[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

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Originally Posted by pfiremc13

Some questions for arianrhod about thune fit:

-Have you ever been disappointed by the lack of gsz'able 4-drops?
-Describe a bit more what varolz has done for you.
-How useful has nether void been? (I think you talked about this before but I can't find where you did)
-What matchups is are the nevermores in your side for?
-Do you think I would be a good idea to have show and tell hate in the side? Has humility worked there in the past? Are there other matchups humility is good in?
-How do you beat omnitell (in general)?

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-) Yes, frequently, across multiple versions. The best one for Thune is probably Loxodon Hierarch, and that should tell you something. I mean, he's okay, but he's nowhere near on the same power level as a lot of the other creatures we run.

-) Varolz enables a couple things.
->) Varolz is a 0-cost sac outlet. The only other viable GSZable sac outlet is Starved Rusalka, which has a mana cost of G to activate. What this means is that you can assemble a boardstate of Varolz + Finks + Thune, and win on the spot (infinite life, infinite board p/t).
->) Varolz has combat stats and enables multiple lines of play, whereas Rusalka does not. In GBW, you usually need some sort of Green Sunnable sac outlet, and Varolz is way better than Rusalka for 1 more mana.
->) Varolz also lets you play "Protect the Queen" with Sigarda (or Thrun, but Sigarda is better). You can scavenge used up dorks onto her, and make her absolutely terrifying. A 5/5 hexproof flyer is good. An 8/8 hexproof flyer is lethal, even through annoyances like Batterskull. If you can go deep with Sigarda, then it's usually correct to do so. She'll win you most games by herself, especially as you bulk her up. Even if they somehow find a way to deal with her, realistically you shouldn't be expending more resources during this time, which means you'll have a grip for post-sweep to unleash. You're just recycling resources that you already used earlier in the game. It doesn't seem like paying 1G to give Sigarda a +1/+1 counter from a Sakura-Tribe/Sylvan Ranger/etc is worth it, I know -- but when you actually do it in a real-game situation, it's a lot more backbreaking than it sounds on paper.
->) Varolz can play "protect the varolz" against a lot of decks, like Esperblade for example. He has built-in Supreme Verdict protection, and can't die in most combats as long as you have things to regenerate him.

-) Nether Void is the stone nuts if you can afford one. Unlike Trinisphere (which is still a savage beating), Void adds on to the mana cost of any spell. So, if they want to Brainstorm, their Brainstorm now costs 3U. Cunning Wish costs 5U. True-Name costs 4UU (not that I recommend bringing it in vs True-Name decks). And so forth. Here's why it's better than Trinisphere despite costing more (monetarily and manawise)

->) Can't be Abrupt Decayed. This is HUGE, since most ANT and TES decks run Decays in their board to deal with problematic permanents.
->) Makes anti-hate cost more. Congratulations, TES, you can Chain of Vapor my Nether Void, for the low, low cost of 3U. Good luck with that.
->) Completely kills combo decks stone-dead. Dark Ritual makes negative mana. A Thresholded Cabal Ritual is only break-even. Sneak attack costs 7? Show and Tell costs 6? All of their cantrips and setup spells cost a million mana, too? They have to choose between Force of Will and Pondering? Sweet deal. In the case of Trinisphere, Show and Tell costs the same. Void is more flexible.
->) Useful against -any- combo deck. This is a problem that combo hate tends to have. It's good vs two or three decks, maybe, but shit vs two or three more. Void is all-purpose douchebaggery.

I can't actually recommend Nether Void highly enough.

-) Nevermores are slightly questionable. They're another "generalist" piece of hate that's good against literal anything, but they're in decay range, and there's probably better things they could (should) be. I remember the last time I played the deck I had a specific thought in mind for them, but now I can't even remember what it was. Nevermore is an okay card, but it suffers from not being a 2/2, and from costing 3.

-) Sneak and Show hate has worked before, including and especially Humility. Humility is TOTAL scorched-earth tactics, since we completely hate to see that card too -- but our deck is full of castable 1/1s, whereas their deck is full of uncastable 1/1s. It's a big difference. If you need to kold Sneak and Show, Humility is a good slot to invest in. Sneak is still vulnerable to most of our other hate, too, but sometimes Sneak needs that extra-special touch to really push it over the edge in our favor. Humility accomplishes that. It might be winnable, ish, without Humility -- but with Humility I would say the matchup is favored for us.

