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Essentially everything anotherday said. It's been debated, but in the end, SGC wins as the 5-drop goblin of choice. You don't have many slots to work with at that manacost, so you have to make them count, and SGC is superior in the situations where you need a bomb.
@Two:
Your list is quite aggressive. It looks really good for the lack of Wastelands/Ports
@Kiki Jiki:
Sorry, i only asked about Kiki-Jiki because I don't have a 3rd Siege-Gang Commander and wanted to win in 3 turns with him in the sideboard against combo.
Hey guys!
Yesterday my friend and I were discussing Lead the Stampede for the green splash in Goblins.
It may serve as Ringleader 5-8.
Tom
Maybe 5-6... but having too many of them has obvious negative implications on your ringleaders 1-4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom T
Matron is already Ringleaders 5-8... or whatever else you need it to be.
Picked up the deck again and just looking for sideboard input. Currently as follows...
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Goblin Tinkerer
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Perish
Do Chalices take priority over Mindbreak Trap?
And I'm thinking Pyrokinesis is gonna replace REB, but not sure yet?
Chalice has less weaknesses then Mindbreak Trap and Chalice works against more decktypes.
Is there a thread or a current deck list for R/G Goblins?
Is that supposed to be an argument why we shouldn't try out 1-2 Lead the Stampedes? Playing LtS doesn't lower your Matron or Ringleader count... it just adds to the explosive card advantage without polluting the goblin count to much. Good Ringleader resolves make us win, so I don't see why it's not worth testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherday
I'm guessing that's because of Orim's Chant / Silence / FoW? I only ask because last time I checked, being an artifact IS a pretty big weakness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessaja
What else does Chalice come in against other than Belcher and Storm?
Don't get me wrong. I think the card has potential, but I just don't see it making the cut. The 3drop spot is already cluttered enough. It can't be cheated into play for free/cheap via Lackey, Vial, or Warchief. In a deck as mana hungry as goblins, its a huge tempo sink. It has negative interaction with Ringleader. And on top of it all, the CA in goblins is already so good with Matron, Ringleader, Incinerator, SGC, and potentially MWM. If I'm gonna be splashing for green, or any color for that matter, its gonna be to shore up the deck's weaknesses, not to improve on what the deck already excels at. But hey, this is just my opinion. If testing proves otherwise, good ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatara
This depends on the cards you have in SB. If you don't have btétter cards you can use it against:Quote:
Originally Posted by pater
* Canadian Thresh
* Elves Combo
* Enchantress (@1 to stop their mana-ramp and elephant grass)
* Lands (to shut down Loam)
* Burn
It's also pretty pimp against Zoo when you're on the play. Their curve is super low AND they aren't expecting it from an aggro deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by pater
Agreed. Mogg War Mashal is CA ALMOST like Time Walk is CA in that he buys a turn or two for drawing naturally. Besides that, he might waste removal which is also awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherday
to add to that,.. sick against Dreadstill as Dreadstill lists often don't pack Ee due to low number of colours. Although UBw lists had been popping up and I've never really played against it. In testing, it was really good against traditional Dreadstill lists though.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
I just took out Instigators and replaced them with 2 Mogg Fanatic and 2 War Marshals.
Are Fanatics outdated? Does anyone have an instance where Mogg Fanatic saved their ass (recently, not 5+ years ago)?
I only see him as a means to remove Bridge from Below, but maybe he can help with removal? Untapping Sharpshooter? Or should he just become more War Marshals or turn back into Instigators?
MWM or Instigator is better than Fanatic. Think about the format. Are there any 1 toughness creatures to really be scared of right now?Quote:
Originally Posted by pater
Lackey, Lavamancer, Confidant... That's about it.
