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Quote:
Originally Posted by iostream
Nice too see so many different builds work well. I think afterall it is a matter of playstyles, Lejay run Thorn only at his Sideboard (as I do), Sunyveil is sucessful with Thorn and Lodestone(!) Main.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
We will see if any Version do well at the next SCG and I would like to see this deck as fast as possible as an established one. Speed it up guys :cool:
It's an interesting take, but I disagree with his opinion that the "standard choices" are just obviously wrong and find his dismissive attitude to be rather counterproductive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
For example, take Endless One, which he calls "ludicrous". I absolutely love casting it for X=2 off of Eye. I've won many games going turn 1 Mimic, Endless One, Endless One or some variation thereof because putting 4+ power on turn 1 split over 2+ bodies is hard for any deck to deal with if you have any kind of follow up play. It's just a great tempo play. At later stages of the game, the fact that all our fast mana pays for Endless One makes him reliably bigger than everything that any fair deck can present at every spot on the curve. Against unfair decks, you can set him at X=4 or 5 in the first few turns of the game and just clock them while you hold up Warping Wail or cast other spheres.
The basic difference is that Sunyvail wants to play more individually powerful cards like Lodestone Golem at the cost of making many hands clunky and susceptible to one-for-ones and land disruption. For instance, he will often be unable to cast his threats if he gets aggressively Wastelanded because he plays more expensive creatures compared to normal lists. This is not right or wrong, it's just different and a play style choice. On the other hand, when you play Endless One, Matter Reshaper, and Umezawa's Jitte, you don't play 13 maindeck sphere effects because your plan is to just out-tempo your opponent, not completely lock them out the game. The advantage is that you are never at any risk of locking yourself out, you are more resilient to cheap disruption, and one-for-one removal is generally bad against you. The disadvantage is that you don't really have inevitability and you have to work to close the game early on.
To illustrate, it's telling that he lists Delver as one of his deck's more challenging matchups, whereas in my testing, Delver has been highly favorable. This is because any Delver pilot would gladly pay two or three mana to Bolt a Lodestone Golem, whereas they would feel pretty bad using it on Matter Reshaper. In fact, they'd most likely feel bad about Bolting an Endless One, given that such a play will either be tempo negative even at 1 mana when Endless One is cast for X=2 off of Eye, or the Delver player will require a second card to actually remove the Endless One which generates a two-for-one for the Eldrazi pilot. More generally, versus tempo decks, when you have so many plays that you can make off of one or two lands, getting Wastelanded or Dazed 1-2 times early on does not break you. On the other hand, I suspect his deck has a much easier time against decks like Nic Fit or Four-Color Loam because you are at no risk of dying quickly in those matchups, they have no advantageous way of addressing Lodestone Golem, and his cards pack a much more effective late-game punch.
Went 3-1 during the modern FNM with a pile (RG Eldrazi-tron). Lost only to UW due to uw drawing faster hands + curving out perfectly on the play with turn 1 Endless turn 2 TKS turn 3 Smasher, poor mulligans on my side and just being too slow. Though I did beat infect which is a fast deck itself.
It seems like in modern it doesn't matter what you bring, as long as it has Eldrazis in it. My sideboard anti-eldrazi tech was Razarmane Masticore hoping to bolt displacers, mimic, skyspawners and endless ones and first striking Reality Smashers (and drowners if they dont have things to tap) (I could off-set the card disadvantage with lategame Kozilek) but it was TKS'd out of my hand. I also tried Batterskull and it did win me a few games, but never against Eldrazis. Like I said, it was a pile, but it still worked because crazy draws happened.
My most insane turn was Kozilek (countered) but drew six and played 2 Thought Knot Seers the same turn. That ended real quick, followed by Eye of Ugin activation into Reality Smasher for an attack with 2 reality smasher 2 TKS.
World Breaker again broke some worlds, with reach, the high toughness and the cast trigger each being highly relevant (being able to block Restoration Angel and exiling celestial colonnade).
I'm here playing the deck at BOM in Madrid.
Miracles decks are packing moat main deck and ruination and humility out from the sideboard
Moat and Humility sound like a job for World Breaker. :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by janluis1
I fail to see how Ruination is better than From the Ashes in Miracles. Probably they didn't get the memo yet.
