Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Random question I've got. I finally decided to pick up Mystics alongside Jitte which gives me the complete Stoneforge package (already have Batterskull and all swords). Does a SFM build even need Rhinos? What if instead of Rhinos it included more creatures which generate CA like Tireless Trackers. Would that be a reasonable thing to do?
Edit: I should give a list.
Land 22
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
Creatures 18
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Dark Confidant
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Courser of Kruphix
Artifact 7
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Spells 12
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Path to Exile
1 Vindicate
Enchantment 2
2 Pernicious Deed
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
I'd play -2 Confidant +1 Sigarda +1 GSZ. Looks great though. Tracker, Top, Courser is ridiculous once assembled. Even if it's answered, the card advantage is off the hook
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Well, we're coming to the conclusion Rhino isn't good enough anymore. Batterskull does allow you to go bigger than Rhino, and what's ever bad about CA? Especially if that CA can become bigger than Rhino when left unanswered for too long.
One little nitpick though - your manabase isn't 22 lands, it's 21. Dryad Arbor should be considered a creature. It simply doesn't behave as the other 21 do.
Keep that in mind whenever you find it in your opening hand. Don't accidentally manascrew yourself by misjudging its role.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TTX
I'd play -2 Confidant +1 Sigarda +1 GSZ. Looks great though. Tracker, Top, Courser is ridiculous once assembled. Even if it's answered, the card advantage is off the hook
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Confidant works well, particularly when you have enough stuff to also draw removal. His interaction with Top is about equal to Coursers, but he has a stronger effect without Top at the expense of being lower mana and a weaker body.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
Well, we're coming to the conclusion Rhino isn't good enough anymore. Batterskull does allow you to go bigger than Rhino, and what's ever bad about CA? Especially if that CA can become bigger than Rhino when left unanswered for too long.
One little nitpick though - your manabase isn't 22 lands, it's 21. Dryad Arbor should be considered a creature. It simply doesn't behave as the other 21 do.
Keep that in mind whenever you find it in your opening hand. Don't accidentally manascrew yourself by misjudging its role.
I'm aware of it's role, there's a lot of tricks involved with it. I do tend to think of it as more of a land than a creature though because I often GSZ for it (probably more than I should). GSZ+Arbor lets you cheat the land count and get away with 21-22 lands. Here I'm a little more interested in it being a creature which is why I went with a Misty Rainforest as fetch #9 but it's still very much both.
Actually, at our Thursday night Legacy event I had some Dryad Arbor tricks going on. Was looping Arbor alongside Courser and Volrath's to chump block forever. That interaction has come up far more often than I thought it would. At one point I even played a green fetch with nothing to search and then Volrath's Arbor just so I could fetch for it and get in a shuffle.
Anyways, I consider Arbor to be a land specifically because I arbor ramp whenever I have 2 or fewer lands and no way to kill an Explorer... a situation that comes up a lot. Using Arbor as a land gives you the early game consistency of a 26 land deck and the lategame consistency of a 21 land deck.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
@Brael, I'm not sure how much you pay attention to the thread, but if you search for SFM lists you'd find the majority of them haven't been running Rhino for months. If they do only as their four drop silver bullet slot, not a game plan. I personally prefer Meren or Thrun in that slot but if TNN and pyromancer tokens become very popular again then a rhino could come back.
It seems to me you're really asking if we need to play 4 drops at all. Which is a more interesting question. I currently think so because Vet is still our main gameplan, with SFM just supplementing it. You're also runing considerably less interaction than would make me comfortable. But it's you list and not mine :P
That dryad abor play you speak of makes it a llanowar elf not a land. If it dies to one mana removal, it's a mana dork not a land.
Edit: From your list I would cut 1 Scooze (haven't needed him in a long time) 1 SFM (4 is too many, she's not amazing against all of the format, and we don't mind if we draw her late) 1 courser (still think the card is bad and tracker should just replace it for anyone that thought it was good) 1 Top
Add 2 TS (you have low interaction as it is, and you're relying on more fragile creatures so you want to take their removal) and 1 decay/path/stp and the last Gsun.
You can also consider cutting deed (bad with clue tokens and so many low drops..) and change it for deluge or more pin point removal.. also going big maverick and switching the DRS/Vet numbers around. That said, you aren't really big maverick because you do don't have anything that costs more than 3...
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jain_Mor
@Brael, I'm not sure how much you pay attention to the thread, but if you search for SFM lists you'd find the majority of them haven't been running Rhino for months. If they do only as their four drop silver bullet slot, not a game plan. I personally prefer Meren or Thrun in that slot but if TNN and pyromancer tokens become very popular again then a rhino could come back.
I pay attention to it, but I don't memorize SFM lists, until I ordered SFM's last week I didn't pay much attention to something I could only play on xmage. But with white clearly being the best third color still and Rhino's not cutting it, I figured I should look at SFM.
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It seems to me you're really asking if we need to play 4 drops at all. Which is a more interesting question. I currently think so because Vet is still our main gameplan, with SFM just supplementing it. You're also runing considerably less interaction than would make me comfortable. But it's you list and not mine :P
Rhino is the best 4 drop, and it's not cutting it. That says to me that you either go bigger, or go smaller.