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/3692.html
I was reading this article today and thinking about Goblins in terms of the match-ups within which Goblins is the beatdown deck. I did some quick brainstorming and this is what I’ve initially concluded-
Match-ups where our opponent is the Beatdown-
Zoo
Elf Combo
Dredge
Painter’s Servant
Affinity
Springtide
Belcher
ANT
Match-ups where Goblins is the Beatdown-
Merfolk
CounterTop
GWB Junk
NO Bant
Team America
Canadian Thresh
Green and Taxes
Lands
Stax
Enchantress
New Horizons
If you haven’t read the article the term “the beatdown” basically means the deck that will try to win through aggression. The other deck takes the control role and tries to win via that avenue. This certainly does not mean that all decks are either Aggro or Control, just that all MU have one deck that will be optimal when played aggressively and the other that will be better played defensively.
I thought this was an interesting concept to apply to Goblins since it is a deck that seems so aggro at face value but actually needs to play control against most of the decks in the field. Against decks like Zoo and Affinity Goblins needs to set up a defensive board state while controlling the other deck’s creatures. Against Painter and Elf combos we need to keep them from getting the creatures in play they need to go off. We are the control player because all they need to do is play a few creatures then combo out on us T3. It’s a similar situation with Tide and Storm combo decks. They try to win by killing us before we have a chance to kill them, and it is up to us to stop them from playing a critical number of spells a turn. And Dredge is Dredge. If you can’t stop them from discarding or attack their graveyard then you’ll probably find yourself on the losing end of a Zombie blowout.
Goblins actually gets to be the beatdown pretty much any time the opposing deck has blue AND creatures. Clearly it will be on the offensive against straight up control decks, but it also plays the beatdown role against midrange agro-control decks. Sure, Goblins still uses control elements in these matches, but it’s usually in the form of mana-denial as we develop our board with Lackeys and Vials.
When I looked at the list I generated and applied it to my sideboard I realized that Pyrokinesis is probably the best SB card out there. It can be used against any deck that’s creature based and it can disrupt Painter and Elf combos. I still think Chalice is the best all-around anti-storm card. A problem I now see is graveyard hate. There aren’t enough recursion decks out there right now to warrant the use of 4 graveyard hate slots, but I still feel that it is necessary. Dredge becomes unwinnable wayyy too quickly if you have no answers for their graveyard (which is weird because Dredge doesn’t seem to be around much these days). What sucks about planning for Dredge is that Leyline of the Void is clearly the best card against it, except that Leyline is just plain awful against everything else.
Interesting thought. Regarding graveyard-hate: Leyline is also the best answer we have on Lands aand New Horizons (although NH can be shattered by Perish alone). I agree with you that gravehate should be lowerd to 3 slots - that again makes Leyline nearly unplayable (since it is best as 4-of). If you want to have a solid Dredge MU and run only 3 GYH slots you should probably rely on echo-triggers of Stingscourger and MWM as well as on SKirk Prospector and Warren Weirding, all of which blast Bridge from Below. Plus, Those cards are excellent in stalling their tokens.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
Following this logic, what do you think of this list?
//Lands [22]
7 Wasteland/Port
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Auntie's Hovel
4 Mountain
1 Volrath's Stronghold
//Core [26]
...
//Others [7 + 5]
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Warren Weirding
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Skirk Prospector
4 Mogg War Marshal
//Sideboard [15]
2 Tomod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Earwig Squad
3 Pyrokinesis
I dont think that i can totally agree with this list.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
Against Affinity and Merfolk it totally depends on the draws. If Affinity doesnt have a real quick start with many creatures oder Thopter+Equip Goblins is the Beatdown. And against Merfolk id say we´re more often in a control position, burning Fishs down with Incinerators and win via Ringleaders card draw.
Also i dont see where goblins isnt beatdown agains ANT or Tide, exept a few sb cards we have no way to interact with ANT.
Mogg Fanatic allows you to curve out better so you don't have to mulligan so much. That's all I got. Seems logical.Quote:
Originally Posted by pater
I went with 2 relic, 1 crypt after vengevine disappeared. I think it's safer to go wtih more relics because relic is a constant threat when it's on the board while crypt is kind of a one shot deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord