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NICEQuote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
what's your current list matt?
i really hope doran is doing some serious work there :P
btw. i seem not to get my cockatrice to work anymore, what are the server specification, and port you use? thanks for the info
To be fair, if they can bounce batterskull with this on the stack, they can bounce it with vindicate or pulse on the stack. The difference being that this still gets to kill something whereas pulse or vindicate wouldnt get to kill anything if you try to get BSkullQuote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Wouldn't they just name batterskull too before bouncing making it so this doesn't actually get anything else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
That's quite fair. But, if you're ever targeting a Batterskull with a Vindicate and they have 3 mana, unless you're actively try to get them to tap out, you have bigger problems, but you're correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
My list:
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Sylvan Library
3 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Scrubland
2 Savannah
3 Bayou
3 Wasteland
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Tropical Island
2 Doran, the Siege Tower
SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 3 Meddling Mage
Cockatrice stuff:
Host: cockatrice.woogerworks.com
Port: 4747
Username:
Password:
Make sure you register a username and password, then use those to log in.
Council's Judgment doesn't target when you place it on the stack, once the voting has been completed then the permanent is exiled as part of the spell's resolution. So if they don't bounce their Batterskull in response to Council's, you're clear to hit it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
It's similar to how Cabal Therapy names a card after it resolves.
Went X-0, then split in the finals with Elves at my local. Played some games for fun where Elves drew the nuts. Oh well.
-Matt
I had a theory (or bad idea) that I could improve Jund, by swapping red cards with white cards. I also wanted a break from playing Miracles after playing it for the last 2 months. So I took this mistake riddled list with me to a 42 person local tournament and lost in the top 4.
I thought I could take the Jund shell that is good against most fair strategies(Miracles and Delver), and swap the red cards for hate bears in my SB to beat combo. You also gain access to better ways to fight TNN by flying over it with Spirit tokens, putting a SoFI on a creature or casting Zealous Persecution.
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
3 Bayou
3 Scrubland
1 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thougthseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Lingering Souls
Sideboard:
1 Life from the Loam
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Lingering Souls
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Golgari Charm
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Surgical Extraction
Round 1: Win Miracless 2-0
Round 2: Win RUG Delver 2-1
Round 3: Win Miracles 2-0
Round 4: ID with a friend who was playing Miracles (I did the tie breaker math :P)
Round 5: Win Elves 2-1
Round 6: ID with Merfolk
Quarterfinals: Win Miracles 2-0
Semifinals: Lost AnT 0-2
This was only a test tournament for me, so I would need more matches against combo and Delver to see if my ideas are actually good.
The weaknesses that I immediately recognize are:
1) The Plains was the worst land in the deck. Throughout the tournament I found myself getting color screwed a lot and the biggest offender was the basic Plains that could not cast BB cards or cast green spells. Cut the Plains for a Scrubland or Savannah.
2) The sideboard probably needs a Duress as a 5th one mana discard spell, so maybe cut the Hymn to Tourach for a Duress.
3) A 23rd land might help as well, as I found myself getting suck on 2 lands a lot. Another fetchland?
Without batterskull I could see you cutting a stone forge or two
The basic Plains is the worst land in the deck, I'll agree, but it does allow you to cast SFM against the Tempo decks and allow you to guarantee Vialing in Equipment the next turn, assuming they don't kill it.
I run 2 Swamps, 1 Forest, and 1 Plains as my basic package, and so far, it's been fine. I'm on the 3 Bayou, 2 Scrubland, 2 Savannah ratio for my list because that's closest to ideal. I usually used Tapped Out to figure out mana ratios, but it seems to be broken at the moment.
-Matt
The basic plains did ensure that I could cast Stoneforge Mystic and multiple Swords to Plowshares against my RUG Delver opponent. Although I think I could have avoided that situation if I mulliganed a hand with only 1 Plains and Wasteland as lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Based on suggestions and yesterday, here is what I would sleeve up if I decided to play Junk again,
1 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Bayou
4 Scrubland
1 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thougthseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Lingering Souls
Sideboard:
1 Life from the Loam
1 Duress
1 Lingering Souls
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Golgari Charm
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
Are other top8 players decklists posted somewhere?
greetings
Jakub
Played this is my local shop to split first:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
3 Lingering Souls
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Wasteland
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Savannah
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Forest
Sb:
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Pithing Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Choke
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Engineered Plague
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Path to Exile
1 Krosan Grip
1 Rest In Peace
1 Surgical Extraction
As I was biking to the store I saw a truck that said "1-800-GOT-JUNK"? on the side, and I knew I would be walking away with a wins (or at least split).
