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I tend to shave 1-drops because chalice.
WRP is a nightmare for them, but not the end-all...thanks to dismember. But yea if he lives to make a few wolves, you're in great shape.
Reality smasher specifically is a problem tho, since block/bounce isn't viable vs him and he doesn't die to decay. I tested maelstrom pulse but it was clunky and can be countered by warping wail--so it's not the best, but an option worth looking at.
My list is slightly different (4 NO, 2 Arbor, no MD scooze). I like Scavenging Ooze in the matchup, I sideboard it in against pretty much every deck with Chalice of the Void simply because it's a two drop that I can natural order into Progenitus with (or in your case, get hoof/wrp). Eldrazi in particular will have some trouble with it if you can get a couple counters on it inthe games that develops slowly. I would side out a heritage druid over Birchlore Rangers, as you're siding into 4 black spells and you can sneak him underneath a chalice on one with his morph.Quote:
Originally Posted by parsimonious
Long time listener, first time caller...well sort of. I picked up both NO Elves and the pieces for Chaos Elves online around February and then traded into the deck in paper at GP Detroit in March. I absorbed every bit of content I could on the deck and have played it off and on since then, alternating with Modern. It is definitely the "funnest" deck I've ever played, and I feel like I'm pretty decent with the deck. I am however a little lacking in general Legacy experience and so I was hoping you all might be willing to help fill in my experience gaps.
I mostly play a standard NO Elves build http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/386252#online though I'm going to try the 61 cards w/3 Heritage Druid, a Reclamation Sage and a Sylvan Library tonight. I've also listed my sideboard below for easy reference. I have been playing 1 Cavern of Souls in the Pendelhaven slot as it seems there is not a lot at the top that Pendelhaven is good against right now.
1) Elderscale Wurm. What decks other than Burn is it good against?
2) Burn. How should I be approaching the Burn matchup both from a gameplay and sideboard perspective? I have found Burn to be a troublesome matchup. Lots of burn pointed at my creatures while they get in range with creatures of their own before going for the flurry finish. Burn is also somewhat popular in my local meta. I see lots of Grafdiggers Cage and Pyrokinesis out of the side.
3) Umezawa's Jitte. What decks, other than Elves, is it best against? (I assume it is only worth playing the grindier Chaos Builds)
4) Winter Orb. Which decks are we wanting to use this against? I love this card from Cube...just curious what it's best at hating on.
5) Shaman of the Pack. Just confirming it is not worthwhile in NO Elves? I feel like it would be a great one of to pair with Symbiote and Green Sun's Zenith, but I'm assuming others don't play it for a reason.
6) Pendelhaven. As noted I've replaced my copy in the main with Cavern of Souls. What matchups is it great in that I'm "likely" neglecting?
7) 61st Card. What would the 61st card you would add to your deck (assuming you're not exceeding 4 ofs)? IE What is the best card you are not playing.
I know that's a lot to ask, but I seriously love this deck and I just want to know what I don't know!!! Thanks again for any assistance.
My Sideboard:
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Progenitus
1) Elderscale Wurm. What decks other than Burn is it good against?
- Lands, dredge, UR delver, eldrazi, and mirror match
2) Burn. How should I be approaching the Burn matchup both from a gameplay and sideboard perspective? I have found Burn to be a troublesome matchup. Lots of burn pointed at my creatures while they get in range with creatures of their own before going for the flurry finish. Burn is also somewhat popular in my local meta. I see lots of Grafdiggers Cage and Pyrokinesis out of the side.
- pyrokinesis is annoying, but honestly unless they have 6-8 searing effects, it should be a favorable matchup. Best advice I can offer is that they don't have any real interaction with NO and little with glimpse (unless eidolon on field). Bringing in decays is a wise move, as their hate cards involve pyrostatic pillar, ensnaring bridge, grim lavamancer, and cage EDIT: also, scavenging ooze is a house vs them. they spend resources killing dudes, and you get to turn them into precious life points!
3) Umezawa's Jitte. What decks, other than Elves, is it best against? (I assume it is only worth playing the grindier Chaos Builds)
- delver decks, burn, decks without abrupt decay, and even some builds of miracles (wizards)...oh and kills MOM (so add DnT)
4) Winter Orb. Which decks are we wanting to use this against? I love this card from Cube...just curious what it's best at hating on.
