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The spreadsheet has you losing to silk, but your explanation here makes sense to me. Casting Induced Amnesia means a draw at best. Without it, silkster can't win through Ensnaring Bridge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
DD 2-2?
That should put us both at 45 pts, but not change the bannings.
That might have been an error. I'll change it in the spreadsheet, and if silk finds a winning line I'll change it back.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
EDIT: Already changed, I see. :smile:
I'm only just getting around to checking now. :eek:
When I saw I had the same score as FTW, I figured the results were probably the same, but they're actually different! Looking over it, it's interesting that we both DD against Aesthereal for different reasons too.
I started out by looking by looking at Leyline and Chalice, but then I didn't like that it couldn't act against Leyline+Lotus decks. I quickly realized that I'd rather spend an extra card on Force of Will rather than on Leyline. I then spent the next fifteen minutes with "Force of Will, Misthollow Griffin" as the basis of my deck. Once I caught that mistake, I just looked for the best 3-drop I could find. It didn't even need to be blue, and I think I realized that at the time, but honestly I'm not entirely sure. I think I got lucky that Force of Will was good cause it was the only thing I could think of. I even forgot about Workshop and Empty. :tongue:
Meantime it looks like I have everybody, so let's get round 2 going:
DECKS FOR ROUND 2 OF SEASON 12: Vintage Creatureless Bannathon
1. Asthereal (TO): Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
2. dte: Urza's saga, Pithing needle, Ancient tomb, Sphere of resistance
3. Phasmoid: Dwarven Hold, Dwarven Hold, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Chandra, Awakened Inferno
4. Nasst: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
5. RoosterCocoa: Ancient Tomb, Sphere of Resistance, Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, From Under the Floorboards
7. alphastryk: Karakas, Mishra’s Factory, Field of Ruin, Serenity
8. FTW: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ratchet Bomb, Scalding Tongs
9. silkster: Hive of the Eye Tyrant, Dreadship Reef, Inquisition of Kozilek, Ashiok, Nightmare Muse
10. maxx!: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Chimeric Idol, Culling Scales
11. Reeplcheep: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Leyline of Sanctity, Mercadian Bazaar
Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
I'll create a tab for the round in our Google Spreadsheet, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
Asthereal's scores for round2 :
1. Asthereal (TO): Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs <-me
No time to cough up something new, so let's stick to my deck from round 1.
2. dte: Urza's saga, Pithing needle, Ancient tomb, Sphere of resistance WL 3-3
OTP I cast everything and win. OTD, assuming Saga can make two guys, you should race me.
3. Phasmoid: Dwarven Hold, Dwarven Hold, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Chandra, Awakened Inferno LL 0-6
4. Nasst: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs WL 3-3
5. RoosterCocoa: Ancient Tomb, Sphere of Resistance, Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage WL 3-3
OTP I get Bridge, OTD I don't and lose to the 20/20.
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, From Under the Floorboards WW 6-0
OTD, you make 7 2/2 guys. I make Bridge. You attack for 14. I make Tongs and have 1 card in hand now, so you can't attack anymore. Tongs kills you.
7. alphastryk: Karakas, Mishra’s Factory, Field of Ruin, Serenity LL 0-6
You have an answer for everything I can do.
8. FTW: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ratchet Bomb, Scalding Tongs LL 0-6
Ah, the anti-mirror. The one who plays Tongs first would win, but you have an answer for mine, so I always lose.
9. silkster: Hive of the Eye Tyrant, Dreadship Reef, Inquisition of Kozilek, Ashiok, Nightmare Muse LL 0-6
10. maxx!: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Chimeric Idol, Culling Scales LL 0-6
More anti-mirror tech. I should have spent more than a minute on my deck.
11. Reeplcheep: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Leyline of Sanctity, Mercadian Bazaar LL 0-6
Total: 15 points
1. Asthereal (TO): Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
4-1. OTP I outsphere you. OTD you play trini first, then bridge not to lose. On my side I go tomb, saga, sphere. Tongs never resolves, but my 2/2 is to big.
Edit 3-3, tongs cost 2 (or rather three here).