Round 1 Beat Storm 2-1
Post board games was able to find RIP in g2 and Surgical a thoguhtseized LED in g3.
Round 2 I beat 4 Color Loam (Kronberger Style) in 2-0
He had particularly bad draws, I hymned a grove and a punishing fire g1, got ahead on board with stoneforge and Bob. G2, He had a slow start as well, and by the time he played Liliana, I had a lingering souls in hand. Pretty soon I was swinging away with 6 spirits and a batterskull and he had no outs.
Round 3: Painter/Bomberman (draw, but in fun games go 0-2)
This guy is a brewer if I ever met one, he tries to only play original decks.
G1: He plays Seat of the Synod, Mox opal, LED, and Sensei's top. I durdle trying to play enough creatures to put early pressure on, but he finds grindstone and painter. G2 he just naturals grindstone and painter super early and I have a lili, bob and DRS and can't do anything.
It was awesome moneying for the second week in a row not playing Jund. I played Team Italia last time, Junk this time, and my local meta has been ripe for lingering souls.
In case you missed it, a Junk deck with Mana Tithe and Sinkhole split the finals at Knightware:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-FOW-Wasteland
I've been tinkering a bit with Spirit of the Labyrinth in BWG. I have had some success using Thalia + Wasteland + 1 CMC disruption to cut off the advantage of cantrips in Dega, but I don't like playing Thalia with Souls, Liliana, and Abrupt Decay — makes all my impact spells too expensive. I've really liked what I've seen from Spirit in some recent SCG matches. Chris Jeffries was a land or STP away from beating CVM's T1 Griselbrand off a mull to 6 on the draw, and of course Shiels dropped the hammer on Elves' draw engines with it.
Pros:
—3 power is a pretty good clock
—Cuts off up to 8 cards in standard Delver builds
—Also helps negate the advantage of JTMS, Griselbrand, Elves
—Doesn't affect any cards in our deck unless you're big on Sylvan Library
—Mainboard hatebear for combo
Cons:
—1 toughness
—Too late to beat early cantrips
—Doesn't do anything against Counterbalance-Top or TNN
—Probably not too good on the draw
—No evasion
I like Sylvan but Mirri's Guile or Top + Bob can make it so that we get a lot of card selection/advantage while the cantrip police is out.
I just really like how it complements cards like Thoughtseize and Wasteland while slamming in for 3 a turn. I find that a lot of times I get my disruption going early against the fair blue decks but then I can't close things out fast enough before they just cantrip into answers. It may be difficult to punish bad keeps with Spirit (though T1 DRS, T2 Waste your only land, play Spirit can be a thing), but what it can do is really gum up the late game against decks that are depending on their card selection advantage to win.
I went to a tournament last Sunday and went 1-2 drop. I lost a close match against Sneak and Show (which I would say is or can be our worst matchup) but Meddling Mages were great. I then won against Infect, and lost to Patriot, which I realistically never should.
This was the first time I'd lost to Patriot in sanctioned Legacy, so it felt kind of bad, but I just drew super poorly and my opponent drew the everything. I really liked the Meddling Mage splash, so I'll try sticking with it at least for a little while longer.
My list for reference:
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Sylvan Library
3 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Scrubland
2 Savannah
3 Bayou
3 Wasteland
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Underground Sea
2 Doran, the Siege Tower
SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 3 Meddling Mage
Its okay. I lost to RUG last week with Deadguy for the first time and was amazed. It happens. Such is variance.
Sweet list though. I like Meddling Mage, and I also like how you get a 4th color to play your SB EE's if it becomes really necessary.
As for Spirit of the Labyrinth, I think the card is solid and very playable, I'm just not sure how much I really like the ability in the Main. I am thinking of getting into Junk a bit and thought about playing it. Meh.
I'm not sure if I like sinkhole in a deck that isn't pox/prison... When that delver is beating face I think I'd miss having more abrupt decay. Pretty interesting list though, maybe sinkhole is a metagame choice?Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
Split top 4 of the Philadelphia Legacy Series 40 duals tournament to finally finish my playset of blue duals :cool:
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Bayou
3 Scrubland
1 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thougthseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Lingering Souls
Sideboard:
1 Life from the Loam
1 Duress
1 Lingering Souls
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Golgari Charm
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
The fetchlands should be more Marsh Flats, but I somehow accidentally left my Marsh Flats at home.
