4 Card Blind

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

6. Reeplcheep: Glint Hawk, Krark-Clan Shaman, Ancient Den, Great Furnace

3. Nasst: Blackcleave cliffs, Inkmoth Nexus, Shadow Guildmage, Acquisitions Expert
Disagreement, I can always discard ancient den and I am always ahead in the race. DD.

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When I'm OTP:

Option 1:

t1 - cliffs, guildmage / furnace, shaman, ping
t2 - acquisitions expert, you need to either discard Ancient Den, or Glint Hawk, either way, you can't play Glint Hawk anymore, and I win.

Option 2:

t1 - cliff, guildmage / Glint Hawk bouncing Den back.
t2 - acquisitions expert

Here you have to reveal 2 cards, you always reveal Ancient Den, because it's the worst card, but you have to reveal also Great Furnace or Shaman. In any case, I take the card that's not Ancient Den, and you can't play shaman anymore.

From here on you can't attack with Glint Hawk, since I can block with Inkmoth, make it a 1/1 permanently, and then ping it to death in my turn. If you keep it back, I can attack with Expert, and you can't block it, since if you do, I'll just ping Glint Hawk to death. So you can't attack attack or block. Meaning I win after 20 attacks with Acquisitions Expert.

I'm pretty sure those are all the possible lines. But please let me know if I missed something.

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

7. Wrath of Pie: Hall of Storm Giants, Saprazzan Cove, Rishadan Dockhand, Frost Titan
11. PJim: Blooming Marsh, Magus of the Vineyard, Plaguecrafter, Dust Bowl WW - It's close, but Frost Titan barely gets there on the draw.

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PJim wins OTP:

t1 - Marsh, Magus / Hall, Dockhand
t2 - Plaguecrafter, sac plaguecrafter

Now you only have Hall in play, if you ever play cove. It'll get Dust Bowled. If you don't, you'll get beaten down by a 1/1.

If you choose to play cove t1 instead of dockhand. PJim can just Dust Bowl t2. If you play nothing, PJim can beat down with the 1/1.

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Originally Posted by Nasst

PJim wins OTP:

t1 - Marsh, Magus / Hall, Dockhand
t2 - Plaguecrafter, sac plaguecrafter

Now you only have Hall in play, if you ever play cove. It'll get Dust Bowled. If you don't, you'll get beaten down by a 1/1.

If you choose to play cove t1 instead of dockhand. PJim can just Dust Bowl t2. If you play nothing, PJim can beat down with the 1/1.

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That means I also lose to PJim OTD.

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Originally Posted by Nasst

I'm pretty sure those are all the possible lines. But please let me know if I missed something.

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Ok I definitely forgot that guildmage was a relevant creature type. WL then?

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Originally Posted by Nasst

PJim wins OTP:

t1 - Marsh, Magus / Hall, Dockhand
t2 - Plaguecrafter, sac plaguecrafter

Now you only have Hall in play, if you ever play cove. It'll get Dust Bowled. If you don't, you'll get beaten down by a 1/1.

If you choose to play cove t1 instead of dockhand. PJim can just Dust Bowl t2. If you play nothing, PJim can beat down with the 1/1.

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I missed that line. Probably too wrapped up on the FTW matchup, which is hilarious for absurd reasons (and it's possible I'm still wrong there).

12. FTW: Hall of Storm Giants, Calciform Pools, Brazen Borrower, Beloved Chaplain

This was my attempt at redoing dte's deck with tech for the mirror. That deck, silk's Den deck, and a lot of the other remaining top decks relied on removal. Hexproof/protection seemed like good tech against that (and also vs the 999/999 creatures). True-Name Nemesis and Dreadship Reef were banned, so I settled on Chaplain. It seemed like good mirror tech. Unfortunately LD (Rishadan Dockhand+Frost Titan) is even better tech!

Note: Calciform Pools says "1, remove X charge counters:" not "T, remove X charge counters:". I can remove charge counters by tapping either land.
That means for example I can play Chaplain or block with Hall without tapping out of Petty Theft mana.
It also means Rishadan Dockhand can't tap me out of Chaplain.