-) Omni is a gigantic slut. In Thune, you get to at least run hateful bears, though, which is one of the better ways of attacking the deck. Gaddock Teeg + a Nevermore on Show and Tell, for example, basically locks the deck out. Canonist is nuts against them, as is Nether Void. If they don't open with Leyline of Sanctity, you can Cranial Extraction them. All of that being said, though, Omni is probably the biggest chink in Thune's combo armor (at least, compared to universal shitfests like Belcher or TES godhands). You're going to have to get lucky here, realistically.

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Originally Posted by kavaki

I also requested access to the document.

So I was talking with one of my friends who asked if you could run this with 0 dual lands. I know he has fetches and Groves, he just doesnt have the ABU's. I told him that it may be possible, but I wanted to see here. Im not advocating budget, but its also something I have wondered. I know its stupid, but it has struck me as an interesting thought from time to time.

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It's possible. Throw a couple extra Kitchen Finks and/or another Thragtusk in his list, and it'll work out alright, at least until he starts winning enough store credit to get a few duals. Realistically you only need like 2 Bayou, 1 Taiga, and 1 Badlands to play Punishing -- anything more than that is more luxury than mandate, I think. I would consider 1 Bayou absolutely crucial, if he can possibly get it. t1 fetch Bayou into Therapy or Explorer is a very important line. You can safely fill with Overgrown Tombs for the rest of the "Bayous," I think, though.

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

Man, did anyone see Lotus Cobra and get hard thinking about it + Veteran Explorer shenanigans?

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Back about two years ago, it was in some of my very very first sketches of Nic Fit. It proved to be win-more, so I cut it, but I do wonder sometimes if there isn't like a Nic Fit version of 12post / Eldrazi Green that could be made with it. Cobra + Explorer gives you a metric shitfuck of mana.

Example, a realistic opener without Tower or multiple Vets:

t1 land, Therapy
t2 land, Cobra
t3 land, Explorer, flashback (tap 3 lands, 2 floating from landfall, then tap 2 more from Explorer lands) yields 7 mana on turn 3. Zenith for Primeval, use floating mana to play Top + spin Top? Eh? Eh? Eh?

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Originally Posted by MasterHerC

i am currently trying out a gaze of granite as i am still waiting for my toxic deluge to arrive (also have massacre in board, there is a lot of d'n't here as well as 2-3 deadguys)
seems pretty good even though the double black is kinda cloggy sometimes.
it feels like wishing for pernicious deed.

i'm not sure about reverent silence anymore. i can't remember a single game i wished for it so i am thinking about experimentally dropping it for the deluge.
maybe 2 "all-creatures-get-minus"-sweepers can do well, especially if u can cast one of it for free (oder 1 if a thalia is up).

i also received the suggestion to play a singleton living wish, a tabernacle and a bog ... sounded interesting but i don't think it will (nic)fit very well.
any1 having some experiences with this or something similar?

we have a legacy regional next sunday, but i'm still not sure if i can be in attendance, we'll see.




checked my shops, only availabe foil windswept heath is english nm for about ~128$, playset is around 500 but not a single german heath. ^_o

if there is a chance that we'll meet on a specific international tournament, i can check for some foil/german goodies for you and maybe bring them with me. :D

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I've thought about the whole "wish for a wish" bullshit before, but I just can't justify spending that much mana to get a utility land -- and the utility land isn't even necessarily that great for Scape. Tabernacle is much better in GBW versions, because those colors care more about the sac outlet / having more control in the matchup.

And that would be freaking sweet. I don't really fly, though, so it'd probably have to be like for the next legacy Grand Prix here or something similar. I'm terrified of flying :X 128 is still pretty good for a packfoil nm Heath, though -- they're like 150-160 over here last I checked.

Sorry for the noobish question, but can someone pierce cabal therapy with explorer effect on the stack? I think they can, but i'm not sure...

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Originally Posted by Nithkar

Sorry for the noobish question, but can someone pierce cabal therapy with explorer effect on the stack? I think they can, but i'm not sure...

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They can, in fact. It doesn't come up very often, but this is a thing that can happen to you.

