[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

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Originally Posted by Qweerios

The similar list I tested played 2 Explorers, 2 DRS, and 4 GSZ with the Rec Sage in the SB and a Kruphix in the main instead.

-18 is the minimal functional blue count for FoW. Yes, it is enough.

-When life becomes an issue, you hardcast the probe. We arent playing a tempo deck. Therefore our hands aren't packed with CMC 1 cards that maximize the use of each of our lands. You will always find 2 life or 1 mana to squeeze the additional copies in the first few turns without having to sacrifice anything. I played 4 Probes in BUG Fit 1-2 years back they are amazing. They were also focal at enabling FoW postboard.

-It doesn't matter if it doesn't happen all the time.. By that logic, having an Explorer and a Therapy in your hand at the same time happens, but not often enough. While that is true, you have to evaluate the synergy and individual worth of the cards. The main difference between Explorer and Probe however, is that Probe isn't dead on its own, making it better in every instances.

-Probe isn't about digging, its about having a higher blue count and seeing your opponent's hand for free. You don't use Probe as a tutor for Therapy, it is simply a damn good blue card, and an even better one with Therapy.

-DTT isn't better than TC. Unlike nearly every other deck, we actually want to draw into lands because we can use up to 7 lands in play (GSZ@6). The turn you draw the card is the turn you want to play it, and drawing 3 cards for 1 less mana is actually relevant. Unless your deck is filled with bad situational cards (AKA: Lands, Legendary permanents, cards that do nothing for specific matchups, cards that do nothing in multiples), TC beats DTT every time.

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1) Ok seems legit. here is an old article with a player's experience & "maths" included.

http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...-force-of-will

-According to the writer -> 15 seems to be the bare minimum to play FOW. So >=15 , feel free to use the number that fits you.


2) While I could agree with some of your logic, I think you don't get my point. I'm comparing Probe with Ponder to know which one is better in terms of fulfilling a deck's strategy: ramping to go over the top.

And even if you are not "digging" with Probe, in a certain sense, you are playing them as a 4-of which, per definition, increases by 0,x % your odds to see every other cards in your deck, including the ones you really want to see (explorer + CT):

a) Paying 1 for just drawing 1 is bad when you could have "ponder" instead. The first probe is very strong. Each other iteration is average (you need to know opponent's hand) to very bad (you pay 1/2 life to draw 1). Ponder is never strong as a Probe could be in certain circumstances, but Ponder will never be bad.

b) If I have to evaluate synergy & individual worth of a card, here. Ponder > Probe, if your goal is to setup a CT + Explorer. And yes that is my main goal.

c) We are no combo/tempo deck, here. We are not pro-active but re-actif. We are a control archetype. Probe is better for proactive decks.

d) DTT>TC for reactive decks:
- 2 chosen cards > 3 unknown when you are looking for answers.
- DTT is instant and can be played (EOOT) without losing tempo at the constraint of double blue. Actually, by playing TC you can lose some crucial tempo.

I think we can agree to disagree on this. I'm fine, until you or me change his mind :cool:

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Originally Posted by Jain_Mor

Ok incoming list with advice request!
Still constantly testing ideas, and have a local tournament tomorrow!
With the decrease in wastelands, having excess mana and equipment, I decided to test some man lands >:) At the moment I have 1 of each...
Wondering if you think one is obviously better, or that they are all terrible and I shouldn't bother D:

Other than that, Liliana is back, I realised I wanted her against so many decks, that putting her main freed up some sideboard slots.

4 Verd Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh flats
2 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Bayou
1 Savanah
1 Scrubland
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volraths Stronghold
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Treetop village
1 Mishra's Factory
23

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Greensun's Zenith
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Veteran Explorer
1 Scooze
1 Goyf
1 Teeg
1 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda
4 SFM
1 Jitte
1 Sword of F&I
1 Batterskull

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Toxic Deluge
2 Liliana
2 Sylvan Library
61

3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Sprit of the Labyrinth
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

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I'm still not sure that Lili is what i want... often she is just one time removal spell.. in this way, +Swords to P. is simply better. And in 90% of cases you dont have card to discard to her.
btw you run 0xSwords to P. ?

1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Treetop village
1 Mishra's Factory
without Pernicious deed play this? why?