1. Asthereal (TO): You can make Gearhulk on your turn 2, but I have Petty Theft by my turn 2 (with your Welder tapped). If I Petty Theft Gearhulk while Welder is tapped, I win.
You can get some early Menace Neonate damage against me, but eventually I have Chaplain + Hall to block. Then my deck takes over the late game.
WW 6-0

2. dte: Dockhand is good tech, but I can charge in response, and eventually I can play Beloved Chaplain. If you keep tapping me down, my Hall can never attack but then yours can't either. If you try to attack with Borrower, I can make one to block. I need to look at this more but it looks like a draw. I think I need to keep Chaplain back to defend before I can get 20 attacks in.
DD 2-2

3. Nasst: I dismissed Acquisitions Expert as unreliable, but maybe I should have given it a better look.
OTP I can respond to Expert with Petty Theft on Guildmage (preventing attack), but you still discard Chaplain. On your turn 3 you have to recast Guildmage (no Inkmoth) and attack for 1. By your turn 4, you can attack for 2 damage + 1 infect per turn. But this is slow (turn 13 clock). By turn 9 at 9 life, the ground creatures can't attack into me anymore without dying to Hall. Then I can go up to 9 poison before I'm forced to ambush Inkmoth with Brazen Boi. Then I can go up to infinite mana and my 7/7 races the 2 1/xs.
OTD Acquisitions Expert takes Brazen Borrower and I can't race Inkmoth.
WL 3-3?

4. GoblinSmashmaster: I regret my choice of lands. Can't cast Chaplain fast enough to stop Lackey. LL 0-6

5. alphastryk: This mirror I should beat. If I hold back Brazen Borrower to ambush yours, you never have a legal target for Gilded Drake, so you're playing with 1 less card. Beloved Chaplain beats down before you get enough mana for lethal Hall attacks, plus I have my own Hall. WW 6-0

6. Reeplcheep: You're fast, but Brazen Borrower + Chaplain stabilize first, then eventually Hall gets there. WW 6-0

7. Wrath of Pie: This is hilarious and exactly the kind of convoluted nonsense I hoped to see in a creatures+lands round.
Dockhand can't tap me out of Chaplain. You can forever tap down my Hall (taking both our Halls out of combat), then perpetually attack Frost Titan into Chaplain to keep Brazen Borrower tapped down. Does that not turn into a draw?
You could tap me down on my turn, then untap and attack with Hall & Titan (I can only block 1). However that lets me counter attack with my Hall. You're ahead in tempo on those attacks, but I also get in a few Brazen Borrower attacks before Frost Titan taps it down, so I think you can't afford to race me.
DD 2-2?

8. silkster: OTP I get to respond with Petty Theft on Baboons, hilariously manascrewing both of us. But then your 1/1 Lumberjack gets there. LL 0-6

9. RoosterCocoa: OTP I can Petty Theft before you activate Imp. That protects my Borrower. Depending on what line you take, Borrower could ambush Inkmoth or even race it. Eventually I should go over the top with Hall.
OTD you can discard Borrower and race with Inkmoth. WL 3-3

10. maxx!: Same problem. I picked the wrong lands. LL 0-6

11. PJim: OTP I play T1 Calciform Pools. You play Magus. I use GG to put 1 charge counter on Calciform + bounce Magus with Petty Theft. You replay Magus. I can charge again and then play either Borrower or Chaplain, but then you Dust Bowl me and Plaguecrafter beats my creature. LL 0-6

28 points (8 wins, 4 draws, 10 loss)

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Originally Posted by FTW

12. FTW: Hall of Storm Giants, Calciform Pools, Brazen Borrower, Beloved Chaplain


7. Wrath of Pie: This is hilarious and exactly the kind of convoluted nonsense I hoped to see in a creatures+lands round.
Dockhand can't tap me out of Chaplain. You can forever tap down my Hall (taking both our Halls out of combat), then perpetually attack Frost Titan into Chaplain to keep Brazen Borrower tapped down. Does that not turn into a draw?
You could tap me down on my turn, then untap and attack with Hall & Titan (I can only block 1). However that lets me counter attack with my Hall. You're ahead in tempo on those attacks, but I also get in a few Brazen Borrower attacks before Frost Titan taps it down, so I think you can't afford to race me.
DD 2-2?