I would like to add Consecrated Sphinx to the blue six-drops, it is absolute nuts once it hits the field and I have not lost many games after I drew some extra cards from it. Next Saturday I will have a local tournament again. I'm going to test a controlish BUGfit deck with a True-Name Nemesis as one-off, I'm curious how it will perform. Will keep you posted.

I don't play PodFit, but here are some creature ideas for you kiddies to knock around. My apologies if they've been covered and/or are lackluster:

1CMC
Doomed Traveler

2CMC
Abyssal Gatekeeper
Nest Invader

3CMC
Flickerwisp
Blade Splicer
Sin Collector

4CMC
Ranger of Eos
Solemn Simulacrum
Mindslicer (one of my favorite cards ever)

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Originally Posted by hymntotourcock

I don't play PodFit, but here are some creature ideas for you kiddies to knock around. My apologies if they've been covered and/or are lackluster:

1CMC
Doomed Traveler

2CMC
Abyssal Gatekeeper
Nest Invader

3CMC
Flickerwisp
Blade Splicer
Sin Collector

4CMC
Ranger of Eos
Solemn Simulacrum
Mindslicer (one of my favorite cards ever)

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Abyssal Gatekeeper is fuckin spicy. I like it.

Added Gatekeeper, Nest Invader, Flickerwisp, and Blade Splicer. Had the others already.

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Originally Posted by Fizzeler

I can help with this, but it depends heavily on what you want the pod deck to do, like a Glittering Wish Pod list is not going to be similar to Rec-Pod list or "combo" pod list despite all list being GWB

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Here's my BGw POD list... it has been working pretty well

Creatures [23]
CMC 1
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman

CMC 2
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze

CMC 3
2 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Bone Shredder

CMC 4
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Wickerbough Elder
2 Restoration Angel

CMC 5
1 Thragtusk
1 Acidic Slime
1 Shriekmaw

CMC 6
1 Grave Titan

Engine [8]
3 Birthing Pod
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Recurring Nightmare

Control [7]
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy

Artifacts [2]
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Lands [21]
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Swamp
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyraxian Tower

this is my sideboard for now, will test it at the next possible stop (maybe sunday)
scapewish, obviously (or of course? ... :D )

3x Carpet of Flowers
2x Red Elemental Blast
1x Slaughter Games
1x Scapeshift
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Reanimate
1x Innocent Blood
1x Thoughtseize
1x Pyroclasm
1x Massacre
1x Gaze of Granite
1x Toxic Deluge (if it will arrive in time), else 1x flexslot, but don't think Reverent Silence will fit in it this time.

i'm kinda excited if i will miss silence (as i never really missed it all the time)
have that strange feeling that having a bunch of those sweepers is really good in my local format, now that a bunch of nemesis-decks joined the scene to the already popular d'n'ts here.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

I've thought about the whole "wish for a wish" bullshit before, but I just can't justify spending that much mana to get a utility land -- and the utility land isn't even necessarily that great for Scape. Tabernacle is much better in GBW versions, because those colors care more about the sac outlet / having more control in the matchup.

And that would be freaking sweet. I don't really fly, though, so it'd probably have to be like for the next legacy Grand Prix here or something similar. I'm terrified of flying :X 128 is still pretty good for a packfoil nm Heath, though -- they're like 150-160 over here last I checked.

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ya, i think that it's a waste of space u need for better things.

oh i definitely plan to attend a us-gp at least once in a lifetime. time will ... show and tell ... when and where. :D
or maybe a longer holiday trip with some scg-visits. ^^
but i'll let you know when it is possible for me.

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Originally Posted by kavaki

I also requested access to the document.

So I was talking with one of my friends who asked if you could run this with 0 dual lands. I know he has fetches and Groves, he just doesnt have the ABU's. I told him that it may be possible, but I wanted to see here. Im not advocating budget, but its also something I have wondered. I know its stupid, but it has struck me as an interesting thought from time to time.

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i did it.
had only 2 taigas so i upped each basic land by 1 and filled with stomping grounds, blood crypts and overgrown tombs.
whoppa selfdestruct-style ... but it worked.
u are just turning some clocks down a turn if u need to shock but it's easier to pay 2 life than a difference of ~45 or more $ per dual.