Round 1: Lost to Manaless Dredge
Round 2: Win vs UW Stoneblade(Joe Bernal UW Blade)
Round 3: Win vs Punishing Maverick
Round 4: Win vs UG 12 Post
Round 5: Win vs Jund Scapeshift
Round 6: Win vs High Tide
Round 7: ID
Top 8: Win vs Burn
Hail, fellow Junkfolk.
I've been spending some time lately reading the latest news on this thread, and I have a couple questions for you guys.
I've noticed a very high number of Stoneforge lists without Batterskull, and I'm curious why so many of us are leaving out Batterskull. It can't just be the 5 life from Bob, so I figure its either how useful you are finding Swords of X and Y, or just steep cost when your Stoneforge dies. Maybe someone could share their reasoning with me. I am aware of how obtuse a non-forged Batterskull can be when its stuck in your hand, but the upside of having the possibility of a cheap Batterskull almost always seems worth the potential downsides, in my opinion.
I'm also curious to hear some arguments for Doran. I love Doran, but I almost never put him in a final list. Buffing your Goyfs, Stoneforges, and even Deathrites is a fine ability, and nowadays I suppose he mitigates True-Name's combat effectiveness. But is Doran really what this deck wants (assuming blind meta, that likely includes some Delver, Esper, Sneak and Show, Storm, Miracles, the usuals)? Loxodon Smiter is a similarly costed beater that also has some very serious upsides, there's Knight (which changes the nature of the deck a bit), Lingering Souls, and probably some other threats that I'm forgetting that fill the 3 slot nicely.
Thanks in advance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-101
So for me, Batterskull is a fine card, but there's a lot of hate out there for it. Having it stranded when Stoneforge dies can be a real issue for this deck, since we can't Brainstorm it back into the deck. As well, testing found that I rarely want to go for Batterskull, and here are some cases why.
1) I'm playing against TNN.deck, so I usually want Sword of Fire and Ice as soon as possible since it's hard to beat a TNN otherwise. Plus, even if SFM dies, I can cast and Equip on Turn 5, or Drop on Turn 3 and attack on Turn 4 while equipped.
2) I'm playing against weenies, like Elves, Goblins, or Death and Taxes. I'll go for Jitte here.
3) I'm playing against a Control deck, like Miracles. I'll grab either SoFI if I expect that I'll have a singular creature against a Jace which can bounce it otherwise, or SoLaS to be protected against STP and hopefully recur stuff.
4) I'm playing against a BGx mirror, especially something like Shardless BUG. I will likely grab SOFI if they're on the Shardless + Baleful Strix play, but I can grab SoLaS if they're on the DRS + Strix plan to swing past and/or be Decay-proof.
5) I'm behind and my opponent has Batterskull, I'll get SoLaS to either block the Batterskull, or swing past BS and the SFM to connect.
Realistically, there's few times I want to go for Batterskull. Even against Burn, I likely just go for Jitte since they'll kill my SFM anyway.
As for Doran, he's a 5/5 for 3, so he comes out on Turn 2 at times. He buffs Goyfs and makes sure they don't bounce (this happened last night). He neuters TNN, and makes my other creatures like DRS and SFM bigger. The main problem with Smiter is that he's only a 4/4 and that he doesn't do anything else. He can't swing past a TNN. Sure, he doesn't get countered and is good against Liliana, but he doesn't do anything else. Lingering Souls is up there with Doran in playability since it combos well with Liliana and can harass Planeswalkers a bit easier, but again, it is susceptible to graveyard hate. If you don't like Doran, I'd run Lingering Souls.
And last night, I split for first at my weekly with my usual list, besting Dredge, Mono Black Control, Shardless BUG and splitting with Tin Fins.
-Matt
Played Junk today at the Channel Fireball monthly 1K, and here's a mini tournament report.
I decided to give Doran a try. I used to play him in Modern, where Knights never get Wastelands, and Lingering Souls cannot carry Jittes, but I felt that Doran wasn't man enough to brawl in Legacy. But now it looks like True-Name and Deathrite are enough to push him over the threshold of "good enough."