2. dte: Urza's saga, Pithing needle, Ancient tomb, Sphere of resistance
Me. Last round I hesitated with this deck, which would have scored 55/60, but thought playing double lotus was more fun, and got punished by :/
3. Phasmoid: Dwarven Hold, Dwarven Hold, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Chandra, Awakened Inferno
6-0. Needle
10
4. Nasst: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
4-1, see Asthereal.
14
Edit 3-3
5. RoosterCocoa: Ancient Tomb, Sphere of Resistance, Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage
6-0, needle on stage. I didn't even realise depths was not on the banning list! This would have been a bomb last round too.
20
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, From Under the Floorboards
3-3. I thought of this deck, especially as it gets under force of negation (which showed no play). I chose saga for stealing more points over workshop, I thought Asthereal's deck was great and would be played.
23
7. alphastryk: Karakas, Mishra’s Factory, Field of Ruin, Serenity
1-4. Tough vs serenity, particularly with a third land to play it over sphere. I did not thought of the card at all. It looks like a very well designed deck vs the meta.
tomb, sphere // land
saga // land
token // land. You field my tomb, it is a draw. If you play serenity, then I would needle factory for the win.
OTD, you win
24
8. FTW: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ratchet Bomb, Scalding Tongs
6-0. T1 saga needle on bomb, T2 and 3 making tokens wins.
30
Edit: Still 6-0, tongs are too slow to matter.
9. silkster: Hive of the Eye Tyrant, Dreadship Reef, Inquisition of Kozilek, Ashiok, Nightmare Muse
6-0. OTP needle wins. OTD you inquisition needle, but my 2 3/3s win the game vs ashiok (if it resolves on time vs one sphere).
36
10. maxx!: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Chimeric Idol, Culling Scales
6-0. I outsphere you, as you cannot play scales before I play sphere. the 2 3/3 tokens beat the idol.
42
11. Reeplcheep: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Leyline of Sanctity, Mercadian Bazaar
6-0. I win both on two life!
Needle on either bazaar or chandra ensure you cannot win.
I have to play sphere as well to get a 3/3 and not die to my own token upkeep (I take 2 a turn, so you have to take 3, and I cannot have two tokens).
T1 saga, needle, T2 tomb, sphere (18), T3 token 3/3 (16). Then it goes 14/17 (me/you), 12/14, 10/11, 8/8, 6/5, 4/2, 2/0.
48
Edit, 46. Tongs cost 2.
Went pretty well!
A meta much more diverse than last week, and so surprise to not see a single force!
8. FTW: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ratchet Bomb, Scalding Tongs
Shop seemed superior to FoN and combo, but I underestimated how many people would treat Asthereal's last deck as Backbuild.
If I wasn't so worried about losing to 1/1 Goblins (or 7 2/2 Zombies, apparently) I would have played my other deck.
1. Asthereal (TO): OTP my Tongs are faster. OTD if you play Tongs first, Ratchet @ 2 kills it, then I play mine. WW 6-0
2. dte: I thought I came ready to beat Saga and Sphere, but Needle shuts me down. Nice deck. LL 0-6
3. Phasmoid: I can eventually Ratchet the 1st Chandra, but still have Emblems, and you play a 2nd. LL 0-6
4. Nasst: Same as Asthereal. WW 6-0
5. RoosterCocoa: One MU where I miss Bridge. LL 0-6
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Ratchet @ 0 kills all the tokens. WW 6-0
7. alphastryk: Ratchet Bomb awkwardly can't kill Factory. LL 0-6
9. silkster: OTP 3sphere slows down Inquisition, but Ratchet Bomb still can't answer both threats. LL 0-6
10. maxx!: If you play Idol, I play Ratchet, then you play Scales. I just realized I can't distract Scales with Tongs or force you to blow up your own Idol, so Ratchet Bomb doesn't do enough. LL 0-6
11. Reeplcheep: DD 2-2
20 points (6 wins, 2 draws, 10 loss)
Why would Tongs not resolve? It costs just 2 mana, +1 from Sphere isn't a problem and Trini always gets checked last. We're already at 3 so it's no problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
Or did they change Trini rules again?
Nope, trini are still the same rules. I somehow assumed tongs costed 3, did not even checked, so it is 3-3 indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
I'll update my results, it should matter against others too.
