Miracle Control

Quote:

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Originally Posted by natethegrate

What do you guys think of just a straight swap with the 2 RIP in the board of the ponder list for 2 containment priest? It seems like if your on the plan of boarding out all you Counterballences against the bug decks then you don't want RIP anyways, and the priest seems just better in any of the other matchups where RIP is good.

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This has been discussed before. I for one don't think that we can just abandon rest in peace, as it by itself can win games, where as the priest is only a temporary solution.

I like RIP vs rug delver as well, where priest does nothing. Pesky mongeese.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by exallium

That sounds sweet. Is the 2 jace for 2 dig the swap? Do you find the deck takes longer to win at all?

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If you play Einherjer's version you can just swap 2 Jaces and will be fine. I play a weird list with 3 Ponders, 22 Lands, MD Pyroclasm etc. I'm not happy with the list, but i like the direction it is going. Games go definetely a little bit longer in grindy MU's, because you have fewer wincons but you don't miss Jace a lot against Shardless BUG. Jace is only a little bit better than Dig Through Time in that MU.

Against all the cancer decks aka Delver decks Dig Through Time is awesome. You can consistently cast it for UU on Turn 4 and gain a huge advantage by assembling Countertop, or getting more removal/counters or something like SFM postboard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adryan

If you play Einherjer's version you can just swap 2 Jaces and will be fine. I play a weird list with 3 Ponders, 22 Lands, MD Pyroclasm etc. I'm not happy with the list, but i like the direction it is going. Games go definetely a little bit longer in grindy MU's, because you have fewer wincons but you don't miss Jace a lot against Shardless BUG. Jace is only a little bit better than Dig Through Time in that MU.

Against all the cancer decks aka Delver decks Dig Through Time is awesome. You can consistently cast it for UU on Turn 4 and gain a huge advantage by assembling Countertop, or getting more removal/counters or something like SFM postboard.

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Not that you're telling me to but I dunno how to fit both cliques and an sfm package into my board without sacrificing other matchups... Board wise I'm currently thinking something like:

2 clique
2 fluster
2 pyroblast
1 red blast
1 terminus (sv main deck)
2 rip
1 priest
1 needle
1 disenchant
1 blood moon
1 EE

W. Ein's 60, though I want to try the dtt swap.

I also don't think I really need it.

If you wanna play with DTT I feel like its best to play something like the list that won Eternal Festival Tokyo(kinda like Reid Duke's list). While I'm on the 4ponder list, I tested this version with 3DTT and it played really solid too, except u had a bit more sketchy opening hands, but it was still fine.

Exallium, this is the list I have been testing and plan on playing this at the GP. I might change 1-2 cards, like moon or a RIP, but other than that nothing will change. It is basically the Austrian maindeck, with -1 Volc, -1 Counterspell, -1CB for +2 Pyroblasts main, +1 Mountain. And then with SFM in the SB.


2 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Pyroblast
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Counterbalance
1 Counterspell
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Council's Judgment
2 Entreat the Angels
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
4 Terminus
1 Dig Through Time

Sideboard:
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Flusterstorm
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Wear // Tear
1 Pyroclasm
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Blood Moon
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Batterskull

Anyone NOT playing blasts in a "normal" meta right now is doing it wrong. The card is too good not to play when 50% of the decks are playing treasure or DTT and 70%+ of decks are casting brainstorm or FoW. With miracles, all the common non-blue decks are easy matchups anyways: Elves, Nic fit, maverick, Jund, Lands, etc. I also think the same thing about SFM/Batterskull. Batterskull is really good right now and helps a lot to improve the URx delver matchups.

The compromise you make is against fast combo decks (belcher, storm, etc) where Blast is much worse than pierce, counterspell or counterbalance. But those matchups are not too bad in the first place so its ok.

I decided to go with the mountain over 2-3 Volcs. Yeah, it sucks sometimes but being wasteland proof is worth it I think when BUG, RUG and UWR delver all are playing 3-4 TC and wasteland. This could be wrong. If you think 3 Volcs is better, go with that.