Btw what about Enlightened Tutor in sideboard? You are plaing 2x canoist, 2x pithing needle, 2x spirit of the labyrint, pernicious deed... tutor can help you get silver bullets. What do you think?

// Did you tested Lingering souls? It looks like good choice... 2 or 4 1/1 flyers are good defense or decent clock.. and bodies for ours equipments

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Originally Posted by Ralf

1) Ok seems legit. here is an old article with a player's experience & "maths" included.

http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...-force-of-will

-According to the writer -> 15 seems to be the bare minimum to play FOW. So >=15 , feel free to use the number that fits you.


2) While I could agree with some of your logic, I think you don't get my point. I'm comparing Probe with Ponder to know which one is better in terms of fulfilling a deck's strategy: ramping to go over the top.

And even if you are not "digging" with Probe, in a certain sense, you are playing them as a 4-of which, per definition, increases by 0,x % your odds to see every other cards in your deck, including the ones you really want to see (explorer + CT):

a) Paying 1 for just drawing 1 is bad when you could have "ponder" instead. The first probe is very strong. Each other iteration is average (you need to know opponent's hand) to very bad (you pay 1/2 life to draw 1). Ponder is never strong as a Probe could be in certain circumstances, but Ponder will never be bad.

b) If I have to evaluate synergy & individual worth of a card, here. Ponder > Probe, if your goal is to setup a CT + Explorer. And yes that is my main goal.

c) We are no combo/tempo deck, here. We are not pro-active but re-actif. We are a control archetype. Probe is better for proactive decks.

d) DTT>TC for reactive decks:
- 2 chosen cards > 3 unknown when you are looking for answers.
- DTT is instant and can be played (EOOT) without losing tempo at the constraint of double blue. Actually, by playing TC you can lose some crucial tempo.

I think we can agree to disagree on this. I'm fine, until you or me change his mind :cool:

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I fully agree with the rest of your post, but here's some math on the number of blue cards in your deck (fow included) and the amount of times a FoW in your opening hand will be 'live:'

15 0.843332274
16 0.864696055
17 0.883575675
18 0.900207721
19 0.914811469
20 0.927589749
21 0.938729788
22 0.948404032

(My math is a little off from Caleb's, but he didn't show how he got his answer so I can't compare). Anyway, is a 15% chance of having a dead force because of deck construction choices ok with you? Over a long tournament, that will matter. You can run 15, but you'll have much greater consistency with 22, and I think BUG Nic Fit has enough flexibility that you don't need to run an underpowered Force if you don't want to.

Seems like there are two versions of BUG-fit, base green and base blue. They're both probably valid but I'm not sure that what works for one will work for the other and vise-versa. GSZ would suck in my deck, for example.

Hi there,

I'm gonna participate in a relatively big tournament in December, and though I feel uneasy going into an unknown meta without countermagic, UR Delver doesn't seem to suit me. I will take my trusty Punishing Fit, and HoneyT's success encouraged me even more. However, my gut and my experience tell me that losing to a random combo deck with PFit is very real. I've seen them going off turn-2 too often. Painter, ANT and others are really hard to beat. I've asked for advice here before and the help was invaluable. So, I'll post here my list first:

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sarkhan the Mad
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Acidic Slime
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Mountain
2 Forest
2 Swamp

I'm mostly fine with this mainboard, though there might be something I missed, like an Obstinate Baloth in place of 1 Deathrite Shaman. It's the sideboard that puzzles me. I have some cards that I would like to see there:

2 Blood Moon - I tried this out when I was afraid of Maverick getting Marit Lage on board, but the card is a beating against so many decks. If my opponent abuses some lands or his manabase is too greedy, this card shines. Definitely in.
2 Slaughter Games - rips the wincons out of Miracles or any combo opponent that has been too slow. Probably in.
1 Krosan Grip, 1 Ancient Grudge - when Reclamation Sage just isn't enough. Probably in.
3 Red Elemental Blast - there's never enough blue hate. I might consider a 2/1 split with Choke, though. Definitely in.
2 Elephant Grass - slows down aggressive decks, stops Griselbrand, Batterskull token, Marit Lage, makes Sneak Attack worse. Not sure if I need those, but they saved my life a few times. Probably out.
2 Thoughtseize - more discard where it is necessary. Definitely in.
2 Golgari Charm - random enchantment hate, TNN and Pyromancer tokens get wrecked, too. Probably in.
1 Dryad Militant - hoses Treasure Cruise, reanimator's Dread Return. Probably out.