As idol > tongs, you have to play bomb first, and scale can kill it before it gets 3 counters?Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
me: Dwarven Hold, Dwarven Hold, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Chandra, Awakened Inferno
1. Asthereal (TO): Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs WW 6-0
I cast a Chandra on T6, and goldfish between my T11 and my T12.
2. dte: Urza's saga, Pithing needle, Ancient tomb, Sphere of resistance LL 0-6
Needle shuts down Chandra, and then I lose to a Construct.
3. This is me.
4. Nasst: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs WW 6-0
I cast a Chandra on T6, and goldfish between my T11 and my T12.
5. RoosterCocoa: Ancient Tomb, Sphere of Resistance, Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage LL 0-6
Marit Lage smash
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, From Under the Floorboards LL 0-6
Zombies smash
7. alphastryk: Karakas, Mishra’s Factory, Field of Ruin, Serenity LL 0-6
Mishra's Factory attacks on T2, and on T3 or T4 or T5, Field of Ruin limits me to whichever land I play later.
Mishra's Factory won't be a creature on my turns, so I can't target it, I will lose to it on your T12 if I don't win first.
That is not enough time for a T2 storage land to store 12, so I cast only 1 Chandra, and do that on T9.
Even when I am OTP, that would not win for me until your T14.
8. FTW: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ratchet Bomb, Scalding Tongs WW 6-0
I cast one Chandra on T6, and will have another ready to cast starting on T10.
Thus you get at least one fire emblem on each of my turns T10,T11,...,T14,T15 , so I win no later than your T16.
9. silkster: Hive of the Eye Tyrant, Dreadship Reef, Inquisition of Kozilek, Ashiok, Nightmare Muse WW 6-0
See my "hopefully-correct-this-time analysis" post on the next page.
10. maxx!: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Chimeric Idol, Culling Scales LL 0-6
I lose to the non-idle Idol.
11. Reeplcheep: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Leyline of Sanctity, Mercadian Bazaar WW 6-0
Chandra's +2 doesn't target, so both Tabernacle and LoS are dead against me. I cast a Chandra on T6. That one will have
10 loyalty when my T7 ends, which is before you can cast your Chandra, so yours can't kill mine and mine kills yours.
30 points , even though the "can't be countered" part did exactly nothing this round
(I specifically looked for such a card, since FoN is still legal.)
Also, my original analysis post for my match against silkster was wrong because I had not noticed
that Chandra was Legendary. :-) Fortunately, that doesn't actually affect any of my results.
11. Reeplcheep: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Leyline of Sanctity, Mercadian Bazaar
I lost a bunch of matches last week by respecting tabernacle; so I had to play it this week if no one else would.
1. Asthereal (TO): Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
WW 6-0
2. dte: Urza's saga, Pithing needle, Ancient tomb, Sphere of resistance
Just barely lose the race per above. LL 0-6
3. Phasmoid: Dwarven Hold, Dwarven Hold, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Chandra, Awakened Inferno
The bigger greedier version of my deck. LL 0-6
4. Nasst: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
WW 6-0
5. RoosterCocoa: Ancient Tomb, Sphere of Resistance, Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage
I thought dark depths was banned as it was under discussion. LL 0-6
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, From Under the Floorboards
Tabernacle WW 6-0
7. alphastryk: Karakas, Mishra’s Factory, Field of Ruin, Serenity
Field of ruin LL 0-6
8. FTW: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ratchet Bomb, Scalding Tongs
How are you killing me if you use bomb on Chandra??DD 2-2WW 6-0
9. silkster: Hive of the Eye Tyrant, Dreadship Reef, Inquisition of Kozilek, Ashiok, Nightmare Muse
Storage lands have a ton of trouble pushing through tabernacle. I can save Leyline for the first “recoil” and race with three emblems. ?
10. maxx!: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Chimeric Idol, Culling Scales
Scales is blank but I can’t answer the turtle. LL 0-6
8 W 12 L for 24/60?? Playing a hard anti-meta deck is risky business.
I thought Depths was banned too, otherwise Sphere + Depths looks a lot better than Shop + 3ball. Didn't look too closely.