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I could potentially switch targets with the Frost Titan trigger to your Hall to try to push damage through, so it depends on how much damage you can force through with Borrower beforehand. That would be absurd if the matchup came down to combat math of all things. (Also, Dockhand should get some free attacks in, because its land tapping becomes useless at some point, and you're going to block a 6/6 over a 1/2 every time.)

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

I could potentially switch targets with the Frost Titan trigger to your Hall to try to push damage through, so it depends on how much damage you can force through with Borrower beforehand. That would be absurd if the matchup came down to combat math of all things. (Also, Dockhand should get some free attacks in, because its land tapping becomes useless at some point, and you're going to block a 6/6 over a 1/2 every time.)

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T1 Hall / Cove
T2 1 counter / 1 counter, Dockhand
T3 2 counters / 2 counters
T4 flash Borrower (-2 counters) / 3 counters
T5 1 counter, attack for 3 / 4 counters
T6 2 counters, attack for 3 / 5 counters
T7 Chaplain (-2 counters), attack for 3 / 6 counters
T8 1 counter, attack for 4 / Frost Titan tapping Borrower [W=7]
T9 2 counters, stay back to defend / 1 counter

By the time Frost Titan lands, you're low in life. I also get back up to Hall mana before you do. I don't see how you can force through enough damage from there without losing to Hall/Borrower + Chaplain attacking back.

Ward 3 makes it hard for you to Frost Titan my land. For example, if you attack with Hall & Titan, you can't float mana from before attackers (animate Hall) to after attackers (Titan trigger) to pay the Ward cost. Then it would block and kill Frost Titan -> FTW wins. To prevent that, you basically have to tap me down with Dockhand every turn, so you can't get much Dockhand damage through. The land tapping isn't useless. It stops my 7/7 from eating your 6/6 that must attack each turn.

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Originally Posted by FTW

T1 Hall / Cove
T2 1 counter / 1 counter, Dockhand
T3 2 counters / 2 counters
T4 flash Borrower (-2 counters) / 3 counters
T5 1 counter, attack for 3 / 4 counters
T6 2 counters, attack for 3 / 5 counters
T7 Chaplain (-2 counters), attack for 3 / 6 counters
T8 1 counter, attack for 4 / Frost Titan tapping Borrower [W=7]
T9 2 counters, stay back to defend / 1 counter

By the time Frost Titan lands, you're low in life. I also get back up to Hall mana before you do. I don't see how you can force through enough damage from there without losing to Hall/Borrower + Chaplain attacking back.

Ward 3 makes it hard for you to Frost Titan my land. For example, if you attack with Hall & Titan, you can't float mana from before attackers (animate Hall) to after attackers (Titan trigger) to pay the Ward cost. Then it would block and kill Frost Titan -> FTW wins. To prevent that, you basically have to tap me down with Dockhand every turn, so you can't get much Dockhand damage through. The land tapping isn't useless. It stops my 7/7 from eating your 6/6 that must attack each turn.

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I only need 5 counters to cast Frost Titan (using Hall as the sixth), which means I am at 11. I can play around ward by delaying the animation of my Hall until after I get the trigger through to keep your Hall tapped, and I can build up as much mana as I could ever need beforehand. I should barely make it at 2 life thanks to Dockhand helping with the beatdown (I would fall short otherwise). Attacking with Chaplain as well just helps me kill you faster, so that plan is no good.

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

I can play around ward by delaying the animation of my Hall until after I get the trigger through to keep your Hall tapped

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Frost Titan needs to attack to get the trigger. You can't declare Hall as an attacker after other attackers are declared, so it doesn't work even with infinite mana.

**Beginning of combat**
<- Must pay cost to animate Hall by now, otherwise it can't attack
Beginning of combat step ends & mana pools empty
**Declare Attackers Step***
Declare your attackers
Now abilities go on stack, players get priority, etc
Put Frost Titan's ability on stack, select target
<-- This is when Ward cost must be paid

No matter how much mana you have, you can only produce it once per turn, and you can't float mana between the 2 steps.

So you could choose to lock down my land, but then your 7/7 Hall isn't attacking. The best you could do is lock down my land and force through your 1/2. But then I get to attack back with Borrower for 3. Seems bad for you. You're better off locking down Borrower.