Some more Pod candidates:

Meddling Mage
Peacekeeper
Triskellion (there is an obscure infinite combo with Reveillark, Phantasmal Image and Triskellion)
Yosei
Corpse Connoisseur (if you play Rector + Nightmare and want to pod directly from 4 to 6 or as a pseudo tutor)

p.s. @Arianrhod maybe enable comments in the gdoc, so we can leave suggestions there instead of polluting this thread.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Abyssal Gatekeeper is fuckin spicy. I like it.

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Heck yeah it is, that card's an old gem from when I played Pauper Pestilence :D

Here are some more neato Pod dudes:

2
Bloodghast

3
Necroplasm
Necrotic Sliver (ehh)
Phyrexian Rager
Geralf's Messenger

5
Phyrexian Delver
Karmic Guide

6
Duplicant
Kokusho

7
Hornet Queen

I don't mean to spam the board, but with all this talk of MB combo hate, I edited my PFit list which I plan to bring this to a local legacy event in about 2 weeks. I'd like to iron it out before then.
The main changes are adding 2 Slaughter Games to MB and Toxic Deluge to the SB. I figure it can act as a 4th Deed, and I've been considering adding a second. There is much combo going on at my lgs but not so much that I'm able to rule out rogue aggro decks. These Storm pricks often make me wish I was playing Scapeshift.
I have 61 cards MB, the 61st being Thoughtseize to supplement the combo-interference. 1 black mana shouldn't throw my curve enough to make a difference.

2 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Volrath's Stronghold

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Punishing Fire
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Slaughter Games

SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay

Edit: I forgot my friggin Carpets.

Arianrhod it seems you forgot Karmic Guide as a 5 drop, I tested it and ran it at the GP decent and can let you advance the board quickly

Also Voice Of Resurgence in 2, it was okay when I tried it good vs other fair decks

My current Junk list:
4 Marsh Flats
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Acidic Slime
2 Swamp
1 Sun Titan
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gavony Township
1 Karakas
2 Fauna Shaman
4 Birthing Pod
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Grave Titan
2 Eternal Witness
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Scrubland
2 Savannah
2 Restoration Angel
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Plains
1 Orzhov Pontiff
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Bayou
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Forest
1 Thragtusk

Sideboard
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Extirpate
4 Thoughtseize
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Angel of Despair
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Harmonic Sliver
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Garruk Relentless

In other news Township is insane

Grave Titan has been feeling very underwhelming compared to Sun Titan, I want to test another 6 Drop that isn't a titan and am between Yosei and Wurmcoil

So after playing a few games with this list here I came to some conclusions. Bear in mind that I love me some birthing pod decks. I played a lot of it in standard and would play kik pod in modern if I had the cards to do so.

I feel like this deck runs into a lot of the same issues most pod decks have, unless there is a resolved pod on the field it just becomes a mass of creatures that are kind of awkward to draw when drawn in the wrong situations. Part of me really wants to make this a 4 or 5 color deck and run things like Restoration Angel, Deceiver Exarch, and Zealous Conscripts. One of the things that I feel could be improved about this list is the ability to go up the chain in a single turn. I understand that adding another color or two means fixing the mana base with more duals which then makes our Veteran Explorers weaker. I might be an avenue to explore however. Possibly substituting some of the Deathrite Shamans with Noble Hierarchs or Birds of Paradise could be an path worth examining.

The other minor issue I had with the deck was the one of Abrupt Decay. I know its a strong card but it seems that it might be better suited as a fourth Brainstorm a third Pernicious Deed, or even possibly a fourth Birthing Pod for a better chance of getting it in the opener. Brainstorm is kind of insane in this deck due to the amount of shuffle effects that are available. The ability to put creatures back into the deck that you might have drawn and then pod into them is bonkers for lack of a better term.

These are just a few of my thoughts about this list in particular. I will say this though, the deck is super fun to play and I recommend picking it up and giving it a whirl.

[EDIT]: I also forgot to mention about the possible addition of Phyrexian Metamorph in either the Main or the side board.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

-) Yes, frequently, across multiple versions. The best one for Thune is probably Loxodon Hierarch, and that should tell you something. I mean, he's okay, but he's nowhere near on the same power level as a lot of the other creatures we run.

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Hmm, yeah. Testing nylea maybe?