Maybe I should pay more attention to combo matchups, and that's where I need help the most. Pithing Needle, Null Rod - what else can I add to try to improve those? I've also thought of Chains of Mephistopheles since it ruins their cantrips, but I'm not sure if I'll manage to get hold of the card.

Any opinions on a third equipment in the current meta for abzan fit? I am playing a sofi and bskull right now but after triming my curve and dropping some bombs to play the playset of seige rhino I cant decide between jitte sols and soff. They all have their merits and im leaning towarda jitte for the versitility but if someone is hellbent another is better id like to hear it

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Originally Posted by uncletiggy

Any opinions on a third equipment in the current meta for abzan fit? I am playing a sofi and bskull right now but after triming my curve and dropping some bombs to play the playset of seige rhino I cant decide between jitte sols and soff. They all have their merits and im leaning towarda jitte for the versitility but if someone is hellbent another is better id like to hear it

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I'd play Jitte before SoFaI, so hope that helps :P

I have created a monstrosity.

3 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Deathrite Shaman

3 Lingering Souls
1 Voice of Resurgence

2 Sylvan Library

1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Council's Judgment
1 Abzan Charm
1 Reclamation Sage

3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Siege Rhino
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sun Titan
1 Baneslayer Angel

3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Diabolic Intent
3 Living Wish

2 Gaea's Cradle
2 Bayou
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp

SB: 1 Orzhov Pontiff
SB: 1 Gaea's Cradle
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Kitchen Finks
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Baneslayer Angel
SB: 1 Phyrexian Tower
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Spirit of the Labyrinth

I wondered if I could create a nic fit deck using gaea's cradle to good effect. The idea is to use lingering souls and a high creature count to turn on gaea's cradle as an additional accelerant (usually for 2-3). The good thing about this is that lingering souls both powers gaea's cradle, giving you more mana, and gives you more things to do with your mana due to the flashback. Living wish gives consistent access to gaea's cradle as well as other stuff that's nice to have. I haven't tested it except goldfishing but it seems like it can develop powerful board states quickly, often killing by turn 6 unobstructed (siege rhino helps a lot with that). It seems like it could outgrind most fair decks pretty well. I probably have enough creatures to sac to diabolic intent. Voice of resurgence might be win-more, might be good, idk.

Another possible direction is to add more mana dorks and increase the curve, making the deck more explosive. I might even be able to add in a craterhoof in the main or side. Let me know what you guys think.

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Originally Posted by pfiremc13

I have created a monstrosity.

I wondered if I could create a nic fit deck using gaea's cradle to good effect. The idea is to use lingering souls and a high creature count to turn on gaea's cradle as an additional accelerant (usually for 2-3). The good thing about this is that lingering souls both powers gaea's cradle, giving you more mana, and gives you more things to do with your mana due to the flashback. Living wish gives consistent access to gaea's cradle as well as other stuff that's nice to have. I haven't tested it except goldfishing but it seems like it can develop powerful board states quickly, often killing by turn 6 unobstructed (siege rhino helps a lot with that). It seems like it could outgrind most fair decks pretty well. I probably have enough creatures to sac to diabolic intent. Voice of resurgence might be win-more, might be good, idk.

Another possible direction is to add more mana dorks and increase the curve, making the deck more explosive. I might even be able to add in a craterhoof in the main or side. Let me know what you guys think.

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Hello,
In my opinion: this is Nic fit, not elves ...
i play with idea of using gaeas cradle too.. but nic fit strategy is survive start and kill opponend with big beasts latter..
in your deck there is nothing to help you survive- just 3 expensive removal spells, no sweaper...
Sweapers are really important, but kill your own small guys, which make gaeas cradle useless.

Can anyone give me a good explanation of why 2 Vet/4 Deathrite is the right numbers? I wanna play some Nic Fit soon and wanna run the right stuff. For reference I'm going to play some BUG list with Titania.