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Originally Posted by FTW

Frost Titan needs to attack to get the trigger. You can't declare Hall as an attacker after other attackers are declared, so it doesn't work even with infinite mana.

**Beginning of combat**
<- Must pay cost to animate Hall by now, otherwise it can't attack
Beginning of combat step ends & mana pools empty
**Declare Attackers Step***
Declare your attackers
Now abilities go on stack, players get priority, etc
Put Frost Titan's ability on stack, select target
<-- This is when Ward cost must be paid

No matter how much mana you have, you can only produce it once per turn, and you can't float mana between the 2 steps.

So you could choose to lock down my land, but then your 7/7 Hall isn't attacking. The best you could do is lock down my land and force through your 1/2. But then I get to attack back with Borrower for 3. Seems bad for you. You're better off locking down Borrower.

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I don't activate Hall to attack on the same turn, I'm well aware that works poorly.

I did miss that you can activate tapped Hall just to give it ward though, that should mean that I have to tap down Pools instead with the trigger so you can't activate Hall on subsequent turns (using Dockhand to tap down Hall for a turn, and still paying for ward on that turn no matter how many times you stack ward via multiple Hall activations).

(As a side note, mana pools no longer exist. It was a side effect of the mass mana ability errata, so now players simply lose unspent mana. Less flavor, but better syntax I'm guessing.)

I think it is a 2-2 draw match, but that FTW has to hold faerie.

assuming lots of counters, and everything untapped at FTW's upkeep:
During FTW's upkeep, WoP can tap hall using hall mana. If FTW activates hall in response (cost 6 counters), WoP can pay ward with cove (cost 3 counters). Doing so every turn depletes FTW's resources, so he cannot do it. He lets hall get tapped, and pass.
WoP's turn.
Option 1:
He can attack with titan, which get blocked by the chaplain, tap faerie, and pass. Back to the initial situation, and a draw as a result.
Option 2:
He activates hall, and attack with everything, dealing 7 damage and tapping faerie (chaplain blocks hall, titan and rishadan go through). Now FTW's turn, he can attack for 7, or 8 for the last time. staying back does not work.

So it all boils down to how much starting life they have.

If FTW does not hold theft. WoP should rush giant to tap down faerie as soon as he can. FTW should rush faerie to get as much damage in as possible. As WoP can chose to draw, let's see if he can win when he is OTP:
T1 cove / hall
T2 1c, hall, rishadan / land, 1c
T3 2c, attack for 1 / 2c
T4 3c, attack for 1 (FTW18) / faerie
T5 4c, attack for 1 (FTW17) (making FTW pay 2 counters for playing chaplain could seem better than 1 damage, but then FTW can play chaplain the turn you tap hall for titan) / chaplain, attack for 3
T6 5c, pass / 1c, attack for 3 (WoP14, better to keep chaplain in defense for saving life, WoP is anyway dead in 2 attacks).
T7 titan tap faerie on EtB / pass
T8 titan tap faerie by attacking into chaplain, deals 1 damage with rishadan, FTW16 1c for WoP, 2c for FTW / 3c
T9 titan tap faerie by attacking into chaplain, deals 1 damage with rishadan, FTW15 2c for WoP / 4c
T9 titan tap faerie by attacking into chaplain, deals 1 damage with rishadan, FTW14 3c for WoP / 5c
T9 titan tap faerie by attacking into chaplain, deals 1 damage with rishadan, FTW13 4c for WoP / 6c
T9 titan tap faerie by attacking into chaplain, pass with cove, hall and rishadan untapped / now FTW would lose if he waits for infinite mana, as both players can kill in two attacks, but WoP starts. upkeep, WoP taps hall. If FTW activates, WoP can pay ward. If he let it go, it goes to many mana and WoP wins.

OTP, FTW can play T2 chaplain, saving 3 life, and making WoP needs three attacks.

From there it should be WoP 4-1?
It would be fun if your result is actually different depending play/draw, given the decks :)
But FTW can also hold theft.

Alternatively, FTW could wait for WoP to play titan, to bounce it and play faerie EoT. Then it is better for WoP to wait forever to start with many counters, to be able to replay it the next turn. WoP would have to commit cove for titan, so cannot prevent hall from attacking.
With infinite counters, rishadan and chaplain in play, faerie and titan in hand, play/draw does not matter:
WoP titan. EoT theft it and play faerie / attack with both hall and faerie (WoP10)
WoP titan, tapping faerie. Has to tap cove for it. So FTW's turn is attack with hall (WoP3, FTW20).
WoP attack with titan, chaplain blocks titan (FTW 20).