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->) Varolz is a 0-cost sac outlet. The only other viable GSZable sac outlet is Starved Rusalka, which has a mana cost of G to activate. What this means is that you can assemble a boardstate of Varolz + Finks + Thune, and win on the spot (infinite life, infinite board p/t).

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I didn't notice that combo. However, a 3-card combo with 2 1-ofs and a 2-of is hard to assemble, even with 6 tutors.

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In GBW, you usually need some sort of Green Sunnable sac outlet

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I disagree. 6 sac outlets is generally enough, in addition to chump blocking vs. aggro. Varolz is 4 mana, which generally means you'll have to wait until turn 4 to sac explorer if you have just that and green sun. It's really not worth it. I'd much rather just gsz for dryad arbor if I really needed the ramp (which, by the way, has been awesome for me).

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->) Varolz also lets you play "Protect the Queen" with Sigarda (or Thrun, but Sigarda is better). You can scavenge used up dorks onto her, and make her absolutely terrifying. A 5/5 hexproof flyer is good. An 8/8 hexproof flyer is lethal, even through annoyances like Batterskull. If you can go deep with Sigarda, then it's usually correct to do so. She'll win you most games by herself, especially as you bulk her up. Even if they somehow find a way to deal with her, realistically you shouldn't be expending more resources during this time, which means you'll have a grip for post-sweep to unleash. You're just recycling resources that you already used earlier in the game. It doesn't seem like paying 1G to give Sigarda a +1/+1 counter from a Sakura-Tribe/Sylvan Ranger/etc is worth it, I know -- but when you actually do it in a real-game situation, it's a lot more backbreaking than it sounds on paper.

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I have actually done this, and it's good but usually I lack creatures in my yard. Usually there's like an explorer or an arbor but giving sigarda +1/+1 is not really worth putting varolz in your deck.

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->) Varolz can play "protect the varolz" against a lot of decks, like Esperblade for example. He has built-in Supreme Verdict protection, and can't die in most combats as long as you have things to regenerate him.

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That's cool but what does he do just by himself?

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-) Nether Void is the stone nuts if you can afford one. Unlike Trinisphere (which is still a savage beating), Void adds on to the mana cost of any spell. So, if they want to Brainstorm, their Brainstorm now costs 3U. Cunning Wish costs 5U. True-Name costs 4UU (not that I recommend bringing it in vs True-Name decks). And so forth. Here's why it's better than Trinisphere despite costing more (monetarily and manawise)

->) Can't be Abrupt Decayed. This is HUGE, since most ANT and TES decks run Decays in their board to deal with problematic permanents.
->) Makes anti-hate cost more. Congratulations, TES, you can Chain of Vapor my Nether Void, for the low, low cost of 3U. Good luck with that.
->) Completely kills combo decks stone-dead. Dark Ritual makes negative mana. A Thresholded Cabal Ritual is only break-even. Sneak attack costs 7? Show and Tell costs 6? All of their cantrips and setup spells cost a million mana, too? They have to choose between Force of Will and Pondering? Sweet deal. In the case of Trinisphere, Show and Tell costs the same. Void is more flexible.
->) Useful against -any- combo deck. This is a problem that combo hate tends to have. It's good vs two or three decks, maybe, but shit vs two or three more. Void is all-purpose douchebaggery.

I can't actually recommend Nether Void highly enough.

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The problem I have is against TES you need other disruption for it to work because it's not coming down before t3 unless you get a tower draw.

I'll respond to other stuff later.

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Originally Posted by pfiremc13

The problem I have is against TES you need other disruption for it to work because it's not coming down before t3 unless you get a tower draw.

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This is the universal TES problem. Surviving to 4 mana is our main goal (unless running Trinisphere). For JundFit, Slaughter Games is our de facto Nether Void. That's our silver bullet and in this application I feel it's even stronger than Void. Because you don't have access to red mana Void is probably the next best thing (or Cranial Extraction/Memoricide). Which is a hilarious thing to consider because Games is ~$1 and Void is ~$150.