Fear not barook, if there's a card that doesn't help them win the game, miracles will eventually find it given enough time. Price of Progress can't get hit by warping wail, but the fact that casting it might result in a win means miracles won't run it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
I ve just lost against shardless bug. Although I feel is a draw dependent matchup I feel is our 3 worse pairings among creature based decks
Ulamog when using list with Karakas. It is a control match up after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by janluis1
I have done top 32 at BOM Madrid, quite a few Eldrazi players here. One of them made top 8. I will post my list in a couple of days
I for one am running a list with seven wastes at the price of giving away wastelands and mishras in fear of blood moon and denial. With my build I would be very happy if my opponent played ashes instead of ruination.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Eager to see the list of Madrid top8er.
Don't you lose alot of raw power when you just run basics instead of utility lands?Quote:
Originally Posted by e.talpa
I could see it as way to improve the burn match-up. :wink:
Although running our own Ruination/From the Ashes in the board with the right support sounds hilarious.
Edit: On second thought, without having to jump through the hoops of running red, white has access to Armaggeddon, be it SB or otherwise. Not sure what match-ups it could improve that need improving and it would make the use of CoW mandatory. While Thorn/Golem with mana-denial sounds interesting, it would also make Armageddon ridiculously expensive. A less mana-intensive approach would be Conduit into Sundering Titan (bonus points for being a Golem like Lodestone for excess Cavern, being castable of Conduit for :6:, having devestating synergy with Displacer and being taxed by neither Lodestone (Conduit is, though) nor Thorn.) If you leave out Displacer, it's also a completely colorless approach. I guess that would require the additional use of Grim Monoliths to be reliable, for better or worse.
Edit #2: First, very rough list:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
2 flex slots (Karakas, Factory, Ghost Quarter, whatever you like)
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Conduit of Ruin
1 World Breaker
1 Sundering Titan
4 Mox Diamond
4 Grim Monolith
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Meanwhile in Philly, Eldrazi is the most played deck at day2 (actually, even to the sum of all delver decks), followed by lands and miracles.
Interestingly, 8 lands decks, 5 DNT decks and 7 miracle decks. I bet lands and DNT slaughtered many Eldrazi along the way to day 2.
3 Enchantress decks is also noteworthy.
Things like this happen when people forget their notion thieves and teferi's realms. A pretty miserable matchup for eldrazi I'd think; you'd need to cast ulamog 2x to get solitary confinement/elephant grass through the Sterling Groves.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
Enchantress is a very good meta choice. It's very nice that this deck gets some tournament results; as its usually just a fringe competitor at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
It seems like Dismember is the tech of choice to deal with the Eldrazi mirror, alongside Jitte and Endbringer.
That's good to know for the future.
Always remember what happens when one eldrazi player has equipment and moxen, and the other one has no artifacts with activated abilities and null rods. Dismember seems solid (but painful with tombs) and Endbringer is probably at least a 2x for maindeck's inevitability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Also remember When a man with a gun meets a man with a Winchester, the man with the gun is a dead man.
Meanwhile, a certain New and Developmental deck is in final at SCG Philadelphia Open :)
Gerry Thompson, 2nd:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Mox Diamond
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
Sideboard
2 Pithing Needle
2 Sphere of Resistance
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Dismember
3 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 All Is Dust
Harlan Firer, 8th:
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
2 Dismember
3 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Winter Orb
2 Endbringer
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Warping Wail
Steven Shervin, 9th:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Trinisphere
3 Duplicant
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Endbringer
1 Warping Wail
Brad Carpenter, 15th:
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
2 Dismember
3 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Winter Orb
2 Endbringer
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Warping Wail
Andrew Tenjum, 21st:
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
2 Dismember
3 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Winter Orb
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Dismember
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Spatial Contortion
Aaron Webster, 22nd:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
4 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Dismember
Sideboard
1 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Dismember
4 Warping Wail
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 All Is Dust
Greg Gentile, 26th:
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
3 Oblivion Sower
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Wastes
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Trinisphere
2 Dismember
3 Warping Wail
Sideboard
1 Crucible Of Worlds
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Trinisphere
2 Spellskite
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust
He ended up in 2nd, here's his brewQuote:
Originally Posted by talpa
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=99286
I'm still not sold on the Mox Diamonds but obviously he had great results with them.
From the top 8 profiles on scg:Quote:
Originally Posted by RhoxWarMonk
"Is the Legacy Eldrazi deck for real? How do you beat it?"
"Yes! If I built my deck well, you couldn't!"
Within a few days he will likely write or talk about what md and sb tweaks he would make. I will be keeping an eye out for his insight.