CMC "equal to", not less than. Bomb @ 6 kills Chandra without killing Tongs, then my Tongs has a head start on your 1 emblem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
I was tempted to play the Turtle, but it plays badly with needing Ratchet Bomb @ 3 to kill Ensnaring Bridge.
I think he meant that then you cannot remove leyline.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
Oh, I forgot Tongs targets instead of "each opponent" like most of those effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
Tongs, most misunderstood card (I misread the cmc, you the effect), in a round that included trinisphere, tabernacle, LED, storelands, stage, culling scales and madness cards...Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
4CB is weird.
Did I screw up too? Ratchet bomb doesn’t stop me from making the first emblem and killing Leyline isn’t fast enough to win the race. WW 6-0?Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
1. Asthereal (TO): Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
Anything you play out gets blown up by Serenity, anything you hold gets stuck in your hand after I Field your land. WW
6-0
2. dte: Urza's saga, Pithing needle, Ancient tomb, Sphere of resistance
*Disagreement* If you ever play out Tomb, I Field it ASAP, then Serenity answers anything else you do (including any Constructs and Saga itself, which needs Tomb to produce a threat anyways). If you play Saga and try to hold Needle for Factory, I wait out Saga and still have Serenity for Needle. If you hold Saga + Needle I can hold Serenity. Any waiting game I win with Factory. WW
6-0
3. Phasmoid: Dwarven Hold, Dwarven Hold, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Chandra, Awakened Inferno
Comes down to a race, and Factory wins before a Change wins from a single Storage land on your turn 2, assuming I Field the first one. WW
6-0
4. Nasst: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
Anything you play out gets blown up by Serenity, anything you hold gets stuck in your hand after I Field your land. WW
6-0
5. RoosterCocoa: Ancient Tomb, Sphere of Resistance, Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage
I don't care about Sphere and Karakas beats Marit Lage. WW
6-0
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, From Under the Floorboards
Tokens, my major weakness. LL
0-6
7. alphastryk: Karakas, Mishra’s Factory, Field of Ruin, Serenity
me
8. FTW: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ratchet Bomb, Scalding Tongs
Anything you play out gets blown up by Serenity, anything you hold gets stuck in your hand after I Field your land. Even if you had Powder Keg instead of Ratchet Bomb to kill Factory you can't keep it in play. WW
6-0
9. silkster: Hive of the Eye Tyrant, Dreadship Reef, Inquisition of Kozilek, Ashiok, Nightmare Muse
Field beats storage land and Inquisition doesn't stop Factory. WW
6-0
10. maxx!: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Chimeric Idol, Culling Scales
Anything you play out gets blown up by Serenity, anything you hold gets stuck in your hand after I Field your land (If you play out Scales I wait it out and hold Serenity). WW
6-0
11. Reeplcheep: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Leyline of Sanctity, Mercadian Bazaar
Field stops your storage land and Factory doesn't care about Leyline. WW
6-0
Total: 54 points, might be the best round I've ever had
You can't cast Serenity through Sphere of Resistance if you've already used Field of Ruin, so the Field ASAP -> Serenity line does not work.Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
Nice deck otherwise! Great read of the meta on Shop/Tomb artifact decks.
5. RoosterCocoa: Ancient Tomb, Sphere of Resistance, Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage
1. Asthereal (TO): Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
OTP I get Sphere and you can only play Tongs, OTD you get Bridge. WL
2. dte: Urza's saga, Pithing needle, Ancient tomb, Sphere of resistance
I can't beat Pithing Needle. LL
3. Phasmoid: Dwarven Hold, Dwarven Hold, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Chandra, Awakened Inferno
You can't do anything about Marit Lage. WW
4. Nasst: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
OTP I get Sphere and you can only play Tongs, OTD you get Bridge. WL
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, From Under the Floorboards
OTP you can't play anything through Sphere. OTD you win too fast for me to make Marit Lage. WL
7. alphastryk: Karakas, Mishra’s Factory, Field of Ruin, Serenity
Marit Lage dies to Krakas. LL
8. FTW: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ratchet Bomb, Scalding Tongs
Marit Lage has indestructible, so you can't stop it. WW
9. silkster: Hive of the Eye Tyrant, Dreadship Reef, Inquisition of Kozilek, Ashiok, Nightmare Muse
You can't do anything about Marit Lage. WW
10. maxx!: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Chimeric Idol, Culling Scales
You can't do anything about Marit Lage. WW
11. Reeplcheep: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Leyline of Sanctity, Mercadian Bazaar
You can't do anything about Marit Lage. WW
13W 0D 7L = 39
I talked myself out of submitting this last round when it would have almost swept the field, and figured I might as well submit it while there were still unbanned lands that easily produced 2 mana.
