Recycle can get cut it seems. Just not that nessecary and can be clunky. Glad you like Fetters. About 61 cards, just ignore the thread and play 60, it is strictly better.
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Recycle can get cut it seems. Just not that nessecary and can be clunky. Glad you like Fetters. About 61 cards, just ignore the thread and play 60, it is strictly better.
As a rule of thumb I totally agree with you. Statistically spoken it is of course possible to get in a spot where e.g. 21 lands are not enough and 22 are too much (on a very high sample size). Then it could be right to add the 61 card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao
The I don't want to cut a card, I'll stay with 61 - move is of course just wrong most of the times.
May I suggest to have a try with Knight of the reliquary in place of Batterskull?Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
From my point of view:
+ zenithable
+ some lands to tutor (Karakas, Phy Tower. May add a side Bojuka)
+ great interact with both Gitrog and Tireless
- can be decayed
My 2 cents.
I wish you a great and prolific GP Colombus ! :)
No, if that's your reasoning 22/60 is better every time. The main reason for 61 has to do with the size of a GSZ toolbox. The extra value a card like Qasali Pridemage brings, outweighs the disadvantage of 61 cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by emuhell
Last night was Leg Day at my local store. Event entry is only $5 so I have been using this as an opportunity to get in a few rounds of testing with Pod Fit.
I took the following list to a 2-1-drop finish last night.
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Aven Mindscensor
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Liliana, Heretical Healer
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Restoration Angel
1 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Shriekmaw
3 Birthing Pod
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Diabolic Intent
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant
4 Heath
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
sb::
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Pithing Needle
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Abrupt Decay
Round 1 (Dredge) 2-1
I lost Game 1 quickly to a turn 2 12 Zombies and Flamekin Zealot. Games 2 and 3 I was able to lock my opponent out with Gaddock Teeg with Thoughtseize, Containment Priest and Surgical Extraction came in from the SB. Game 2 and 3 had amazing opening hands with relevant SB cards
Round 2 (Lands) 1-2
Merit Lage made an early apeparance in games 1 and 3. Game 2 my opponent played the mana denial game and didn't get a Loam dredge going. SB games were -3 Birthing Pod +1 Needle +2 Surgical
Round 3 (Combo Elves) 2-1
Not much to say here. He hoofed me early game 1. Games 2-3 were long but each ended with a Jitte equipped to Tireless Tracker. I used Ethersworn Cononist and Gaddock Teeg to limit his fun.
Drop
I was pleased with the deck performance and had a ton of fun.
I would like a little more game against the Stage - Lage Combo. Pithing needle feels like it can help. Maybe a second needle in the SB would help. Thoughts?
I'm not sure you can really fix the Lands matchup. Maybe more Swords/Path assuming you're on white. Leyline of the Void and Surgical are also pretty good.
Has anyone ever tried a Chrome Mox in the main?
Anyone here ever try a Natural Order build? I was thinking about putting something together in BUG I think (brainstorm your green fat back in) with Prog and maybe Worldspine as my targets.
Something like
My thinking is a T2 Progenitus is pretty good. I don't think we can Hoof like Elves, but maybe that's worth trying since it only takes a couple guys to get huge damage. Anyway, curious if someone has considered this as a way to abuse our early mana this way. I think Worldspine seems promising as well since non-white decks are stuck taking 15 next turn.Quote:
3-4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Shardless Agent (green for NO, blue for FoW)
4 Goyf? (hold early ground)
0-2 Clique (could use it to recycle fats)
1 Progenitus
0-1 Worldspine Wurm/Ruric Thar, etc.
4 Decay
4 BS
4 Therapy
3-4 Natural Order
0-2 Crop Rotation
0-4 Force (pretty castable)
0-2 Jace
21 lands (1 Tower, maybe 1 stronghold)
Ruric Thar would be a nice card, but unfortunately Karakas has some other opinion on him.
Worldspine and Progenitus, they are not Griselbrand and Emrakul unfortunately. Even getting them into play doesn't mean you win the game automatically. Against Miracles, Worldspine is always exiled and Prog probably gets Terminus'ed.
And against Aggro or Tempo decks the problem is that you still need to attack twice or sometimes even three times with them to win. Getting Order on turn 2 or 3 is pretty unrealistic so usually it will be turn 4 or 5 and it will be your one big guy against their entire team and that is often not enough.
