[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

Did they really start to print reasonable alternatives to expensive cards?

http://mythicspoiler.com/cn2/cards/r...oftheguard.jpg http://mythicspoiler.com/ptk/cards/i...lrecruiter.jpg

I know that recruiter is not on the RL. But if it would be, would you consider this new printing OK or too close?

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Originally Posted by jattra

Did they really start to print reasonable alternatives to expensive cards?

http://mythicspoiler.com/cn2/cards/r...oftheguard.jpg http://mythicspoiler.com/ptk/cards/i...lrecruiter.jpg

I know that recruiter is not on the RL. But if it would be, would you consider this new printing OK or too close?

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We had the same with Fork and Reveverate or Twincast. They can bent it the way they like. If they reprint LED with a tap+sac ability rather than just sac, it would be fine too. Same for the often quoted Snow Duals.

The white one is probably better in a vacuum, even.

Different color alone makes it different enough... The toughness versus power makes it different enough too. Creature type alone might not be enough though.

I think this is better in every deck that uses Imperial, except Painter? It's gotta be better in Death and Taxes... maybe a push in Aluren?

Aluren is currently spiking. Obviously because of new Recruiter, but Aluren is on the Reserve List as well so don't expect it to come back down even if it the deck still sees as much play as now (that is, not much).

It's not even a good deck...

Great, this sort of thing really maintains my confidence in the Magic game as a "collectible". And it's not like Aluren is a unique, interesting, and enjoyable Magic card that could potentially diversify and give new players a new way to enter the Legacy format. Or anything like that. Just an old card that doesn't sell any boosters.
/

Seriously though, the reprint policy is so tremendously stupid that they don't even bother trying to explain the reason for its existance.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...icy-2010-03-10

They explain why they reprint cards, and why no new cards will ever be added to the reserve list (thereby admitting just how stupid the idea is).
They do not explain why the list came into existance in the first place, how that logic applies to the reality of today, or why it couldn't be modified or annulled.

I hope that the community in time will find a way around this stupidity, because Wizards will rather just let the format die than break the RL.

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Originally Posted by Cartesian

Wizards will rather just let the format die than break the RL.

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If only I had a dollar for every time someone used this phrase ...

The doomsayers have been wrong every year, and Legacy post-SCG is still more robust and widespread than it was pre-SCG. The format isn't going to die because of the Reserved List. The Reserved List is full of bad cards with a few good ones sprinkled in. Even if Aluren manages to reach $100 per copy, people can still play it. Legacy involves ponying up the money to play, and it's always been this way. Yes, I would prefer things to be cheaper, but this conversation has been had several times on these boards. I am thankful there is an effective reprint for Imperial Recruiter, which lowers the barrier to entry to an expensive niche deck.

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Originally Posted by jattra

Did they really start to print reasonable alternatives to expensive cards?

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Yes, about ten years ago, five, tops.

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Originally Posted by Cartesian

I hope that the community in time will find a way around this stupidity, because Wizards will rather just let the format die than break the RL.

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Have you considered the possibility that Wizards is printing new cards that fulfill the same niches of old cards on the Reserve List without violating it? You know, like... the exact card that prompted this discussion from Conspiracy 2?

Give it a freak'n rest, man. No, Wizards will not reprint Aluren. Yes, they probably will reprint something just like that in a supplementary set in the future. Aluren with legs? Totally fine under the Reserve List.

Relax. Relax don't do it. When you want to go to it.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

We had the same with Fork and Reveverate or Twincast. They can bent it the way they like. If they reprint LED with a tap+sac ability rather than just sac, it would be fine too. Same for the often quoted Snow Duals.

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Newp. Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies... about the Reserve list.

It prohibits functionally identical reprints. : "A card is considered functionally identical to another card if it has the same card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness."

Snow is a supertype, meaning that if the only difference between a reserve list card is the fact that it is "Snow," it violates the reserve list.

Additionally, the Fork <-> Reverberate example showed there is a limit to how close they are willing to get to a reprint. Remember, they claimed that Reverberate was a mistake. They call it the "Spirit" of the Reserve List, but what they mean in practice is apparently that if the only difference between cards is something so minor it will basically never come up in any relevant situation, then it's too close.

Now, you stay away from those issues, you're golden.