DTT time is awesome in miracles. Before you say "but it is bad synergy with Miracles and with Snapcaster", just shut up instead. DTT is actually AWESOME with miracles. If its a terminus or entreat you need to cast it helps you find the miracle and lets you find the Jace/brainstorm/snap to set it up. Also, DTT is easily the best card you could target with snapcaster. DTT is usually already good when you cast it for 2UU, casting it for 1UUU and getting a 2/1 is even better. Snapcaster is the most common thing I have been picking with DTT, the exiling cards part of delve is a complete non-issue. By the time you need to cast a DTT there are usually way more than 6 cards in your GY and you can just leave the relevant snapcaster targets in there.

Rest in peace I still like having. Im not bringing it in against any delver decks unless they have 8+ cards that care about the GY. So for example, BUG delver I bring it in against, but never UR, even if they had like a snapcaster or something. Also, bringing in RIP does NOT mean you take out snap or DTT necessarily. If you get to cast RIP, Snap, or DTT you are probably winning so possibly having dead cards latter doesn't matter. Reanimator and Dredge are still winnable without RIP, but Lands and punishing fire decks are awful without it. I realize those are not the most played decks around, but those matchups go from extremely hard to favorable with just 2 cards in the SB (and helping with BUG/RUG delver, and GY combo) makes playing 2 RIP worth it still.

Cool! I will try this out.

Hey all long time lurker on the thread. Really like everyones comments etc. Below is the list I have been testing and thinking about running at the GP. I have been going back and forth between this and the standard 4 ponder list. I like some aspects of DTT but am not completely sold on it even through my testing. I do believe the MD blast effects are correct, not sure though if only 2 volcs can support this. In most cases I try and play smart and keep a fetch up so I can get red when needed. I am reluctant to run the MD mountain as it makes for some awkward opening hands at times. Also in the SB the fun of of moon and tutor its mostly just respect for 12 post and some delver but not sure if its worth the two slots. Also in this list I kind of miss the utility of snapcaster as well. Would love to hear yalls comments on this decklist.


Land (22)
2x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
4x Island
1x Karakas
2x Plains
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Tundra
2x Volcanic Island
Enchantment (4)
4x Counterbalance
Artifact (4)
4x Sensei's Divining Top
Planeswalker (3)
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Instant (18)
4x Brainstorm
2x Counterspell
2x Dig Through Time
4x Force of Will
2x Pyroblast
4x Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery (7)
1x Council's Judgment
2x Entreat the Angels
1x Supreme Verdict
3x Terminus
Creature (2)
2x Vendilion Clique

Sideboard
1x Blood Moon
1x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
1x Disenchant
1x Enlightened Tutor
3x Flusterstorm
1x Pyroblast
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Rest in Peace
1x Vendilion Clique

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aresmorae

Hey all long time lurker on the thread. Really like everyones comments etc. Below is the list I have been testing and thinking about running at the GP. I have been going back and forth between this and the standard 4 ponder list. I like some aspects of DTT but am not completely sold on it even through my testing. I do believe the MD blast effects are correct, not sure though if only 2 volcs can support this. In most cases I try and play smart and keep a fetch up so I can get red when needed. I am reluctant to run the MD mountain as it makes for some awkward opening hands at times. Also in the SB the fun of of moon and tutor its mostly just respect for 12 post and some delver but not sure if its worth the two slots. Also in this list I kind of miss the utility of snapcaster as well. Would love to hear yalls comments on this decklist.