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Originally Posted by Nargoron

Hello,
In my opinion: this is Nic fit, not elves ...
i play with idea of using gaeas cradle too.. but nic fit strategy is survive start and kill opponend with big beasts latter..
in your deck there is nothing to help you survive- just 3 expensive removal spells, no sweaper...
Sweapers are really important, but kill your own small guys, which make gaeas cradle useless.

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You are correct in that my list is less of a control list that traditional nic fit. However, that is not necessarily a bad thing. It aims to beat creature decks not by eliminating their board position but by developing its own. Yes, it has a different game plan than nic fit. However, that doesn't mean the gameplan is flawed.

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Originally Posted by pfiremc13

You are correct in that my list is less of a control list that traditional nic fit. However, that is not necessarily a bad thing. It aims to beat creature decks not by eliminating their board position but by developing its own. Yes, it has a different game plan than nic fit. However, that doesn't mean the gameplan is flawed.

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Yeah but you might as well take this list over to the junk forum because at this point your list is modifying the way a nic fit deck should function.

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Originally Posted by bryanzoll

Yeah but you might as well take this list over to the junk forum because at this point your list is modifying the way a nic fit deck should function.

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I disagree that the fact that it has a different gameplan from most other nic fit decks makes it not nic fit. The combo version of scapewish, for example, has a significantly different gameplan that traditional nic fit but still belongs in this thread. My deck is a ramp creature deck that uses therapy + explorer, that makes it nic fit imo.

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Originally Posted by pfiremc13

I have created a monstrosity.

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I will give my humble and faulty opinions below. I'm not saying it's better, but it's how I would start playtesting the deck and the reasoning I put behind.

With that said, the deck you posted certainly looks interesting. I may have to get me some cradles..

...

First a comment on the strategy of the deck, or how I interpret it. Life gain should be great right now, with the current meta. And Sylvan turns all that into card advantage vs slower decks. Sylvan is a beast. Souls + equipment is great. Both defensively and offensively. So we have two main themes of the deck that are both offensive and defensive and that synergize well. These strike me as what should be the main focuses of the deck. Or at least the ones I would try to build on. These two both discourage using Deed, and removing Deed allows for Cradle.

In my mind there should be no need to go higher in the mana curve than Sigarda and Batterskull. Both are very hard to remove and devastating together. Both can be tutored for. If you don't have a Batterskull equipped on a Sigarda that is what you should be using your mana for, not Baneslayer or Sun Titan. All flex slots should be GSZ and Stoneforge Mystic, not suboptimal offensive alternatives. The equipments and bullets provide plenty of cheaper alternatives that can be fetched with said tutors if mana is an issue. But that's just my very personal opinion.

I would try:
- Voice of Resurgence, Sun Titan, Baneslayer Angel
+ Sword of L&S, Sylvan Library, Dryad Arbor

With the arbor that's 23 lands, a bit high, but both Cradle and Arbor can occasionally be useless. Perhaps appropriate to try a utility land, plenty of colorless cards to be played. And actually the mana hungry utilily lands provide a good mana sink once the Cradles live up to expectations.

The removal suite seems a bit inefficient and there is not a single board wipe. At least some should be in the board. Also Living Wish is a flexible but unfortunately slightly inefficient card. I like it but I think an effective removal suite is more important before we can start playing flexible things.

Updating removal suite:
- (2) Council's Judgment, Abzan Charm
+ (3) Abrupt Decay

And replacing the Living Wishes
- (3) Living Wish, Diabolic Intent
+ GSZ, (2) Swords to Plowshares, Liliana of the Veil

I'd want 4 GSZ for consistency, anti-combo bullets, artifact-removal, lifegain and getting creatures online turn 1-2 to make Cradle useful and build explosive starts (that would be the t1 arbor). Considering that some popular decks play 4 bolts + 4 swords I think the 4th GSZ can be important in getting a creature into play so that Cradle doesn't become a dead land. No need for Intent really.

I added the Liliana to have something besides Gaddock Teeg and Cabal Therapy that is relevant vs combo game 1 (and still good vs other decks). I'd like to see one more copy, maybe for one of the extra lands.