List:
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Doran, the Siege Tower
4x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sylvan Library
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Marsh Flats
1x Windswept Heath
2x Bayou
1x Savannah
2x Scrubland
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Swamp
1x Horizon Canopy
4x Wasteland
SB:
1x Manriki-Gusari
2x Diabolic Edict
1x Sylvan Library
2x Qasali Pridemage
4x Hymn to Tourach
3x Spirit of the Labyrinth
2x Zealous Persecution
Round 1 vs U/R
I win 2/0. I didn't see any Delvers, but they HAD to be in there. Bolts, PoPs, Goblin Guides just weren't enough for gigantic Tarmogoyfs, and the 2nd Deathrite. In game 2 I pulled ahead fairly early, but Doran having 4 toughness did save him from being Fire Blasted. I feel like with Deathrite, Light and Shadow, and Jitte, this match up heavily favors Junk. Also, he didn't cast Delver, which is the deck's best non-Brainstorm card.
Round 2 vs Goblins
I win 2/1. I know my opponent is on Goblins; he nearly always plays that deck. 1 game goes to each of us, and in game 3, I get bashed repeatedly by Lackey AND the Doublestrike Lackey... but he only makes 2 War Marshals out of the exchange. He gets land flooded, and I cycle Horizon Canopy into a Goyf, and then get Qasali and SoFaI. I end up at 3, and attack for 11 with Goyf plus Sworded up Qasali, make that 13 with a Zealous Persecution.
Round 3 vs Oops/Belcher
I win 2/1. I know he is on Oops, and saw him board into Belcher in previous rounds. Game 1 I'm on the play, and get a 6 card hand with Deathrite, Liliana, 4 lands. I play Deathrite, he Probes me and says "WOW, turn 2 Liliana is REDICULOUS." He is absolutely correct, but if I go turn 2 Liliana, I wont have open Deathrite for Angel of Glory's Rise, so I peck away at his Probes, turn 4 Liliana, and he's forced to attempt to go off, and I Deathrite his Angel. Game 2 I get Belchered. Game 3 I don't have Deathrite, but he's still on Belcher anyways. Inquisition and 2 Hymns later, his hand is trashed, and I start making Goyfs, which eat him.
Round 4 vs Midrange BUG
I lose 2/0. My opponent is a good player. He plays correctly, and beats me. He wasn't on Delver, but wasn't quite your typical BUG control either.
Round 5 vs Jund
I win 2/0. Game 1 I stabilize at 1 life, Pulse both our Bobs away. Stoneforge for SoFaI kills him the turn before he draws Lightning Bolt. Game 2 was a slaughter. He misses his 2nd land drop, and I kill his Deathrite. Bob draws him another land, but I waste it. I end up with 3 Deathrites, a Stoneforge, SoFaI, and Jitte. I use Jitte to kill one of my own Deathrites, because it was the target of his Pulse, and he dies.
Round 6 vs Manaless Dredge
ID. I know my opponent is higher seeded than me, and there is a slim chance that an ID will knock me out, but it's a very slim chance. I get food, and soda, and I'm in Top 8.
Quarterfinals vs UBGW Deathblade
I lose 2/1. I know what my opponent is on, but he is on the play (he's 4th, I'm 5th). He is a very good player, and I'm not sure I've ever beat him. Game 1 I get Doran vs his True-Names, but he eventually gets me anyways. He has Swords to Plowshares, Abrupt Decay and Snapcaster in his deck, which destroys my Goyfs, and eventually Doran falls. Game 2 he mulls to 6, and I get a pretty decent opener of Turn 2 Qasali, Turn 3 Liliana discard, follow up with Goyf and Wasteland, and he scoops. Game 3 goes super long. Zealous Persecutions get a couple True-Names, but eventually we're passing back and forth with 6-7 land, occasionally Swordsing or Decaying each other's topdecked creatures. He gets Batterskull with 8 mana and Deathrite. Qasali can only slow the bleeding, and I realize I've boarded out my Sword of Light and Shadow, which was stupid, because the token is black. Eventually I die to a Jitted up Batterskull.
------------------------
Not a terrible performance for being out of the game for a bit, and I'll definitely run Doran again (at least while True-Name is still so popular). There were many BUG and UWR decks running it, I just didn't play against many. I still think that Batterskull needs to be in the deck if there's Stoneforge. It can be clunky, certainly, but I think it's worth it. The turn 3s it creates, as well as the ultra-strong late-game potential seem worth it IMO. Qasali was awesome, I'd like to add a third somewhere, and possibly some in the main. Though I didn't get much mileage out of Spirit of the Labyrinth today, I also only played against 2 blue decks, so I'm going to give it another chance. Zealous Persecution over Golgari Charm also seems fine. Of course, if you're expecting more Show and Tell and Supreme Verdict, charm is better... but if you're expecting those... why are you playing Junk in that tournament? Charm is certainly a good card, but ZP is too, and I'll stick with that one for now.