- I've never seen this in elf sb...altho it doesn't seem terrible being as how our one land can be cradle... ;)
5) Shaman of the Pack. Just confirming it is not worthwhile in NO Elves? I feel like it would be a great one of to pair with Symbiote and Green Sun's Zenith, but I'm assuming others don't play it for a reason.
- gets around glacial chasm, moat, peacekeeper, and elderscale wurm(!)...but mostly the first 3. Also insane with cavern! so to answer your question, it can be played in either version of the deck IMO...it does fit better in chaos elves tho.
6) Pendelhaven. As noted I've replaced my copy in the main with Cavern of Souls. What matchups is it great in that I'm "likely" neglecting?
- punishing fire decks, decks with snapcaster, decks with containment priest, decks with forked bolt, can randomly save wirewood from a golgari charm (corner case, but still...makes their play pointless)
7) 61st Card. What would the 61st card you would add to your deck (assuming you're not exceeding 4 ofs)? IE What is the best card you are not playing.
- Nettle sentinel, NO, or q.ranger...assuming they are 3-ofs in your list. These cards should all be 4-ofs if you are running them, IMO. I am running 61, so for me it was the last NO. But if I were going to 62, it'd be WRP!!!
hopefully this helps ;)
Has anyone tried Duskwatch Recruiter yet? Seems pretty insane for the grindy plan. It's like running both parts of the best friends team in one card, kind of. I don't think I can run it main in my meta, but I feel like testing it in the board.
I wouldn't play it. It's a non-elf with a 3 mana ability which seems a bit much for legacy. Sylvan Library seems the more powerful version of the card since it also gets around Bolts etcQuote:
Originally Posted by .Ix
You realize Symbiote is a non-elf with a 2-mana ability, right? And that's only if Visionary is in play. Without its best friend, it really doesn't do much. WRP has a 3-mana ability that could actually be worse than Duskwatch in many matchups, and most people play it. I've goldfished it a little and it appears to be worth playtesting. I'll try it as the 61st card in a 20 land list.
Symbiote also contributes a lot of board control, makes SotP a card, breaks Recla Sage and turbocharges DRS into a Burn.dec simulator. With the Nettle-Heritage engine it can also generate a ton of mana. Drawing cards with Visionary is far from the only thing it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by .Ix
Right, but those are far less common and less important than the draw engine thing except in certain matchups. My point was that the things Voldimore mentioned are not relevant reasons to not run a card in Elves.
I don't have much to say about the recruiter and I'd be happy if someone properly test him. However the way you undersold the symbiote is just criminal. Bouncing visionary is just 20% of the goodness it provides.
Honestly, I havent done anything other than bounce Visionary or bounce other guys to make mana with it in a long time. I've barely played any non-combo matches with Elves since the beginning of the year. I board it out all the time.
Julian won 2-0 against storm on round 2 with Elves (Natural order)
Just wanted to say thanks Shagstaman for the response.
1) Elderscale Wurm - Eldrazi has been enough of a push to consider adding the Elderscale Wurm though it's good to know it helps in a close-ish matchup I believe we're favored in against Lands as well.
2) Burn - Against Burn it's good to hear bringing in Abrupt Decay and some of the things I wasn't thinking about. I had been bringing in 2 Decay Scooze and 3 Cabal on the draw, but Cabal doesn't seem great. I also think I need to play the Pithing Needle against Grim Lavamancer.
3) Umezawa's Jitte - Thank you for confirming the matchups it is good against are already matchups we're favored on w/NO Elves.
4) Winter's Orb - I've seen Julian side it in in some of his Twitter screenshots. I had been trying to think about different ways to fight our nemesis decks in Miracles, Storm, Reanimator, Sneak and Show. This one only really seems to help against Miracles though. Was considering if it'd be worth running 4x Lotus Petal and 4x Thorn of Amethyst in the side against those decks to help attack those decks w/T1 Thorns. Not sure if it's viable enough though.
5) Shaman of the Pack - I just feel like I want to try this as a 1 of to get some extra Symbiote action, plus it might speed up some of those Glimpse Chaiin kills.
6) Pendelhaven - Yeah seems the 1 of Cavern is more important right now.
7) 61st Card - Really enjoyed the 61 card build with Rec Sage and Sylvan Library in my last league. Allowed me to add the Elderscale to the sideboard.
anyone else notice that the 80 card elf deck won a GP trial (same deck from a few weeks ago)? would love to hear some stories behind this thing.
This guy is a madman. I'd love to see his thoughts on the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
11-4 at GP Columbus.
Two Byes
R3- D&T, Win
R4- Miracles, Loss
R5- Dredge, Loss
R6- BG Turbo Depths, Loss
R7- Enchantress, Win
R8- D&T, Win
R9- D&T, Win
Snuck into day 2, got lucky and got to play Death and Taxes a few times.
R10- Infect, Win
R11- Grixis Delver, Win
R12- ANT, Win
R13- Grixis Delver, Loss
R14- D&T, Win
R15- Sneak and Show, Win
Nice job! You were with the NO version? Classical list or some exotic stuff?Quote:
Originally Posted by abombdiggity
I posted back on page 306 and didn't make any changes other than a fetch for the second Cavern since then, it's fairly stock. 4 Natural Order, Reclamation Sage as the only non combo piece in the maindeck. 2 Cavern of Souls, 2 Arbor, 0 Pendelhaven. Packmaster out of the SB was phenomenal- would love to make room for it in the maindeck, but mana-wise I think the only real cut is NO and I really, really liked having all four this weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by benjiman13
Hello Guys,
I did a local legacy tournament today with the chaos elves build. (please keep in mind I hadn't played MTG in 3 or 4 months, did not test the deck and it was my first time playing chaos elves).
Won my first game against Eldrazi 2-0
Lost my second game against Delver and over 14 counter spells on his side 0-2
Lost my second game against Jund 1-2 (Very close, lost on one life)
Won my last game against Delver 2-0
I played 21 lands today and had a lot of games where I found myself with 3 land cards in my hand and drawing a land when I needed anything but mana.
So having my doubts about the manabase.
Shaman of the Pack and Wren's Run Packmaster were AMAZING! Bouncing shaman combined with deathrite shaman's ability or attacking every turn for 3 or 4 really stacks up. I ran two SotP today in case one got countered (seriously doubted switching it for elderscale wurm though).
I did miss the natural orders sometimes. Though there was a lot of counter magic going around, so I doubt it would've come through.
Anybody yet tested playing 3 NO and a crater hoof AND the SotP? Maybe sideboarding the NO out after game/win 1?
Just having my doubts about my flex slot -> SotP or scavenging ooze or titania or jitte or elderscale wurm.
2#Dryad Arbor
4#Gaea’s Cradle
1#Pendelhaven
2#Forest
2#Cavern of Souls
3#Windswept Heath
3#Wooded Foothills
1#Misty Rainforest
1#Verdant Catacombs
2#Bayou
3#Heritage Druid
4#Wirewood Symbiote
4#Quirion Ranger
4#Nettle Sentinel
1#Birchlore Rangers
1#Craterhoof Behemoth
4#Elvish Visionary
4#Deathrite Shaman
1#Llanowar Elves
1#Reclamation Sage
4#Green Sun’s Zenith
4#Glimpse of Nature
1#Sylvan Library
1#Wren’s Run Packmaster
2#Shaman of the Pack
// sideboard
1#Reclamation Sage
3#Abrupt Decay
1#Elvish Champion
2#Cabal Therapy
2#Thoughtseize
2#Pithing Needle
2#Choke
1#Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1#Krosan Grip
Side boarding abrupt decays in was really helpful. Might consider going to 4. Thoughtseize and cabal were good aswel.
All tips or suggestions are welcome!
Keep in mind: this was my first time ever playing the list. I always played NO Elves! (and I only play magic from time to time for fun).
The 1st elves player is 35th (NO list) and 40th (the choas list) for GP prague
Deck Maco Monno :
Spells Lands Sideboard 2 Dryad Arbor
1 Birchlore Rangers
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Quirion Ranger
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Regal Force
1 Shaman of the Pack
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order2 Bayou
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Forest
4 Gaea's Cradle
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Taiga3 Abrupt Decay
1 Choke
2 Pithing Needle
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Thoughtseize
1 Progénitus
1 Worldspine Wurm
Deck Elias Klocker
Spells Lands Sideboard 1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Nettle Sentinel
2 Birchlore Rangers
3 Heritage Druid
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Shaman of the Pack
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Quirion Ranger
1 Wren's Run Packmaster
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Glimpse of Nature
1 Crop Rotation4 Gaea's Cradle
1 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Pendelhaven
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Verdant Catacombs3 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Armageddon
1 Karakas