Some cards I would like to see in the sideboard:
1 Abrupt Decay (vs delver decks)
3+ Thoughtseize (vs combo)
2+ Liliana of the Veil (vs combo, control)
1 Qasali Priemage/Reclamation Sage (extra GSZ-able artifact removal)
X Zealous Persecution (vs anything with small creatures, good w souls)
X Krosan Grip / Council's Judgment
X Pithing Needle (Marit Lage, Wasteland, Sensei's Divining Top - yes we can! in this version)

[edit: sorry for the edit, rearranging a few sections]

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Originally Posted by pettdan

In my mind there should be no need to go higher in the mana curve than Sigarda and Batterskull. Both are very hard to remove and devastating together. Both can be tutored for. If you don't have a Batterskull equipped on a Sigarda that is what you should be using your mana for, not Baneslayer or Sun Titan. All flex slots should be GSZ and Stoneforge Mystic, not suboptimal offensive alternatives. The equipments and bullets provide plenty of cheaper alternatives that can be fetched with said tutors if mana is an issue. But that's just my very personal opinion.

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I disagree. Sun titan is a backup wincon -- council's judgment, baleful strix, etc are things. Some game your opponent will wipe your board and you need more high-cost threats to get there. It also enables very explosive cradle turns. Baneslayer can get moved to the board though.

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I would try:
- Voice of Resurgence, Sun Titan, Baneslayer Angel
+ Sword of L&S, Sylvan Library, Dryad Arbor

With the arbor that's 23 lands, a bit high, but both Cradle and Arbor can occasionally be useless. Perhaps appropriate to try a utility land, plenty of colorless cards to be played. And actually the mana hungry utilily lands provide a good mana sink once the Cradles live up to expectations.

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Instead of sun titan I can cut another land for an arbor. I worry about cutting creatures, though, since they are really important here. I'll see if I can find room for more elsewhere. I'm not sure about the SoLaS but I'll try it.

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Living Wish is a flexible but unfortunately slightly inefficient card. I like it but I think an effective removal suite is more important before we can start playing flexible things.

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Let's see where living wish is good.

Tempo -- not good, too slow and gets you behind.
Midrange -- good (depending on the list & board state, you can get rec sage, bsa, kitchen finks, phyrexian tower)
Control -- good (usually gets thrun or maybe tower)
Combo -- useful game 1, but often too slow. postboard you just wish (ha) you had more hate in your board instead of wish targets.

Verdict: This deck should already beat midrange and can compensate for control with additional sideboard cards. Its combo matchup needs work. Therefore, living wish gets cut.

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Updating removal suite:
- (2) Council's Judgment, Abzan Charm
+ (3) Abrupt Decay

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Agree

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And replacing the Living Wishes
- (3) Living Wish, Diabolic Intent
+ GSZ, (2) Swords to Plowshares, Liliana of the Veil

I'd want 4 GSZ for consistency, anti-combo bullets, artifact-removal, lifegain and getting creatures online turn 1-2 to make Cradle useful and build explosive starts (that would be the t1 arbor). Considering that some popular decks play 4 bolts + 4 swords I think the 4th GSZ can be important in getting a creature into play so that Cradle doesn't become a dead land. No need for Intent really.

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I like intent here for being versatile and generally good. I feel like kitchen finks and the 4th decay are better than swords because kitchen finks is a dude and decay is more versatile.

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I added the Liliana to have something besides Gaddock Teeg and Cabal Therapy that is relevant vs combo game 1 (and still good vs other decks). I'd like to see one more copy, maybe for one of the extra lands.

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I don't like maindeck lili very much. I don't think it's worth trying to beat combo in g1 with this deck; I'll just focus on it post-side. (that means moving the teeg to the board)

For what will replace teeg, I think I'll go back to the land idea. Gavony township is very useful I think due to how many creatures this deck can have on the field on the field.

That brings the changes to:
-1 Voice of Resurgence
-1 Baneslayer Angel
-2 Council's Judgment
-1 Abzan Charm
-3 Living Wish
-1 Gaddock Teeg
-1 Savannah
+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Dryad Arbor
+1 Sword of Light and Shadow
+4 Abrupt Decay
+1 Green Sun's Zenith
+1 Kitchen Finks
+1 Gavony Township

Additional manabase tweak for decay:
-1 Savannah
+1 Scrubland

For the sideboard:
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Zealous Persecution
3 Thoughtseize
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Council's Judgment

Yes I need that much combo hate.