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That dryad abor play you speak of makes it a llanowar elf not a land. If it dies to one mana removal, it's a mana dork not a land.
It's both, it's closest to a CIPT land, or perhaps a Mutavault with card types rather than creature types.
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Edit: From your list I would cut 1 Scooze (haven't needed him in a long time) 1 SFM (4 is too many, she's not amazing against all of the format, and we don't mind if we draw her late) 1 courser (still think the card is bad and tracker should just replace it for anyone that thought it was good) 1 Top
I'm not at all opposed to adding more interaction, though I don't think I'm that low on it, I have 12 cards that interact. Thoughtseize sounds good but I disagree with those cuts. I suppose I just need to play SFM and see what I do and don't like.
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You can also consider cutting deed (bad with clue tokens and so many low drops..) and change it for deluge or more pin point removal.. also going big maverick and switching the DRS/Vet numbers around. That said, you aren't really big maverick because you do don't have anything that costs more than 3...
I've been playing Tracker for I think 2 months now and the deed/clue token interaction has never come up. Low drops on the other hand have. Maybe I'll switch over to Toxic Deluge.
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Edit: Guess I should explain my thought process. The way I see it there's basically packages you can put together in the deck and each uses a similar number of slots. You have the stompy package which is rhinos, sigarda, and other big things. You have the SFM package, you have the CA package, you have the PW package, and so on. There seems to be room in the deck to include two of them. So you can run SFM+PW or SFM+CA, or CA+Stompy.
If you go with SFM it seems to me that you want something that provides a steady stream of creatures to go alongside it. My above list is trying all the CA stuff but I could see merit to something like PW's as well
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
7-2 and on to day 2 in decent shape. Report to follow after, obviously.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
6-3 here. Report when I get home on Monday
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brael
If you go with SFM it seems to me that you want something that provides a steady stream of creatures to go alongside it. My above list is trying all the CA stuff but I could see merit to something like PW's as well
I read "insert combat walker" :wink:.
@Arianrhod/jbone - Nice job, go team!
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
4-5 here :rolleyes:
Lost to two storm players, elves, and sneak/show. Too many missplays on my part, im a bit annoyed with myself. Gave a DnT player the win after going to time. Going to modify the list a tad for Sundays super series. Adding big Elspeth, swords instead of paths, 2 deed/1 deluge main with 2 golgari charms side. Still working on learning to mulligan.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
square_two
4-5 here :rolleyes:
Lost to two storm players, elves, and sneak/show. Too many missplays on my part, im a bit annoyed with myself. Gave a DnT player the win after going to time. Going to modify the list a tad for Sundays super series. Adding big Elspeth, swords instead of paths, 2 deed/1 deluge main with 2 golgari charms side. Still working on learning to mulligan.
Don't forget the report though :wink:.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Hit 3 combo decks in a row and died as soon as I hit day 2. Jbone was in a bit longer but just died to miracles.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
I have a random (and probably bad) thought on Stoneforge Mystic. Has any thought ever been given to a singleton Paradise Mantle which could be used to turn SFM into a ramp card?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brael
I have a random (and probably bad) thought on Stoneforge Mystic. Has any thought ever been given to a singleton Paradise Mantle which could be used to turn SFM into a ramp card?
To answer your question - at the cost of what? You want to go to 61 cards (which should be a resounding no) or do you want to cut something (and if so, what)?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
To answer your question - at the cost of what? You want to go to 61 cards (which should be a resounding no) or do you want to cut something (and if so, what)?
The first thought for a cut would be Sakura Tribe Elder, it's a similar slot in that case.
Also, who was it that got this posted? Apparently it was near the top tables.
https://twitter.com/Chosler88/status/741782178057588736
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Read through the comments. It's hilarious.
@STE - I'm not so sure. Mantle is a poor chump blocker.
I got some testing done yesterday, finally got to play Tracker. That thing is insane! It's a late game card more than anything else but boy it can put you so far ahead of your opponent so quickly. I might replace my Painful Truths for 2 more Trackers. 1 Tracker is powerful enough as it is. Having multiple out? OMFG!
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
@STE - I'm not so sure. Mantle is a poor chump blocker.
I got some testing done yesterday, finally got to play Tracker. That thing is insane! It's a late game card more than anything else but boy it can put you so far ahead of your opponent so quickly. I might replace my Painful Truths for 2 more Trackers. 1 Tracker is powerful enough as it is. Having multiple out? OMFG!
Very true, it's just a random thought I had to add a better toolbox to the Mystic, it's very possible it doesn't need that though.
On the subject of Tireless Tracker, it's been pretty good for me, I dropped Painful Truths entirely in favor of Trackers. I don't understand how people get by with just 1 honestly, I'm up to 2-3 now, and could even see it as a 4 of. It's very strong, the biggest strike against it is that it's a 3 drop and we have no problem in filling up the 3 slot on our curve.