I did some testing against ANT last night and I still don't know how to mulligan effectively against storm. Opening up with Carpet/REB is not enough as they don't necessarily need blue spells to win. In fact my roommate combo'd a few times with Rituals/LED/Infernal Tutor. Monoblack storm?
Another thing I noticed was turn 1 SDT being awesome, especially when playing around Duress. I was able to keep my hate cards floating around the top 3 of my library to grab at a moment's notice. This is niche application but a valid point no less. Also if they have a turn 1 win you're fucked regardless but that isn't exactly breaking news.
Sadistic Sacrament could also be a card to consider. It's BBB but it has the potential to grab every combo piece at once and they usually only play 1 of each.


I've been thinking about Pod more, is Lodestone Golem viable? I can easily imagine a MUD-flavored Pod prototype doing ugly things. There's already a heft of artifact creatures as well.
Turn 1 Explorer
Turn 2 Phyrexian Tower -> Lodestone?

It sure looks cute.

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Originally Posted by hymntotourcock

I don't mean to spam the board, but with all this talk of MB combo hate, I edited my PFit list which I plan to bring this to a local legacy event in about 2 weeks. I'd like to iron it out before then.
The main changes are adding 2 Slaughter Games to MB and Toxic Deluge to the SB. I figure it can act as a 4th Deed, and I've been considering adding a second. There is much combo going on at my lgs but not so much that I'm able to rule out rogue aggro decks. These Storm pricks often make me wish I was playing Scapeshift.
I have 61 cards MB, the 61st being Thoughtseize to supplement the combo-interference. 1 black mana shouldn't throw my curve enough to make a difference.

2 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Volrath's Stronghold

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Punishing Fire
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Slaughter Games

SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay

Edit: I forgot my friggin Carpets.

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I'm counting 62 cards MD ! I'm unsure you really want Slaughter MD. This is not scape (1 less land 4 less creature which provide lands on ETB or ETG) and I'm afraid you are greedy about the average CMC going up...
To fight TES -> Chalice is one of your best shots.

Hi Folks,

I just read the past few pages (hum, 50... Or so), and I really had a good feeling with this deck, even with the lack of blue. Nic Fit seems to be a good alternative to my heart-deck, Doomsday Fetchland Tendrils :)

Back in the business :
Scapeshift and Valakut couple is cool, it looks like a very solid kill condition.
Green Sun Zenith is a fantastic card, I love to tutor my library (ok, just my green creatures).
After some goldfish, Primeval Titan is huge. It end the game very quickly by searching for Valakut and mountains.

Enough of paroles, here is my list (not really mine, but eh, who care :)

//Artifact (3)
3 Sensei's Divining Top

//Creature (14)
2 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Wood Elves

//Enchantment (3)
3 Pernicious Deed

//Sorcery (16)
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Diabolic Intent
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Scapeshift

//Land (24)
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
3 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
3 Verdant Catacombs

SB: 1 Damnation
SB: 1 Innocent Blood
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Rakdos's Return
SB: 1 Reanimate
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Reverent Silence
SB: 1 Scapeshift
SB: 1 Slaughter Games
SB: 2 Thoughtseize

Some questions and remarques about the deck that didn't find answer in the first/last few pages.

I feel a lack of shuffle effect. Does any body know how to fulfill this gap ?
Second, Huntmaster of the Fells and me aren't in good feelings. I don't know why.
Is Huntmaster a key-card for Nic Fit ? When and how to play it at its maximum efficiency.


For now, I play the deck like this :
First goal is to resolve Veteran Explorer or let say, put lands into the field.
Second is to mess opponent board/strategy with either GSZ into Scavenging Ooze, Pernicious Deed or BWinshing into focused answer.
Third (the killing phase) GSZ into Primeval Titan or Scapeshifting into Valakut.

Am I on the good way or is there something I am missing ?


PS: This threat is good, the primer is well writted and tournaments reports are detailed.
PS2 : My English isn't that good, please apologize misspelling and wrong sentences :))

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Originally Posted by hymntotourcock

This is the universal TES problem. Surviving to 4 mana is our main goal (unless running Trinisphere). For JundFit, Slaughter Games is our de facto Nether Void. That's our silver bullet and in this application I feel it's even stronger than Void. Because you don't have access to red mana Void is probably the next best thing (or Cranial Extraction/Memoricide). Which is a hilarious thing to consider because Games is ~$1 and Void is ~$150.