Land (22)
2x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
4x Island
1x Karakas
2x Plains
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Tundra
2x Volcanic Island
Enchantment (4)
4x Counterbalance
Artifact (4)
4x Sensei's Divining Top
Planeswalker (3)
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Instant (18)
4x Brainstorm
2x Counterspell
2x Dig Through Time
4x Force of Will
2x Pyroblast
4x Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery (7)
1x Council's Judgment
2x Entreat the Angels
1x Supreme Verdict
3x Terminus
Creature (2)
2x Vendilion Clique

Sideboard
1x Blood Moon
1x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
1x Disenchant
1x Enlightened Tutor
3x Flusterstorm
1x Pyroblast
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Rest in Peace
1x Vendilion Clique

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Some comments:
I like the now standard use of 4 counterbalance main as Abrupt Decay is on a all time low I guess.
Dig through time is way inferior to Snapcaster Mage or some Ponders as they help you smooth out the sensei divinin top T2 play when no BS in hands, what is the reasoning for that card? Also why would you have a Supreme Verdict MB? Terminus is way superior on this super fast clock Delver metagame. Wear/tear is a Disenchant upgrade. Enlightened Tutor feels like it could be swapped for something more useful like the Supreme Verdict or the 4th copy of Terminus.

Based on the above comment and my testing as well I think this is another version that would work well as well,

Land (22)
2x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
4x Island
1x Karakas
2x Plains
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Tundra
2x Volcanic Island
Enchantment (4)
4x Counterbalance
Artifact (4)
4x Sensei's Divining Top
Instant (16)
4x Brainstorm
2x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
2x Pyroblast
4x Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery (9)
1x Council's Judgment
2x Entreat the Angels
2x Ponder
4x Terminus
Planeswalker (2)
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Creature (3)
3x Snapcaster Mage
Sideboard
1x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
3x Flusterstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Rest in Peace
1x Supreme Verdict
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear

It looks great now. Be careful as playing only 2 Jtms can make your deck very slow to close out games.

Also don't forget to always take the Force of Wills out when playing against any non combo creature decks (delver, stoneforge, deathrite, merfolk, etc). I keep seing people leaving them on the mainboard after g1...:cry:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aresmorae

Based on the above comment and my testing as well I think this is another version that would work well as well,


Instant (16)
4x Brainstorm
2x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
2x Pyroblast
4x Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery (9)
1x Council's Judgment
2x Entreat the Angels
2x Ponder
4x Terminus
Planeswalker (2)
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

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I understand why you would only MD 2 Jaces, but I would still have 1 Jace in the SB. Feels like some would easily take your version and run 3 Jaces and 3 StP instead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by twndomn

I understand why you would only MD 2 Jaces, but I would still have 1 Jace in the SB. Feels like some would easily take your version and run 3 Jaces and 3 StP instead.

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I think I might just go to 2 Snaps and 3 Jaces,

What you think?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aresmorae

I think I might just go to 2 Snaps and 3 Jaces,

What you think?

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So here is my current list with SB plan, Let me know if you think I missed any key matches or made any errors in my SB plan.
Deck List:
Land (22)
2x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
4x Island
1x Karakas
2x Plains
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Tundra
2x Volcanic Island
Enchantment (4)
4x Counterbalance
Artifact (4)
4x Sensei's Divining Top
Instant (16)
4x Brainstorm
2x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
2x Pyroblast
4x Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery (9)
1x Council's Judgment
2x Entreat the Angels
2x Ponder
4x Terminus
Planeswalker (3)
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Creature (2)
2x Snapcaster Mage
Sideboard
1x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
3x Flusterstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Rest in Peace
1x Supreme Verdict
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear


Sideboarding Plans;

RUG Delver:
1x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Council's Judgment
2x Flusterstorm
2x Rest in Peace
3x Vendilion Clique


-4 Force Of Will
-2 Counterspell
-3 Jace the Mind Sculptor

BUG Delver:

1x Council's Judgment
3x Flusterstorm
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear

-4 Force Of Will
-4 Counterbalance

UWR Delver:

1x Council's Judgment
3x Flusterstorm
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear

-4 Force Of Will
-1 Counter Spell
-1 Jace
-2 Pyro





U/R Delver
1x Counterspell
3x Flusterstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast

-4 Force Of Will
-2 Jace

Show and Tell:

1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
3x Flusterstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast
3x Vendilion Clique

-4 STP
-4 Terminus
-1 Entreat
-1 Snap

ANT:
3x Flusterstorm
2x Rest in Peace
3x Vendilion Clique

-4 Terminus
-2 entreat
-1 STP
-1 Jace

TES:
1x Blue Elemental Blast
3x Flusterstorm
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Counterspell

