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For Fauna Shaman you could try 3 Concordant Crossroads to turn it into a semi-SotF. Just make sure you run 4 Quirion Rangers and 4 Wirewood Symbiote and you're almost ready to run 4 Vengevine.
I'm not sure if that's still strong enough to get the job done though.
I really do not like Shaman that much, as I feel it does not win games you are actually losing, while winning only games you're already winning. That's why I prefer WRP, which is usually better at the job. Also, if I put KotR in, the 3-manas winning target is here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nargoron
Hoof is also not that good, I cannot see myself playing more than a copy even with 4 NOs, because often even if it can be lethal, a couple of answers are possible. In these cases, I often go for a target which put my opponent in a terrible board state, even if he has answers that can trump a hoof. I will of course always play one, it is that good I do not think I ever desided it, but I do certainly not want a second one.
During this WE, my most common NO target was Titania (and I didn't lose a single game were I had it on board at one point), then Ruric, hoof and Wurm (about each of them came as often as the others). But Regal? Be it GSZ or NO, I didn't search for it a single time.
Not completely, before DRS, the Fauna-VV lists were pretty strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nargoron
But the fauna proposition was for the fun list, not for an optimized one ;)
In it I can see myself even trying some copies of chord, or eledamri's call.
I guess my answers or comments may look a bit messy, because on one hand I speak about slots that interest me in the building of an "optimized, competitive" deck (i.e. 61 cards max), on the other hand, of slots that interest me for my elf list with a longer list. Play this last one for a good laugh (and still quite a shot at very good results), not if you really only care about the highest chances of winning.
Concordant crossroads is not playable if beside fun, you also want a shot at having good results, clearly. It is a quite bad card. Fauna can be a one off that can be tutored T2, and give you a running WS-EV engine T3. Worth trying (in the fun, big list).
There are situation when you combo in huge number of dudes but with summoning sickness and you HAVE to win this turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
But yea , i didnt win much game with him.
No love for safekeeper if u like titania?Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
Thats exactly what iam missing on ,,Chaos" elves... next tutors, next strong card, becouse without NO you lose 3-4 tutors.Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
hundreds of cards are good, even winning silver bullets in some situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nargoron
This goes for both SotP, safekeeper and chord.
They are playable of course, and SotP is even OK, especially if you do not play NO as you need some raw power.
About chord: if you're missing NO, why not to play one? You can just play one NO in chaos elves, even if you unfortunately draw both of your one-of, it can tutor WRP.
These are my theoretical concerns about the cards you mentioned.
They won't prevent me to try a couple of chord and/or eladamri's call in my fatty list, though. They look like interesting cards to play with, additional tutors at instant speed.
i already did :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
my list is:
2xbayou
2xCavern of souls
2xForest
4xGaea's Cradle
1xPendelhaven
1xVerdant Catacomb
2xWindswept Heath
4xWooded Foothills
1xDryad Arbor
2xBirchlore rangers
1xCraterhoof Behemoth
4xDeathrite shaman
4xElvish Visionary
3xHeritage Druid
4xNettle Sentinel
4xQuirion Ranger
1XReclamation Sage
4xWirewood symbiote
1xWren's Run Packmaster
1x Sylvan Library
2xChord of Calling
1xCrop Rotation
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Glimpse of Nature
+ 61th card: SoPt or give a try with titania? :) but probably she needs more fetchs/rotations...
edit: ofc zenith is included... just forget to write :P
Nice list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nargoron
If I just had to add a 61st card to your list, it would be Knight of the reliquary. It is amazingly good against Eldrazi - being bigger than their threats, untapping with it against miracle give you access to Cavern of souls, but mostly your 2x Chord 4x GSZ makes you mana-hungry, and a beast able to give you 2-3 Cradle T3-4 is worth considering.
Otherwise I think 7 fetch + a crop should be enough for give a shot at Titania, but without Wastelands to recur and NOs to get Titania, it won't be as good as it was in my strange thing.
2 Chord of Challing but no Green Sun's Zenith..? Did you forget those..? Do I need to call Lemnear..? What's going on here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nargoron
Here's an Elves deck tech video Yannick Salomon recorded with me at #BoMAnnecy, check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqmGIF0IoZ8
You also missed the glimpse absence ��Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Isn't Lemnear always begging for the elf players to be innovative?
@Julian: Interesting to see you drop the anti-combo team of Thalia and Teeg. The Chord and Call ideas of recent posts would make it easier to find Thalia, but I guess you're banking on the meta not making the white cards necessary.
yea i missed entire sorcery block :DQuote:
Originally Posted by dte
(probably confused by instant block , its not cammon to have ,,block" of instants in elves ^^ )
KoTR is cute.. BUTQuote:
Originally Posted by dte
for being bigger then eldrazi - he needs to spent lots of time in the game to be able do that and still dont be tapped
yea some triple acctivation per turn with quirion and symbiot could be awesome but without wastelands KoTr is just not enough good in my oppinion :(
yea double cradle idea looks pretty cool, but there is too much condition. The first problem is, that if you spent your zenith for Kotr, you dont have for what spent double cradle mana
and fetch for cavern is little bit naive, cose how long KoTr survive against Miracles?
We dont have mother to keep him alive, so thats drive me back to SotP. He has more synergy with rest of the deck then KotR
edit:
Chord was replaced by 2 copies of Natural order, becouse chord is good when play go well, sucks when u r screwed...
Which drive me to switch SotP for Ruric and basic forest for taiga...
Hey everyone, here my report from the BOM Annecy:
It was my first BOM and the biggest event I went, the only other event was the legacy France cup last year. I didn’t play legacy since October so I went with elves obviously (best deck ^^), I decided to play the chaos elves but switch to the Natural Oder version the night before the event due to Eldrazi, I was expected a lot of them.
So here we go:
R1 – turbo depth : 2-1 against someone I play at my store (all this km for nothing). Game 1, he went T1 explore to T3 the 20/20 monster, I tried to win with a glimpse but drew 2 lands which lost me the game. Game 2 was really quick, T2 glimpse to NO Craterhoof. Game 3, he kept an awkward hand with toxic deluge, engineered plague and 4 lands, win t3 with NO.
R2 – 4C Delver: 2-1, hey another one for my home. Game 1, he bolt or counter nearly every creature, after some turn the best friend combo drew me to many cards for him to interact and win with a hard cast Behemoth after a counter on NO. Game 2, mull to 5 card without a land in my first 3 hands to 0 to the last hand; drew my fetch on the 3 turn but it took stifle, quick shuffle to game 3. Game 3, counter my t1 deathrite, t2 1 deathrite + symbiote, t3 decay his flip delver, he couldn’t attack with his TNN because of my elves and he was countering all my spells, deathrite won the game.
R3 – Shardless : 1-1 Game 1, I land a deathrite after his own, he put 2 more on the battlefield and start to kill all my creatures with decay, dismember and my life with his deathrite, I was blocked on 1 land. Game 2, I let him destroy my elves and resolved an ooze for the win. Game 3, he resolved a grafdigger’s cage but my decay was already on his flip delver; time was call and he countered my only windows to win: reclamation sage with 2 NO in hand.
R4 – Miracles : 2-0 Game 1, I only saw 3 sword + 1 rest in peace so i was putting him on a UW Control side in decay, library and choke. Game 2, he countered my 2 first elves and resolved a T3 counterbalance (miracles :eyebrow: ), I attacked him with 3 elves by turn, at one point he tried to find a terminus on my combat steps but only found a sword, I slammed choke with only a fetch untap and no cards in hand, it was game.
R5 – Blue red control: 1-2 Game 1, T2 engineered explosives T3 Blood moon; I wasn’t expecting this, he burned my elves with fire//ice, I resolved a T6 Ruric, next game. Game 2 and 3 felt hopless between the fire//ice, snapcaster to replay them, and sudden demise. This deck is an horrible matchup for elf.
R6 – Shardless : 2-0 Game 1 and 2 were really quick, nothing to say.
R7 – Mix between pox and 8 rack : 2-1 Game 1 T1 zenith for dryad, he played innocent blood, T2 Liliana of the veil, T3 and T4 pox, T5 and T6 sinkhole. Game 2, library and ooze won me the game after an engineered plague on elves. Game 3 T1 liliana ok, I played T1 pithing needle, the next turns he only played land, library help me to filter and win 2 turns after. He showed me his side against elves : 4 engineered plague, 2 toxic deluge and 2 perish, I was happy that he didn’t drew perish.
R8 – UWR Delver : 2-1 Game 1 was a quick glimpse with 2 NO. Game 2, 2 flip delver with counter and burn backup, was finished quickly. Game 3, 2 deathrite + quirion ranger won me the game after the counters and burn spells.
