threads they are saying TNN is causing them grief because all the sideboard cards that are being used against TNN that are also good against combo: Charm, persecution, blasts, etc.
Don't you think this is time for Control to shine?
And if control takes foot, wouldn't super-fast aggro be able to overtake them?
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
Yeah and most combo players can't win through bullshit permanents either.
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Esper3k
Btw, the sky is falling.
It's not that TNN necessarily breaks the format.
It's just that it makes Legacy MUCH less fun and diverse than it has been or could be.
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MGB
It's not that TNN necessarily breaks the format.
It's just that it makes Legacy MUCH less fun and diverse than it has been or could be.
Maybe by your personal definition of "fun".
Diversity is something that can be debated. The Legacy metagame has always shifted with decks moving up and down in popularity from week to week. Just look at the Day 2 metagame breakdown of GP DC - the most prevalent deck was RUG with only 16.6% (39 / 235) of the field. That's lower than when Merfolk was all over the format.
Out of the Top 9-16 decklists, we have 7 total copies of TNN.
Out of the Top 8, we have another 8 copies of it.
So out of the Top 16, we have a total of 15 TNN out of a possible 64 slots for it.
Man, TNN sure is all over the place and stifling the format!
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Esper3k
Maybe by your personal definition of "fun".
Diversity is something that can be debated. The Legacy metagame has always shifted with decks moving up and down in popularity from week to week. Just look at the Day 2 metagame breakdown of GP DC - the most prevalent deck was RUG with only 16.6% (39 / 235) of the field. That's lower than when Merfolk was all over the format.
Out of the Top 9-16 decklists, we have 7 total copies of TNN.
Out of the Top 8, we have another 8 copies of it.
So out of the Top 16, we have a total of 15 TNN out of a possible 64 slots for it.
Man, TNN sure is all over the place and stifling the format!
I'm talking about diversity as it relates to the rest of the field.
TNN provides an auto-win button vs. other aggro non-TNN decks for any deck that includes it. The use of TNN pushes out viable tier 2 aggro archetypes from competition and forces people to play TNN-based aggro decks or move to combo.
Looking at the top16 of the latest GP is of course going to provide a skewed perspective of TNN's prevalance. But even at that, it saturated the top tables and provided a non-interactive element to games that would otherwise be more interactive had TNN not been an option.
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
Doesn't really make the format less diverse IMO. If you look at the decks that did well at BoM and GPDC, there's nothing new there, just existing tier 1/1.5 decks finding slots for a new threat. Long-term I think it will have a lasting impact on the types of creature-hate that's commonly played, which might have an impact on the creatures commonly played, but I think you'll just see the current meta shift a bit, rather than change altogether. I also don't think combo is really going anywhere because of this guy. It may cause some significant splash hate for Elves, but AdNaus decks will just go back to favoring Tendrils over EtW.
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Richard Cheese
Doesn't really make the format less diverse IMO. If you look at the decks that did well at BoM and GPDC, there's nothing new there, just existing tier 1/1.5 decks finding slots for a new threat. Long-term I think it will have a lasting impact on the types of creature-hate that's commonly played, which might have an impact on the creatures commonly played, but I think you'll just see the current meta shift a bit, rather than change altogether. I also don't think combo is really going anywhere because of this guy. It may cause some significant splash hate for Elves, but AdNaus decks will just go back to favoring Tendrils over EtW.
The problem is whereas before, you could actually play different kinds of tier 2 aggro decks and have success if you were a good player and metagame appropriately....
when TNN is played by the tier 1 decks it makes your options basically: play TNN decks or play combo. You can't competitively play anything tier 2 any more, especially not any kind of tier 2 aggro.
AND within games played by TNN decks, it removes interaction from the game. The only thing you can do in TNN battles is to hope that you play your TNN first, or hope that some obscure sideboarded hate card pops up in game 2 / game 3. Not very much fun. If you watched the video of Owen Turtenwald's matches at the GP, you'd see that. Kai Budde even commented on how un-interactive and un-interesting TNN is.
In alot of ways, TNN is like a weak Oath. It forces you to play on the stack to interact, or it forces you to race. It removes any interaction from the combat phase from the game.
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MGB
The problem is whereas before, you could actually play different kinds of tier 2 aggro decks and have success if you were a good player and metagame appropriately....
when TNN is played by the tier 1 decks it makes your options basically: play TNN decks or play combo. You can't competitively play anything tier 2 any more, especially not any kind of tier 2 aggro.
AND within games played by TNN decks, it removes interaction from the game. The only thing you can do in TNN battles is to hope that you play your TNN first, or hope that some obscure sideboarded hate card pops up in game 2 / game 3. Not very much fun. If you watched the video of Owen Turtenwald's matches at the GP, you'd see that. Kai Budde even commented on how un-interactive and un-interesting TNN is.
In alot of ways, TNN is like a weak Oath. It forces you to play on the stack to interact, or it forces you to race. It removes any interaction from the combat phase from the game.
I'm not sure which Tier 2 decks are really getting hurt, or how badly. They were already tier 2 for a reason right? Don't get me wrong, I don't really like the card. I totally agree that it's a stupid card and a poor design, but I just don't think the whole format is going to implode on itself at this point.
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Star|Scream
What non-blue aggro was a tier 1 deck before TNN was printed? Elves? Goblins? I guess they are affected by residual SB hate like golgari charm and zealous persecution, but is TNN really pushing them out?
Goblins was tier 1 for longer than any deck except Rug tempo. Goblins even came in second at GP Flash.
Zoo and RG Survival also. It's a pretty short list mostly due to the fact that for a long time there was really no reason to play an aggro deck that wasn't Goblins.
Re: [SCD] True-Name Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Richard Cheese
I'm not sure which Tier 2 decks are really getting hurt, or how badly. They were already tier 2 for a reason right? Don't get me wrong, I don't really like the card. I totally agree that it's a stupid card and a poor design, but I just don't think the whole format is going to implode on itself at this point.
Agreed. I hate the card, didn't think it could get worse than Geist of Saint Traft, yet here we are.
But as bad and annoying as TNN is, it's still not as annoying when Mental Misstep was around. Or when Survival was freaking everywhere. So we better get used to True-Name Nemesis.
Wondering, do you think they will print anything (in addition to Toxic Deluge) as an "answer" to True-Name? Or since only Legacy is affected do you think they won't bother?
