you can replace one draw with one dredge. You dredge the dredge number on the card, for example Golgari Thug is dredge 4 so you put 4 cards in your graveyard for one draw.
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you can replace one draw with one dredge. You dredge the dredge number on the card, for example Golgari Thug is dredge 4 so you put 4 cards in your graveyard for one draw.
Alright Parcher, that sounds just logical. But then Iīve got another one for you: Letīs say we side for g2 against Zoo. We do like:
-3 Unmask -1 DA -1 Hypnotist -1 LED +3 Tribe +3 Grudge. Now weīve still got 3 LED left, would you side CoV to be on the "safe" side even if they have leyline or just keep the chance of "killing" t1 if they havenīt got the crypt? Iīd say we keep some LEDs...
Against anything blue I guess we just keep Unmask in then? Apart from that, the sideboard plans pretty much stay the same I guess...
I can't envision any Zoo deck running Leyline. And yes, I'd keep some LEDs against them. More for the ability to instantly combo off in conjunction with a Coliseum(they dn't run Wasteland), or a Breakthrough after they crack a Crypt, than on the 1st turn. I've had too many games where I dump half my deck and clear their hate in Game Three on turn one, only to have them top deck Crypt immediately. You rarely can afford to play around it, but landing a first turn Tribe or PImp against Zoo is usually better than going all-in post-board. Te deck just becomes too diluted after boarding to easily get the immediate win/lock.
How do we side against Enchantress? Iīm not sure whether itīs better to just keep our MD as it is and opt for the fast kill or to try to get some answers with Chains/Wispmare. Imho itīs better to keep the MD and just hope because they have so many ways of getting us out of the game that itīs easier to therapy them and go for a t1-3 kill, isnīt it?
Parcher, are you sure that Wispmare is good enough to warrant a slot? Iīd also like the fourth Unmask to fight ANT, but I havenīt enough time to test a 1-off-sbslot (means some weeks).
In the NA Mid-Atlantic, GY based decks are at an all time high; and so is GY hate. That SB is based accordingly. I never have a problem with beating Combo, so my judgement might be off. And I do bring in Chain against Enchantress just because we are not fast enough if they can drop the turn one Sprawl, turn two Grass, and support it.
Alright, but what do we take out then? I like Unmask as well as LED, Iīd probably take out 1 Ichorid 1 BfB 1 LED, but then it getīs difficult. Sorry for asking that much, but that is one of the matchups I havenīt tested and I want to be prepared for this weekend.
If I top8, youīll get all the credit :tongue:
Take out the one DA, the 12th land (a City, if you switched the City to the main for the 2nd DA like I suggested), since they have no LD, and you can both can't keep a no-lander post-board, and can cast Chain with anything; one LED, and one Bridge or Ichorid. You can't remove a DR even though you only need two, in case you have to pitch one to an early Unmask, and even though the tokens may speed a DR, you'll never be able to attack with them. So I'd probably go with Bridge as the fourth.
If they only have Grass/Confinement, and no Moat, I'd keep the LED though, since you can swing through Grass with a Troll+LED for the win. That and an early Chain have been how I usually get a quick win. Also, after Wheel (post-board, anyway),your first Therapy target should be Halo. Since not only can it shut off your other Therapies, it can nix an all-in with Troll or Iona if they have them in multiples.
DA speeds up our clock, but it sounds logical to keep as much DR-Enablers(Ichorid) as possible.
Allright, thatīs all imho. Iīm going to play your "new" 75 saturday with 3 Byes. Letīs see what happens :)
Thanks for everything!
Thoughts on siding in leyline against zoo to counter the fact that they can kill off creatures pretty much on a whim?
Small local weekly tournament, 18 players, 5 rounds for a cut to top 4. Meta usually 30% BG rock, 20% folk, 20% zoo. Played pretty much Parcher's but with 1 iona and 1 hypnotist as DR targets and 3 studies instead of unmasks.
R1 Jeff playing BU CB-top fae
G1 (him 20 18 15, me 20 19 18): Therapy saw edict in his hand, 3rd turn Iona names black. He scoops never having played a creature or bitterblossom.
G2 (him 20 19 14 13 9 8 3 2, me 20): +2 grudge +3 firestorm +1 CoB. He has turn 1 crypt. I hardcast grudge it turn 2. He FoWs my first 2 attempts to therapy myself as I tried to get a dredger in the GY. I eventually do. Pretty sure he topped 50 times trying to find his 2 other crypts. He has no creatures on the board all game, and sets up CB+top the turn before my ichorids, narcs, and zombies finally get there.