R9 – BUG delver : 1-2 This was the most pathetic lost for me, biggest misplay which lost me the 10th place. Game 1, I kept with 1 bayou, 1 deathrite 1 glimpse, 2 NO and 1 Nettle and 1 heritage; I went with t1 deathrite against his t1 dismember, t2 waste bayou, followed up by me not drawing lands. I should’ve mulligan this hand but was to exhaust :frown:. Game 2 was a quick win. Game 3, mana screwed again but played my elves, he drew a timely golgari charm to kill my elves, he was dead on the next turn with NO.
Finished 34, at 2 steps of 32 and the BOM points but it was my fault and could’ve finished 10.
I didn’t play against Eldrazi so I don’t know if NO or Chaos elves is better.
It was a fun tournament, I’ve met Julian and saw DTE again with his crazy list, it was nice to speak with him and win with his TIN FIN against his elves toolbox.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask. (sorry for my English guys).
I'll post a more detailed report next week after MKM Frankfurt, but here's my matchups from BoM Annecy:
R1: 2-1 WIN vs TinFins
R2: 2-1 WIN vs Fauna Shaman Maverick (Feature Match)
R3: 2-0 WIN vs 4c Delver
R4: 1-2 LOSS vs UWr Delver (he had tested vs "my list" a lot and decided to add lots of Lavamancers :cry: )
R5: 2-1 WIN vs Death's Shadow
R6: 2-1 WIN vs Canadian Threshold
R7: 2-1 WIN vs Miracles
R8: 2-1 WIN vs Miracles
R9: 0-2 LOSS vs ANT(Win-And-In Feature Match)
7-2 for 19th out of 302 players
Here's the list I played:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Heritage Druid
3 Quirion Ranger
2 Birchlore Rangers
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Craterhoof Behemooth
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wren’s Run Packmaster
1 Shaman of the Pack
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Gaea’s Cradle
2 Bayou
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Pendelhaven
Sideboard
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Choke
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Winter Orb
1 Null Rod
Was very happy with the deck. Pretty much beat all the matchups I was supposed to beat. The loss against UWr Delver didn't feel good, but at least I tried and won every game he didn't start with turn1 Lavamancer ;-)
More extensive report scheduled for next week! It was so awesome to meet so many of you guys in person in Annecy <3
So I can't apply my own sig here cause I don't yet know the deck well enough (at least I got Cradle #3 yesterday!) but is there any room to have a "half-chaos" or transformational deck where the NOs can be either moved in or out of the side, or having just 2ish in the main? I imagine it doesn't work because no one's done it and I doubt the idea is that novel. Any thoughts?
I would probably have keep your hand too, not that many 6s are better than that. BUG has very few 1 mana removal MD, usually no more than 1-2.Quote:
Originally Posted by chewemy
Not sure that you lost because your mulligan decision was bad or because your opponent's hand was really good against yours, which happens. It was a pleasure seeing you!
May you tell us more about jitte? It seems hard to put counters on it without losing a creature, it is good enough to be worth it nevertheless?Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
Also, why did you decide to use winter orb over pithing needle?
And can you tell us how and against which MUs Garruk is that good that it kept being in your SB?
I'm pretty sure it can work. The idea is not that novel, but it has definitely been done. The thing is, that NO is a very polarized card: an empty sleeve in some (common) MUs, your best card against others. When I play a "classic" elves, I usually put 4 NOs main to save SB space and because it is really that good vs ANT (less than Teeg, though). But post SB, the most common numbers are 0-2.Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbysdl
My experience:Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
I tried one in SB and against delver is rly amazing. Ok first loading probably cause you to sacrifice one elf. But when is jitte loaded? 4/5 Goyf looks little and tiny :) cose your 1/1 can kill him.
DnT is next great MU for jitte and even miracles can jitte shine as superstar, cose your 1/1 is now much more danger. Often force opponent to waste teminus only cose of one mana dork.
Got second at a 1k this afternoon with the following list.