-4 STP
-2 Pyro
-1 entreat
-1 Jace


Mirror:
1x Counterspell
3x Flusterstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast
1x Supreme Verdict
3x Vendilion Clique

-4 term
-4 STP
-2 Entreat

StoneBlade:
1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
3x Flusterstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast
1x Wear / Tear

-4 STP
-4 FOW

Deathblade:
1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
3x Flusterstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast
1x Wear / Tear

-4 Counterbalance
-4 FOW

Shardless:
1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
2x Red Elemental Blast
3x Vendilion Clique
2x Rest in Peace
1x Supreme Verdict

-4 FOW
-4 Counterbalance
-2 STP

Jund:
1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
2x Rest in Peace
1x Supreme Verdict
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear


-4 Force of Will
-3 Jace the Mind Sculptor
-2 Pyro
Death and Taxes
2x Fluster Storm
1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear

-4 Counterbalance
-2 Force of Will
-2 Pyro
U/R Delver
1x Blue Elemental Blast
2x Flusterstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear

-3 Jace
-4 FOW
-2 Snap

I definitely want all the snapcasters vs ur delver

There's an argument for keeping Forces in. They have an extremely low number of threats, as with any Delver deck, and everything else is just sort of a pile when they don't have one in play.

No Clique's versus the blade MU's?

What's the reasoning behind flusterstorm vs Death and Taxes?
Protect vs StP and Council's Judgement as well as Cataclysm?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YamiJoey

There's an argument for keeping Forces in. They have an extremely low number of threats, as with any Delver deck, and everything else is just sort of a pile when they don't have one in play.

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Not only that but it's another answer for vortex

Thanks for sharing! I like your list your approach when it comes to sideboarding. There are some things I think can be improved though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aresmorae

So here is my current list with SB plan, Let me know if you think I missed any key matches or made any errors in my SB plan.
Deck List:
Land (22)
2x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
4x Island
1x Karakas
2x Plains
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Tundra
2x Volcanic Island
Enchantment (4)
4x Counterbalance
Artifact (4)
4x Sensei's Divining Top
Instant (16)
4x Brainstorm
2x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
2x Pyroblast
4x Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery (9)
1x Council's Judgment
2x Entreat the Angels
2x Ponder
4x Terminus
Planeswalker (3)
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Creature (2)
2x Snapcaster Mage
Sideboard
1x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
3x Flusterstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Rest in Peace
1x Supreme Verdict
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear


Sideboarding Plans;

RUG Delver:
1x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Council's Judgment
2x Flusterstorm
2x Rest in Peace
3x Vendilion Clique


-4 Force Of Will
-2 Counterspell
-3 Jace the Mind Sculptor

I would side out 2 pyroblast for 1 jace and 1 supreme verdict. There is no way I ever want to fetch a volcanic island in this matchup.

BUG Delver:

1x Council's Judgment
3x Flusterstorm
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear

-4 Force Of Will
-4 Counterbalance

I would only sideboard Flusterstorm if I saw stifle or hymn to tourach. Supreme Verdict is def. better than the third flusterstorm. Supreme Verdict is pretty good. Wear/Tear is not needed if you bring 2 CJ. Consider Pyroblast if they don't run stifle AND run TNN or TC

UWR Delver:

1x Council's Judgment
3x Flusterstorm
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear

-4 Force Of Will
-1 Counter Spell
-1 Jace
-2 Pyro

Counterbalance is much weaker than blasts. I explained this before and I think Philipp brought it up in one of his articles aswell. Flusterstorm is also kinda weak and only good to protect Terminus, which is not enough. Again, I would only side in flusterstorm if I saw stifle. -4 fow -4 cb +1 CJ +3 Clique +1 Supreme Verdict +2 Pyroblast +1 CS.