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The doomsayers have been wrong every year,

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The doomsayer is wrong every year and mocked for it, until he is not wrong, and then we are all doomed. It's the opposite of win-win.

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and Legacy post-SCG is still more robust and widespread than it was pre-SCG.

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And soon it will by post-GP as well. I guess it will be even more robust and widespread? I sure hope so.

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The format isn't going to die because of the Reserved List. The Reserved List is full of bad cards with a few good ones sprinkled in.

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Those few good cards, among them the 10 original dual lands, are an essential part of the Legacy format as we know it.
The fact that there are also bad cards on the list doesn't make a difference one way or the other.

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Even if Aluren manages to reach $100 per copy, people can still play it.

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Sure. Humans can do anything, but are they going to? That is the question, and attendance numbers the answer.

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Legacy involves ponying up the money to play, and it's always been this way.

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Well, yes. It's the amount of money, relative to the average person's income that is a strictly increasing function of time.

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I am thankful there is an effective reprint for Imperial Recruiter, which lowers the barrier to entry to an expensive niche deck.

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Sure. Until speculation on the rare 'collectible' Aluren makes it more expensive than Imperial Recruiter ever was.

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Originally Posted by Cartesian

Sure. Until speculation on the rare 'collectible' Aluren makes it more expensive than Imperial Recruiter ever was.

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Don't play that deck until they make a functional replacement for Aluren. Baddaboom baddabing.

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Originally Posted by Cartesian

The doomsayer is wrong every year and mocked for it, until he is not wrong, and then we are all doomed.

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Man, can we put this on a sandwich board? This is probably the most hilarious post I've read this year!

OK, so Step 1 is to look for the signs of impending doom, which are not apparent. Your worries seem to be triggered by the predictable buy-up of Aluren after WOTC spoiled an effective reprint of Imperial Recruiter, despite the logic that this lowers the barrier to entry. Aluren and Imperial Taxes are essentially a fraction of the price now. I see this as a good thing. I think most players are opposed to the Reserved List, but your post railing against collectibility is oddly timed.

Maybe. Sorry if that came off as too pessimistic. I thought this was the [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread.

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Originally Posted by MaximumC

Aluren with legs? Totally fine under the Reserve List.

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If it's not 3/3 or bigger it will be searchable by the combo tutors that exist already for the deck.

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Originally Posted by Begle1

The white one is probably better in a vacuum, even.

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I disagree that Recruiter of the Guard is beter than Imperial Recruiter: very notably, RotG can't find Painter's Servant. Also, my pet deck Bomberman (feat. Auriok Salvagers) would have loved a straight up colorshifted Imperial Recruiter, but alas, it is not to be.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

If they reprint LED with a tap+sac ability rather than just sac, it would be fine too.

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Yes!

Now I wish they'd hurry up and print Tabernacle Of The Veil (like classic Tabernacle but with sacrifice instead of destroy).

For whatever it's worth, they apparently regard Reverberate as a mistake and don't plan to do things like that again, so citing it as an example of their willingness to break the list seems a bit off.

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Originally Posted by Lord Seth

For whatever it's worth, they apparently regard Reverberate as a mistake and don't plan to do things like that again, so citing it as an example of their willingness to break the list seems a bit off.

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MaxC nailed it when he said the spirit of the reserved list means "That if the only difference between cards is something so minor it will basically never come up in any relevant situation, then it's too close".

So a Tabernacle that CIPT is probably too close (despite Riftstone & Urborg), but sacrificing instead of destroying is highly relevant I think. They could also change the wording so the land's controller controls the trigger.

The problem with doing this with Tabernacle or LED is that us folks with the old cards could then play extra copies. :eek:

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Originally Posted by Crimhead

The problem with doing this with Tabernacle or LED is that us folks with the old cards could then play extra copies. :eek:

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Yeah, I don't think I would mind an extra 2-4 copies of LED in Belcher. Burning Wish would be pretty sick with a stack of LEDs before I grab an Ill-Gotten Gains.

Eh. Outside of legends rule decks already don't run multiple Tabernacle. Doubt it would be overly relevant

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Eh. Outside of legends rule decks already don't run multiple Tabernacle. Doubt it would be overly relevant

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I ran two for a while, dropped back down to one. There are decks that can play more than one Tabernacle but it's not Combo Lands.