I did some testing against ANT last night and I still don't know how to mulligan effectively against storm. Opening up with Carpet/REB is not enough as they don't necessarily need blue spells to win. In fact my roommate combo'd a few times with Rituals/LED/Infernal Tutor. Monoblack storm?
Another thing I noticed was turn 1 SDT being awesome, especially when playing around Duress. I was able to keep my hate cards floating around the top 3 of my library to grab at a moment's notice. This is niche application but a valid point no less. Also if they have a turn 1 win you're fucked regardless but that isn't exactly breaking news.
Sadistic Sacrament could also be a card to consider. It's BBB but it has the potential to grab every combo piece at once and they usually only play 1 of each.


I've been thinking about Pod more, is Lodestone Golem viable? I can easily imagine a MUD-flavored Pod prototype doing ugly things. There's already a heft of artifact creatures as well.
Turn 1 Explorer
Turn 2 Phyrexian Tower -> Lodestone?

It sure looks cute.

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My meta is "somehow" infested with ANT. Slower than TES, but more resilient.
So, I guess I can give you some useful tips:

Game 1 =
-> your first zenith should always be for "Ooze". MVP against ANT. Be sure to take cantrips/mana accel from their yard. By doing so, you are crushing hard their PIF plan.
-> don't accelerate into flashback therapy on Veteran if it is not to put a good clock on them and/or having seen their hand. Most list plays at least 2 basics (even 3).
-> Discards should target IT/DR/CR/LED depends of the board and their hand (Also BW depends on the ANT build).

They cannot kill "Ooze" first game. So cross fingers...

Game 2 = Same plan. Board in Surgical Ex, REB, TS, Slaughter. Take out Titan, Thrun, Pernicious deed (keep 2 in if BW build or if you saw ETW and side out the whole PF engine), AD, 1 Kessig and 2 PF.

They will likely have some AD/Pyro for Ooze so drop it wisely. Cross finger again.
Thragtusk is also good against chain of vapor as it will leave a token behind (don't forget it !)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by markkugel

Hi Folks,

Some questions and remarques about the deck that didn't find answer in the first/last few pages.

I feel a lack of shuffle effect. Does any body know how to fulfill this gap ?
Second, Huntmaster of the Fells and me aren't in good feelings. I don't know why.
Is Huntmaster a key-card for Nic Fit ? When and how to play it at its maximum efficiency.


For now, I play the deck like this :
First goal is to resolve Veteran Explorer or let say, put lands into the field.
Second is to mess opponent board/strategy with either GSZ into Scavenging Ooze, Pernicious Deed or BWinshing into focused answer.
Third (the killing phase) GSZ into Primeval Titan or Scapeshifting into Valakut.

Am I no the good way or is there something I am missing ?

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1) Cut a basic mountain add a wooded foothills. Add a Sakura tribe-elder and go to 61 cards MD. So you'll have 2 more ways to shuffle the library.
2) I'm also playing with a split 2 Huntmaster/ 1 ooze. Personal preference/meta choice, I guess. Mine is infested with combo and Ooze is an ALL STAR.
3) Huntmaster is a key card in Nic Fit. It can win games on its own. Furthermore, don't forget we are a very control deck and gaining/tanking for a few more turns are necessary to resolve our kill. Huntmaster provides a token (2 bodies), some life and could be a huge beat if your opponent has an empty hand/board which is bound to happen if you pernicious deed first and land it thereafter :D
To sum-up he is a bit like our "little" Jace.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralf

1) Cut a basic mountain add a wooded foothills. Add a Sakura tribe-elder and go to 61 cards MD. So you'll have 2 more ways to shuffle the library.
2) I'm also playing with a split 2 Huntmaster/ 1 ooze. Personal preference/meta choice, I guess. Mine is infested with combo and Ooze is an ALL STAR.
3) Huntmaster is a key card in Nic Fit. It can win games on its own. Furthermore, don't forget we are a very control deck and gaining/tanking for a few more turns are necessary to resolve our kill. Huntmaster provides a token (2 bodies), some life and could be a huge beat if your opponent has an empty hand/board which is bound to happen if you pernicious deed first and land it thereafter :D
To sum-up he is a bit like our "little" Jace.

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All-in-all, I think you need at least 4 gaining life/strong CIP effect creatures in Scapeshift (2 Hunt, 2 thragt).