1-0 (2-0)
R2 Sam playing ANT
G1 (him 20 14 13 2, me 20 17) - He's a friend but doesn't tell me what he's playing despite being apparently so quick with his match that he was able to watch me R1 and see I was playing dredge. I win the roll and elect to play because I smell combo. I get him down to 13 turn 3 with ichorids. At the end of that turn he decides for 5 minutes whether to crack his fetch and play a brainstorm, for which I give him a hard time and rightfully so. He plays petals, led, and a fetch. He plays ad naus with BBB floating at storm 6. He sees rituals, tutors, and a ponder at 3 life. He cracks his fetch and ponders, then scoops.
G2 (him 20 19, me 20) - +1 unmask +1 chosen. I unmask 1st turn, he brainstorms in response and I see petals and IGG and think oh nos. He has 2nd turn ad naus.
G3 (him 20, me 20) - I have therapy but elect to play imp 1st turn because have a dredger and the breakthrough, he has the 1st turn LED and inf tutor for ad naus, I don't feel as bad for not playing therapy.
1-1 (3-2)
R3 Randy playing pox
g1 (him 20 19 16, me 20 19 17 16) - Turn 2 he smallpoxes taking out his bloodghast and taking out my coliseum and 2 bridges. I have a couple zombies, a 17/17 troll, and ichorids in my GY by turn 4. His bloodghast chooses to stay in his GY where it belongs. I therapy him naming deed and goyf before realizing he took green out of his deck this week. Zombies get there.
g2 (him 20 19 18 17 16, me 20 19 18 17 16) - No SB because I know he only has GY hate in the form of 3 or so crypts and no leylines, but I forget about extirpates. He mulls to 4, has one land all game. I keep a hand of study, narc, land, coliseum, dredger, therapy, and sadistic. I therapy him turn 2 or 3 and see a hand of 2 abyssals, 2 nighthawks, 1 therapy. He extirpates my bridges some turn later but he really had no hope having never drawn a 2nd land. I ping him 5 turns with a hardcast narc before he scoops after my coliseum puts a bunch of goodies in my GY.
2-1 (5-2)
R4 Matt playing elfball
G1 (him 20, me 20) - I win the roll and have turn 2 Iona.
G2 (him 20, 18, 17, 15, 14, 7, me 20) - +2 grudge +3 firestorm +1 CoB. He mulls to 6. He has 5 elves on turn 2, then passes. On my turn I firestorm discarding 5, he's in disbelief. I later hardcast therapy successfully netting glimpse. By turn 6 or so I DR Iona and get 12 zombies.
3-1 (7-2)
R5 Jeff playing enchantress
G1 (him 20 19, me 20) - A friend who's playing Sam's deck, so I know the exact decklist which runs 1 halo 1 blood moon 1 sigil 1 moat maindeck. We're both 3-1, we have to play it out as I can draw into top 4 but he can't. He wins the roll and plays utopia sprawl, pass. I play land, LED, breakthrough, crack LED in response, put 20 cards in the GY but no narc, have to pass. He plays elephant grass. I dredge, unsuccessfully therapy him seeing moat, wild growth, elephant grass, lands. I DR Iona naming white knowing his only outs are o-rings, and therapy #2 and #3 him strips both green cards. He scoops.
G2 (him 20, me 20) - +1 ray of revelation. He bemoans how terrible Sam's deck's SB is and chooses to SB in 1 card which he shows me is ground seal, but I know sam also has a compost in there so I try to act nonchalantly. He mulls to 4, I show him a land of LED, study, land, coliseum, and dredgers. He scoops.
4-1 (9-2)
Sam was one of the best players in the tourney so I have no trouble knowing that my only two losses were to him. Top 4 was affinity, 43 lands w/scapeshift and treasure hunt, ANT, and me. It was midnight and we did not want to play till 2am (though our decks wouldn't take that long). We split and call it a night.
NQN is doing good at the GP right now.
He gathered 36 points so far!