U/R Delver
1x Counterspell
3x Flusterstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast

-4 Force Of Will
-2 Jace

Add the Blue blast over Counterspell and Supreme Verdict over Council's Judgment. CJ is pretty slow and the blue blast stops vortex too.

Show and Tell:

1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
3x Flusterstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast
3x Vendilion Clique

-4 STP
-4 Terminus
-1 Entreat
-1 Snap

Snapcaster is excellent. Council's Judgment is not. The plan is to never let them resolve SNT or sneak attack because then you are dead, CJ or not. If you are up against sneak attack, through the breach or something with burning wish I would add the blue blast over 1 Jace.

ANT:
3x Flusterstorm
2x Rest in Peace
3x Vendilion Clique

-4 Terminus
-2 entreat
-1 STP
-1 Jace

Remove 1 Jace, 1 CJ, 1 Land and put the 2 red blasts and the CS in the deck. he will likely realize PiF will be hated with RIP and side in ETW. You could keep 2 terminus over a STP and jace

TES:
1x Blue Elemental Blast
3x Flusterstorm
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Counterspell

-4 STP
-2 Pyro
-1 entreat
-1 Jace

If you ever resolve jace or entreat without dying you would've won with snapcaster or clique beats anyways. You much rather have a pyroblast for their Ponder. Also consider shaving a land.

Mirror:
1x Counterspell
3x Flusterstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast
1x Supreme Verdict
3x Vendilion Clique

-4 term
-4 STP
-2 Entreat

Allthough Entreat varies from great to poor it's allways better than any type of removal, especially the ones in sorcery speed. -1 Verdict +1 Entreat. CJ is inefficient and only good if you are behind or allready close to dead. It's close between keeping that and bringing the second entreat back to main.

StoneBlade:
1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
3x Flusterstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast
1x Wear / Tear

-4 STP
-4 FOW

Vendilion Clique is a lot better than flusterstorm. You want powerful topdecks and not situational dead draws in the mid/late-game. Clique is bad vs Lingering souls in play but one of the best things you have if it's in their hand. If you see bob I would keep Stp and if I saw TNN I would add Supreme Verdict.

Deathblade:
1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
3x Flusterstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast
1x Wear / Tear

-4 Counterbalance
-4 FOW

Why no Supreme Verdict?

Shardless:
1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
2x Red Elemental Blast
3x Vendilion Clique
2x Rest in Peace
1x Supreme Verdict

-4 FOW
-4 Counterbalance
-2 STP

STP is actually better than RIP. Not only will they have Abrupt Decay but most often Golgari Charms... When RIP dies it's just a turn or two until goyf hit for 6 again.

Jund:
1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
2x Rest in Peace
1x Supreme Verdict
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear


-4 Force of Will
-3 Jace the Mind Sculptor
-2 Pyro

RIP is still nog great but Punishing Fire forces us to keep them. Jace is a lot better than CB, even if it's just a brainstorm and a healing salve. The plan is not locking them with CB+top but to win with entreat. If they side in pyroblast for Jace they can't be as effective with Liliana of the Veil so Jace generally resolves.

Death and Taxes
2x Fluster Storm
1x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear

-4 Counterbalance
-2 Force of Will
-2 Pyro

Force of will fill the same role as flusterstorm (CJ/Cataclysm) but the huge difference is that it stops vial turn1. If I have a mana to spare vs DnT for a flusterstorm I would rather put that to use somewhere else, unless Im allready winning of course. -2 flusterstorm +2 fow and -1 CS for +1 Supreme Verdict

U/R Delver
1x Blue Elemental Blast
2x Flusterstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear

-3 Jace
-4 FOW
-2 Snap

Snapcaster is a lot better than Counterspell and I think I would rather have the third Supreme Verdict over CJ.

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I question the SB idea against and Red decks, let it be U/R Delver, WUR Dlever, Jund, and Burn.

Not only you want to be able to keep Vortex off the board, you also want the life-gain. If you are not running SFM package, you gotta consider Baneslayer. Rudy Briksza's on SFM, not Miracles, yet he still wanted Baneslayer and Kor Firewalker.