Thanks a lot for the very detailed reply, you hit on a lot of the things I was unsure of/didn't consider very much.

@Pfiremc13: (Not getting much sleep, might as well..)
You're most welcome, glad you appreciate it. I've been thinking of souls+cradle too but failed at making a deck. Here are some thoughts and motivations on specific issues.

Sword of L&S offers:
- 0.75 extra cards drawn per turn with Sylvan
- important lifegain vs burn/delver strategies
- infinite blocking of skull/marit/grizzle with a souls token
- chained artifact/ench removal with a qasali
- siege rhino becomes an unswordable 6/7 trampler
- getting deathrite and explorer back (tend to die)

Also I thought of another possible approach on the land theme:
- sun titan, finks, (1) cradle
+ (2) knight of the reliquary, Karakas
For cradle tutoring, cheap beast, an out to show and tell, sigarda/gaddock-protection, and for the occasional dryad or township/vault. Vault would actually fit with the lifegain theme and deathtouch is nice with souls.

I'll try a second liliana in place of the third explorer i think. Good with souls too.

Looking forward to some playtesting :)

I thought of kotr too, that's another thing to test. He seems somewhat lackluster though--there's not always a land you want to get, even if you can make room for all the utility lands, and there big beater isn't really necessary. The tutor for cradle is nice though.

Hello everyone,

I am a Punishing-Jund-Nic Fit player usually, but the Abzan version attracts me... here is my decklist. I am of course open to any suggestion :smile:

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 SWords to Plowshares

2 Pernicious Deed

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Reclamation Sage (or Qasali Pridemage)
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
2 Siege Rhino
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Veteran Explorer

4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Scrubland
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains

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Originally Posted by Zllig

Can anyone give me a good explanation of why 2 Vet/4 Deathrite is the right numbers? I wanna play some Nic Fit soon and wanna run the right stuff. For reference I'm going to play some BUG list with Titania.

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I don't think that is correct. I did a bunch of testing to find the answer to this and found that DRS just isn't great in a deck with Pernicious Deed. Run them in the board if you want, but just run 4 veteran explorers in the main. This is a veteran explorer deck and cutting them is dumb.

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Originally Posted by Cliq

I don't think that is correct. I did a bunch of testing to find the answer to this and found that DRS just isn't great in a deck with Pernicious Deed. Run them in the board if you want, but just run 4 veteran explorers in the main. This is a veteran explorer deck and cutting them is dumb.

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Although this would also depend on the version of Nic Fit you are running. Generally Jund and BUG colored Nic Fit variants run the full set of Vets and no DRS, where junk colored lists will run more DRS and less explorers.

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Originally Posted by bryanzoll

Although this would also depend on the version of Nic Fit you are running. Generally Jund and BUG colored Nic Fit variants run the full set of Vets and no DRS, where junk colored lists will run more DRS and less explorers.

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Well usually you are looking for synergy. If DRS > no or very few pernicious. If Vet > 3 Pernicious.

The more I play BUG Nic Fit, the more I feel the hard control route is what we are looking for. Closing games should rely on Jace and/or on a very powerful spell as the one miracle has accessed to.

I found it in the Black delve spell: Empty the Pits.

This is all what we need:
- a very big spell which can end a game in one swing akin entreat the angels.
- instant (EOOT)
- can be abused with lots of mana and huge graveyard (which is surprisingly easy to have)

21 Lands (9 fetchs 8 basics 4 duals)

2 Jace
2 ETP

4 AD
3 Pernicious
2 flexible slots (@cmc1) currently Funeral charm for being good at every stage of the game.

4 Veteran
3 Baleful
2 Glen Elendra
1 Thrun

4 BS
4 Ponder
4 FOW
4 CT

Sideboard is not ready yet. But it has been a very longtime since I had so much fun playing a BUG version of Nic Fit.

Every thing is tuned to:
- grow your graveyard while tanking.
- reset/keep clear the boardstate/rape your opponent hand
- Land your wincon with protection. Be it a FOW or a Glen Elendra

This is only the beginning.