Went 13-4 after loosing the last round for top16/maybe top8. Finished 26th, little report will follow after Iīve slept :=)
Here we go:
First of all I spent my Byes to get my luggage back which stayed in Amsterdam, then after ~6 hours we started Round 4
Day1
R4: Supreme Blue 2-0
R5: Uw Faeries Mulled to oblivion and didnīt cast 1 Spell g1, had the nuts hand after two mulligans g2 but he just layed down one of his three! Leylines+Force backup 0-2
R6: Merrows 2-0
R7: Rock e 2-0
R8: BantSurvival 1 3 Mulligans g2, 2 in g3 lost with Iona on green since he had 1 Trinket for the Crypt after topdecking a creature for the survival one turn before I could kill him 1-2
R9: UB Reanimator G1 he went for t2 Sphinx, g2&g3 neither of us managed to get a Leyline in play but I had the chain for Archon 2-1
7-2 9-5
Day2
R1: Uw Merrows Bad Player, nice hands 2-0
R2: MUC with Energy Field He Told me that he has no hate so I sided Chains, he went for Island, double Crypt. I had P.Imp so he obv had no chance 2-0
R3: Merrows g1 FTK, g2 He mulled to 3 FoW 1 Relic 1 Merfolk, I had therapy+Tribe.
R4: ANT Lucked pretty hard g2 after I mulled to 4 and still won via DDD :D 2-0
R5: BantProgenitus (Paulo..DaRosa) Surprised me with Wheel g2, I had the t2 kill with Unmask Backup, won g3 against Crypt+Relic 2-1
R6: Zoo 7 Mulligans+him having hatecards immediatly 1-2
R7: ANT Again, lucked my way through g2 and won g3 on the back of him keeping a slow hand 2-0
R8: CounterTop Kept 7 with LED+Land g1 because I wanted to go DDD against him, he just went Goyf,Goyf,Goyf and I dredged 1 Ichorid+lands in 18 cards. NExt dredge wouldīve been 2 Narco 3 Bridge. G2 I emptied his hand, put my hand in the bin with Coliseum at the table. He drew BS, got the Crypt and beat me down after BT+Coliseum didnt find anything in 6 turns. 0-2
Day2
6-2 13-5
10-4 21-10 in total plus Byes.
To sum up, the deck was awesome again. The matches I lost were due to 7-8 Mulligans or just finding nothing. THerfor I lucked hard against the two ANT guys so I think itīs just fair enough. Every Opponent had 4+ Hatecards, two times Leylines, two times Trap. I did one FTK, some second rounders but most of the time I just went for the Ichorid route. LED was underperforming but was still alright. I played Parchers newest list with -1 Wispmare +1 Grudge.
Funny sidenote: I had aching muscles after the 16th round because I did most of the mulligans during the last 4 :D
Greetz,
NQN
I just realized I have a playset of Bridges, Nacros, DReturns, PImps and Ghasts.
What is the current decklist for this deck?
Also, is there a build that doesnt utilize Ghasts? (I know I have them but Undiscovered Paradise is scarce in my area, and expensive online)
Any advises against hate? How good is this deck if you know know one runs grave hate? How do you get around Mogg Fanatics/Cursecatchers (I run both Goblin and Merfolks and this has always my tech against Dredge)
Congrats Jan! I still would have run more Leyline removal, but that's a better result than I ever had with the deck in a tournament (outside of going 9-0 without dropping a game one time). So I can't argue with the results.
Always keep in mind, whether LED has an impact in the actual game, it does make your opponents play differently. Especially Combo. The fear they have of that extra speed the other versions can't obtain will often cause misplays and mulligans that you will never see from them otherwise. In addition to the brokeness it get when you actually use it, of course.
Great job NQN, glad to see you did well!
If you guys were using leyline in your sideboard, what matchups would you bring it in against? Obviously the mirror, but then what else?
Reanimator and maybe Loam-engine decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by junkdiver
Since Loam/x usually brings leyline as their hate, I prefer to just side chains and keep Unmasks in the main. Siding 8 cards really weakens the decks strategy.
Ok cool.
What about against maybe zoo? They have so many ways to kill bridges, and it would nerf their lavamancers, and potentially goyfs after they hate away your yard?
Just an idea, I hate playing against red because they keep me zombie free too easily games 2 and 3, but it is probably not worth the 4 spots.
Also what about crucible decks? Like against lands and stax even maybe. Stax would not be able to handle it's own smoke stack as well and the wasteland recursion gets shut down, but again I don't know if that enough to warrant four slots, just throwing around ideas.
You only want Leyline in matchups were it read "Win" because it weakens your opening hands. Against Ichorid f.e. you can keep Leyline+"not the best" because itīs worth it. You canīt do that against the decks you mentioned. Speaking of Zoo and R/x in generel: I donīt see them killing their creatures beeing a big problem for us. We can still beat them with Ichorids, DR huge Trolls/Iona or just empty their hand via therapys.
Remember that every creature they kill (lets say with L.Bolt) means -1 handcard, -1 attacker/blocker and -2 CA in total.
Staxx is already a horrible matchup, just side Chains and hope for the best/keep your MD and do the same on the play.