I don't disagree with your points completely; but I don't see how they are any different than things you'd say against running nic fit in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao
1 & 2. This is literally the case with every other creature in the game. How is this a different argument than "Grave Titan/Primetime/etc" just get Terminus'd/aren't Emrakul?
3. How is this different than literally every other Nic Fit iteration? The only cards we can compare to are Hoof (which Nic Fit doesn't run) and Nic fit fatties, which are harder to cast and slower to win and easier to kill.
4. Again, how is this any different than casting Rhinos, GSZ-for-6/7, or Primetimes? DRS gets you there T3, as does Tower, as does Explorer, as does crop-rotation. This isn't any different than Nic Fit but "minus some 3-drops and 6 drops, add some NO and fat"
If your claim is that having a card that puts a harder to kill, faster win con, easier to cast card on the field is not good enough; i don't think it's the sacrifice clause that is the problem; wouldn't it be the deck?
Playing Order comes at a cost. First you put dead cards into your deck and risk drawing them. Second you risk drawing Natural Order without Sac Outlets. You will start to get some really terrible hands that simply lose because you draw the wrong halfs of the combo. Third you risk 2 for 1ing yourself in case of removal or a FoW. If Titan / Witness / Tracker get removed you 2 for 1 the opponent, if your Order target gets killed the opponent 2 for 1s you.
These are pretty big disadvantages so the return should be much bigger than what Prog / Worldspine actually are. If Order could search Emrakul or Grisl it would be worth it. But the Green options are not gamebreaking enough to warrant the huge investment.
When we were looking into NO previously, one of the ideas we considered Elderscale Wurm as a target that helps against aggro decks.
I do think that Natural Order needs Sylvan Safekeeper to protect the Worldspine / Elderscale, and Arbor as a fetchable NO fodder.
This isn't a NO deck. We can't take a shell like rug order, gut a few cards and put vet and friends in like it better. We want a way to abuse the mana advantage. Rector build makes sense because plan b is hard cast the bomb enchantments. Legacy is wide, let's not narrow our scope but instead broaden our horizons. If rhino isn't where we want to be and pod is not to your liking, where does that leave us?
As a former Elves! pilot I'm very sure I do not want NO in my Nic Fit list. Resolving it is a hard thing to do and there's plenty of other stuff you want to be doing already.
Also if we want to play a 4-mana Sorcery that wins us the game if it resolves, it's probably a better bet to just play Scapeshift.
Where are we on that semi-aggressive jund fit build?
Not sure who else will be there but our very own Dominic Pain will be there. Shout out to Basedtopic! Do well with rhinos!
I feel like the problem with the Jund Aggro lists is that the payoff just isn't as good.
BUG lists get Baleful Strix and Brainstorm and counterspells.
Abzan gets Swords / Path, Sigarda and Stoneforge.
Scapeshift gets Scapeshift.
Control Jund gets Punishing Fire and Liliana.
What does aggressive Jund get to play that the others don't do better?
- Huntmaster is not a top tier card currently.
- Bloodbraid is awful in our deck.
- There aren't that many other actually good aggressive red options that make use of our access to mana.
IMO if we want to be more aggro we want to go harder on the burn plan and run Fireblasts or something.
Now if they printed some 3-4 mana RG creature with haste and a card advantage effect (even just like a 3/4 haste for 4 that draws us a card or something vanilla like that) then the deck would be significantly more relevant.
Arrived in Columbus. Eating now...will be doing dealering and artisting tonight, but not playing in any of the sides. I will see all of you tomorrow most likely - I'll do my best to find as many of you as I can :)
While I agree with your other threat assessment (RIP Huntmaster, you used to be so great and now you're so medium), Xenagos the Reveler and especially Stormbreath Dragon are both very powerful magic cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
Stormbreath is nice, but not Zenithable like Sigarda which puts the brakes on any attempt to build around him.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrIggins
I'd say Xenagos was interesting (mainly for against Miracles) but Nahiri's popularity makes him a lot less relevant than he maybe was previously.
I'm at GP Columbus here jamming some Rhinos in Legacy!!! Hopefully I'll find some of y'all tomorrow! For reference, here's the list I'll be playing tomorrow, barring anymore last minute changes.
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Path to Exile
4 Siege Rhino
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Painful Truths
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Sylvan Library
61 Main
SIDEBOARD
2 Price of Progress
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Pithing Needle
1 To The Slaughter
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Slaughter Games
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
15 Side
Wasn't able to win any buys today but I only played Fit in one GPT, I was too excited to play Spanish Inquisition with the LED's i finally got.