Creatures:30
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Birchlore Rangers
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
Spells:12
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
Lands:18
2 Bayou
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
Sideboard:15
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wren's Run Packmaster
1 Progenitus
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Null Rod
1 Sylvan Library
I knew the field was going to be pretty heavily BGx, so I tailored the SB to include a WRP, which I found myself loving while testing out Julian's Chaos lists. I didn't miss pendelhaven at all- the ninth fetch ended up allowing me to operate cleanly through a blood moon and around wastelands all day, but it was purely a metagame call. Moving forward I might end up running one, but am considering a second cavern in its place. I understand that it's a little more conservative than a lot more recent lists but I'm pretty set in stone about 8 fetches, 4 cradles, and two each of arbor, forest, and bayou. In the matchups where cavern is impactful(counterbalance/chalice) you realllly want to see it, and since I'm running the full four NO it is very important to be able to resolve a critical mass of elves. I'll miss the occasional point of damage or favorable trade from a quick +1/+2, but I'm not entirely sure it's better than a second Cavern.
I wanted to ask to Julian what is his side-plan against miracle with his list...
And where can I find the video of mkm series frankfurt?
Thanks
Julian, thanks for posting your list and the deck tech video. After watching and reading, I decided to try your list for my first large legacy event at the SCG Indy. I went 5-2 in matches played and drew into the top 32 (our breakers were bad and neither of us would have made top 16 with a win). I lost to storm that went off turn 2 in both games (I may have made a mulligan mistake in game 2; still pondering if I would keep again) and Dark Maverick 2-1 thanks to his 4 Wasteland draw beating my mull to 5. I won against Nic Fit, Jund, Miracles, Dredge and Merfolk. I made a ton of mistakes on the day, so might have picked up another win if I had played tighter.
Overall, I really like this version of the deck. Jitte was an all-star, as was Cavern of Souls in the Miracles matchup. I look forward to continue trying this list out and hearing your more detailed report.
Sorry I haven't been able to answer a lot of questions lately. I'm thinking about doing a mailbag article like Bryant often does, but I've been really busy over the last 1-2 months. There's big things to come. Sooner than you expect. Be prepared :)
On related news, I haven't finished my Annecy report yet. Ok, that was a nice way of putting it. I haven't even had time to start it yet, but the overall structure has already been laid out in my head. I will probably merge it with my MKM Frankfurt report, where I played last week, but let's see. For now, here's the "raw data":
R1: *BYE*
R2: 1-2 LOSS vs BUG Thing in the Icea, because I'm stupid and would rather check the artwork than textbox for abilities.
R3: 2-0 WIN vs Eldrazis
R4: 2-1 WIN vs Belcher
R5: 2-0 WIN vs BUG Delver
R6: 2-0 WIN vs 4c Delver
R7: 2-0 WIN vs Esper Humility Control with Chalices and Sword Combo
R8: 1-2 LOSS vs ANT
R9: 2-0 WIN vs ANT
R10: 2-0 WIN vs BUG Pod (74/75 similar to Jonas' Top8 list; no Broodmate Dragon)
8-2 for 19th out of 420+ players. Missed Top16 on Tiebreakers.
Here's the list I played in the Main Event:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Heritage Druid
3 Quirion Ranger
2 Birchlore Rangers
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Craterhoof Behemooth
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wren’s Run Packmaster
1 Shaman of the Pack
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Gaea’s Cradle
2 Bayou
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Pendelhaven
Sideboard
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Choke
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Null Rod
On Sunday I played in the playoffs of the Legacy Super Finals of the 2015 season. I reasearched all qualified players the night before to predict the metagame and build my deck/sideboard appropriately. I expected a field with a heavily Miracles pressence, but also some 4c Delver and Lands. I expected almost literally zero combo, so these are the changes I made to the above list for that special meta:
-1 Umezawa's Jitte
+1 Llanowar Elves
And this sideboard:
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Pithing Needle
2 Choke
2 Garruk Relentless
Needless to say my round 1 opponent, whom my researched had put on Miracles, started the game with turn1 Swamp into Duress. #FML
Here's how the event went for me:
Round of 16: 2-1 WIN vs ANT
Quarters: 2-0 WIN vs 4c Delver (was it 2:1?)
Semis: 2-1 WIN vs BG HexDepths
Finals: 1-2 LOSS vs RGb Lands
The finals was one of the most amazing matches of Magic I ever played. The surrounding spectators were losing their minds that there wasn't video coverage of it. More in my actual article, but here's a preview: game2 I passed for about 7 turns with just 4 lands and no creatures or Planeswalkers in play. Then I killed my opponent. No, without Glimpse. Yes, it was crazy :) Would have loved to win the MKM contract sponsorship that was up for grabs, but I'll try again next season :)