maxx!: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Chimeric Idol, Culling Scales
1. Asthereal (TO): Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
I assumed this would be here and I wanted a way to beat Ensnaring Bridge, hence the Culling Scales. 6-0
2. dte: Urza's saga, Pithing needle, Ancient tomb, Sphere of resistance
Sphere stops me from playing Scales, and Needle shuts off Idol after that. 0-6
3. Phasmoid: Dwarven Hold, Dwarven Hold, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Chandra, Awakened Inferno
Hmmm... Culling Scales and Trinisphere are both blanks, but Chimeric Idol is probably the exact type of threat I want against Chandra. Pretty sure I race this easily:
OTD
T1 Dwarven Hold / Chimeric Idol
T2 Dwarven Hold (0c 1c) / Attack (17)
T3 Don't untap (1c 2c) / Attack (14)
T4 Don't untap (2c 3c) / Attack (11)
T5 Don't untap (3c 4c) / Attack (8)
T6 Chandra, +2 (8L)(0c 1c) / Attack (19 v 5)
T7 Don't untap (1c 2c), +2 (10L) / Attack (17 v 2)
T7 Don't untap (2c 3c), +2 (12L) / Attack (14 v -1)
6-0
4. Nasst: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
See Asthereal. 6-0
5. RoosterCocoa: Ancient Tomb, Sphere of Resistance, Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage
Dark Depths did not enter my mind at all for this season because we always have it banned! This is a good deck. 0-6
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, From Under the Floorboards
OTP I get 3ball and you're locked out. OTD I can't beat your Zombies. 3-3
7. alphastryk: Karakas, Mishra’s Factory, Field of Ruin, Serenity
This is designed to beat Shop decks, and it sure does. 0-6
8. FTW: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ratchet Bomb, Scalding Tongs
Idol races Tongs, and if you ever play Ratchet Bomb then I play Culling Scales and kill it before it can blow up my Idol. 6-0
9. silkster: Hive of the Eye Tyrant, Dreadship Reef, Inquisition of Kozilek, Ashiok, Nightmare Muse
OTD you Inquisition my Idol and I can't win. OTP looks close, but I think you might stabilize in time.
OTP
T1 Idol / Inquisition (take Scales)
T2 Attack (17) / Reef
T3 Attack (14), EOT add counter (1c) / Pass
T4 Attack (11), EOT add counter (2c) / Pass
T5 Attack (8), EOT add counter (3c) / Pass
T6 Attack (5), EOT add counter (4c) / Ashiok
You can +1 every turn to chump while you build up storage counters for your manland and loyalty counters on Ashiok. Alternatively, I could Trinisphere first to save my Scales from Inquisition, but you can still easily exile Idol with Ashiok's -3 ability. 0-6
10. maxx!: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Chimeric Idol, Culling Scales
This is me :]
11. Reeplcheep: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Leyline of Sanctity, Mercadian Bazaar
A pure race of Idol vs Chandra. I get in a ton of damage before Chandra lands, and Chandra can't kill Idol since it's not a creature on your turn. 6-0
6+0+6+6+0+3+0+6+0+6 = 33
Shop seemed better than Force this round, and combo (LED, Storm, Dark Rit, etc.) all went 3-3 against Shop decks with Spheres. I wanted a threat that was faster than Tongs, and once I settled on Chimeric Idol I knew my last card had to beat Ensnaring Bridge. Culling Scales felt pretty good since my whole deck costs 3, but I did not expect so many storage land decks that can cast more expensive cards. Looks like it still worked out, especially with my threat beating Chandra all by itself.