That would be 2-2

Tapping lands during FTW's upkeep to prevent him to build counters if he wants to hold petty theft, but it costs 1 damage per counter. The above sequence cost 17 counters from FTW, 12 from WoP. There might be a range that is profitable for WoP, like tapping the land at 16 counters, taking 4 damages (he needs to be at 18 for FTW to need three attacks). Still looks far from anything but 2-2.

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Originally Posted by FTW

12. FTW: Hall of Storm Giants, Calciform Pools, Brazen Borrower, Beloved Chaplain

3. Nasst: I dismissed Acquisitions Expert as unreliable, but maybe I should have given it a better look.
OTP I can respond to Expert with Petty Theft on Guildmage (preventing attack), but you still discard Chaplain. On your turn 3 you have to recast Guildmage (no Inkmoth) and attack for 1. By your turn 4, you can attack for 2 damage + 1 infect per turn. But this is slow (turn 13 clock). By turn 9 at 9 life, the ground creatures can't attack into me anymore without dying to Hall. Then I can go up to 9 poison before I'm forced to ambush Inkmoth with Brazen Boi. Then I can go up to infinite mana and my 7/7 races the 2 1/xs.
OTD Acquisitions Expert takes Brazen Borrower and I can't race Inkmoth.
WL 3-3?

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I think I can win if I just keep attacking into hall!

t1 hall - guildmage
t2 pools - expert, bounce guildmage in response, I take chaplain
t3 counter - replay guildmage hit for 1 (19/20) (1 counter)
t4 counter - hit for 2 and 1 poison, (17[1]/20) (2 counters)
t5 counter - hit for 2 and 1 poison (15[2]/20) (3 counters)
t6 counter - hit for 2 and 1 poison (13[3]/20) (4 counters)
t7 counter - hit for 2 and 1 poison (11[4]/20) (5 counters)
t8 counter - hit for 2 and 1 poison (9[5]/20) (6 counters)
t9 pass - attack and get blocked, hit for 1 and 1 poison (8[6]/20) (0 counters)
t10 counter - hit for 1 and 1 poison (7[7]/20) (1 counter)
t11 counter - hit for 1 and 1 poison (6[8]/20) (2 counters)
t12 borrower - hit for 1 and trade borrower (5[8]/20) (0 counters)

Now you're at 5, with 0 counters on hall, and I kill you before you can activate hall again.

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Originally Posted by dte

Alternatively, FTW could wait for WoP to play titan, to bounce it and play faerie EoT. Then it is better for WoP to wait forever to start with many counters, to be able to replay it the next turn. WoP would have to commit cove for titan, so cannot prevent hall from attacking.
With infinite counters, rishadan and chaplain in play, faerie and titan in hand, play/draw does not matter:
WoP titan. EoT theft it and play faerie / attack with both hall and faerie (WoP10)
WoP titan, tapping faerie. Has to tap cove for it. So FTW's turn is attack with hall (WoP3, FTW20).
WoP attack with titan, chaplain blocks titan (FTW 20).

That would be 2-2

Tapping lands during FTW's upkeep to prevent him to build counters if he wants to hold petty theft, but it costs 1 damage per counter. The above sequence cost 17 counters from FTW, 12 from WoP. There might be a range that is profitable for WoP, like tapping the land at 16 counters, taking 4 damages (he needs to be at 18 for FTW to need three attacks). Still looks far from anything but 2-2.

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First Titan cast is going to target Pools with the initial etb trigger which means I get to avoid a Hall attack and recast Frost Titan on the same phase. I still face potential Chaplain attacks before that point, though.

Also, if I am trying to win a race, Pools is the best target for the Titan attack trigger. (Took me way too long to realize that.) Dockhand can tap down Hall well before combat, so keeping Pools tapped makes it effectively 7 damage vs. 3 damage a turn cycle as long as I have the mana (and I can build up all that mana).

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

First Titan cast is going to target Pools with the initial etb trigger which means I get to avoid a Hall attack and recast Frost Titan on the same phase. I still face potential Chaplain attacks before that point, though.

Also, if I am trying to win a race, Pools is the best target for the Titan attack trigger. (Took me way too long to realize that.) Dockhand can tap down Hall well before combat, so keeping Pools tapped makes it effectively 7 damage vs. 3 damage a turn cycle as long as I have the mana (and I can build up all that mana).

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I completely missed that titan could tap lands!
Then indeed you should win it, clocking at 7 vs 3, and starting.

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Originally Posted by dte

I completely missed that titan could tap lands!
Then indeed you should win it, clocking at 7 vs 3, and starting.

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It's even simpler than that, I should be tapping Pools with Dockhand rather than Hall, which forces Petty Theft on Dockhand just to cast Chaplain (even on the draw, leading with Dockhand). Then once Chaplain is cast I can switch to Hall, tap down Borrower with Titan, start building up mana, then switch to Pools as the Titan target to win which should be doable because I don't take that many Chaplain/Borrower attacks beforehand. (There's also just trying to kill fast with Borrower, but I can simply tap it down until Hall is close to threatening to block via activation, then switch to Pools.)

Guess that means none of us should be playing anything with Port in Legacy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

It's even simpler than that, I should be tapping Pools with Dockhand rather than Hall, which forces Petty Theft on Dockhand just to cast Chaplain (even on the draw, leading with Dockhand). Then once Chaplain is cast I can switch to Hall, tap down Borrower with Titan, start building up mana, then switch to Pools as the Titan target to win which should be doable because I don't take that many Chaplain/Borrower attacks beforehand. (There's also just trying to kill fast with Borrower, but I can simply tap it down until Hall is close to threatening to block via activation, then switch to Pools.)

Guess that means none of us should be playing anything with Port in Legacy.

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Even if you tap pools, FTW can still cast chaplain, removing counters does not require to tap pools.

Tapping pools and keeping it tapped is still good to prevent an untapped hall, and you still win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

Even if you tap pools, FTW can still cast chaplain, removing counters does not require to tap pools.

Tapping pools and keeping it tapped is still good to prevent an untapped hall, and you still win.

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Oh right, extra mana to activate. That means I have to consider that way to cast Petty Theft as well, and we're back to me trying to survive Chaplain attacks.

11. PJim: Blooming Marsh, Magus of the Vineyard, Plaguecrafter, Dust Bowl
I've had zero time these last two weeks, pulled this from my "too dumb to play" pile. There'll be another next week if I'm able to submit at all.

vs

1. Asthereal (TO): Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk / 3-3
2. dte: Hall of Storm Giants, brazen borrower, Saprazzan Cove, rishadan dockhand / 3-3, Disagreement, see my line below.
3. Nasst: Blackcleave cliffs, Inkmoth Nexus, Shadow Guildmage, Acquisitions Expert / 1-4
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Volcanic Island, Goblin Lackey, Sidisi's Faithful, Goblin Settler / 3-3
5. alphastryk: Hall of Storm Giants, Calciform Pools, Brazen Borrower, Gilded Drake / 6-0
6. Reeplcheep: Glint Hawk, Krark-Clan Shaman, Ancient Den, Great Furnace / 0-6
7. Wrath of Pie: Hall of Storm Giants, Saprazzan Cove, Rishadan Dockhand, Frost Titan / 3-3
8. silkster: Stomping Ground, Orcish Lumberjack, Ravenous Baboons, Orcish Lumberjack / 3-3
9. RoosterCocoa: Swamp, Inkmoth Nexus, Guul Draz Assassin, Pilfering Imp / 0-6
10. maxx!: Mountain, Fanatical Firebrand, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Settler /0-6
12. FTW: Hall of Storm Giants, Calciform Pools, Brazen Borrower, Beloved Chaplain / 6-0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PJim

11. PJim: Blooming Marsh, Magus of the Vineyard, Plaguecrafter, Dust Bowl

vs

2. dte: Hall of Storm Giants, brazen borrower, Saprazzan Cove, rishadan dockhand / 3-3, Disagreement, see my line below.

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I dont think we are in disagreement, Nasst found your winning line vs WoP and me OTP:

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Originally Posted by dte

That means I also lose to PJim OTD.

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