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@ waikiki: first of all congratz on you're result! I also played 3C TES going 4-2 (losing a game to a stupid mistake).
I have a question about your 2nd game in the quarter finals against thopther foundry: at a certain moment you played B. Wish with 5 (or 6) storm going for Igg which resulted in getting nowhere. I just wondered why you didn't go for empty the warrens with your burning wish (or even burning wish > infernal tutor > ETW).
because he had an EE for 0 into play.
I had no out thnx to his beatdown my only out was to resolve doomsday that turn or tendrils him out. I was actually 1 mana short in pulling it of so I had to hope he just forced the deathmark which afcorse he didn't.
@ZZZ, since I played against blue the entire tournament I didnt really notice anything different. Just the regular force / daze / pierce / I had to play against alot of hatebears aswell.
ow ok I hadn't noticed the EE, then the situation was very bad indeed.
It was very unlucky since I started the game with duress seeing lands brainstorm thopter EE. I took the brainstorm and passed.
He draw play land go. So I went of my turn. Like a pro he topdecked spell pierce.
I think we're both right. The GP is expected to be +2,000 people. How many of them are actually going to be legacy players? Probably only about 800 or so. That leaves about 200 for random janky decks, and then I suspect about 1,000 or more casual converted to legacy decks. The easiest ones to do this to are Merfolk, Goblins, and Zoo. Not many people say "Oh hey, I just need a few more stifles and my casual new horizons deck will be legacy playable." The first 5-6 rounds I think will be mostly merfolk, goblins, and zoo. But since most people are expecting them they'll get hated out by the better decks, such as New Horizons. After those first rounds and especially day 2, there will be a lot of tempo decks that were able to hate aggro out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
One other thought, the converted mana cost of the deck is roughly 52. B/U ANT was 55. What do you think of removing a burning wish for a 2nd Ad Nauseam main deck? 2 Ad Nauseams makes you twice as likely to draw it in your opening 7, hit it off brainstorm/ponder, or draw it with diminishing returns (not to mention make you more reliable should it get removed).
OMG IT COSTS TWO?!? Totally missed that! Thank you!!Quote:
Originally Posted by JeroenC
I reffered to cabal ritual as the best post-AN ritual because it adds more mana than any other single ritual
I already run 2 Ad Nauseam, that works just fine. If you want my list, feel free to PM. I won't clutter the thread with a pretty standard list.
About ritual: I explained why that additional mana is not worth the one life for me. So maybe read past the first sentence of a paragraph.
I've been testing this deck a bit as of late and will probably give it a spin in some Friday trials before the GP. Couple quick questions - how often do people mulligan? I feel like I'm continually drawing opening hands without either LED or DRit (playing the MD from the OP) and they just don't have enough gas to get there. Brainstorm/Ponder do help but I feel like I don't really want to trust myself to raw draw into 3+ mana from ~3 draw steps (is that wrong?).
How much mana (and what colors) do you need to have floating to make DReturns an attractive option - for decks with coutnermagic and without? I haven't been able to reliably pull out wins with less than 2 mana floating pre-DReturns - and even then I feel as though I need to get really lucky to win.
I like the idea of a more "fetchable" manabase, but I dislike losing to stifle decks. What it comes down to in my mind is... are the 2 basics worth all of trouble? I don't think they are. I'd rather be able to cast everything including Chant.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonBarber
Never cut a Burning Wish, it's the second most powerful card in the deck.
Two Ad Nauseam is alright, I feel like if you were to play it, you'd have to cut Empty the Warrens. But the second Nauseam isn't nessessary, while maindedk Empty has won me sooo many games. [See my latest feature match]
Cool, Cabal Ritual is good when you're already winning. Sweeet. Dark Ritual and Rite of Flame are better pre-Nauseam, ya know, when it matters.Quote:
OMG IT COSTS TWO?!? Totally missed that! Thank you!!
I reffered to cabal ritual as the best post-AN ritual because it adds more mana than any other single ritual
I'm pretty lazy with my Mulligans. The hand doesn't have to be a turn 1-2 all of the time, it's alright to shape it up with cantrips. After all that's why it's there. This deck isn't like ichorid (where you're coming from), where your opening hand is everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshine
I like to leave UB floating when I cast returns. If you can leave more, great. But it shouldn't be a part of your decision making. If it's time to win, it's time to win.
I also keep a lot of very "speculative" hands with this deck. I'm more willing to mulligan against Zoo, Goblins, non-FOW aggro then I am when paired against Force of Will/Hymn to Tourach decks. I probably mulligan less than 10% of my hands. I tend to keep a lot of hands that many players snap-mulligan, like: 2 lands, duress, rite, dark ritual, LED, Mox. Not claiming it's technically right, but it's just how I roll I guess :shrugQuote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
For returns, I prefer to have UB floating as well. If I can have 3 mana I prefer UUB to UBB, but like Bryant said, usually when you're going for Returns, you kinda just have to go for it regardless of what you have floating.
Those estimates seem absurd I have played the last Columbus and Chicago Legacy Grand Prix and I can only remember playing one slapped together non recognizable deck in both GPs. Now I could see the numbers being more accurate if I was making second day and never played loser bracket matches. But honestly I didn't do all that well at either one so I should have seen some crazy non "Established Decks" or tinkered up casual decks. And yes Goblins and Merfolk will be there and some piloted by less than capable players but Aggro decks will make it to the top 16.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonBarber
Also there will be bad combo players galore as always. Flash Hulk players in 2007 would get flash to resolve and thought the game was over I can't tell you how many people didn't know how to finish that combo. Its a whole lot easier to bash with a goyf than to combo out so good luck to all, adn may your Adnas be fruitful and your rituals plenty.
I feel like the 2007 meta is not comparable to the current meta. And "random janky decks" is a very loose term. It can refer to T2/Extended/ or just poorly put together decks. I think there will be 800 tuned, compenent legacy players. And then about 1,000 semi competitive, but slightly more casual players/decks. I don't doubt there will be combo, and I'm positive aggro will make top 16. But I also expect tempo decks to do well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesper Ghoul
Thoughts/opinions about using Turbulent Dreams instead of Eye of Nowhere on the sb?
I don't run Eye anymore atm(often thought it was a lot too clunky), but if I would I wouldn't change it out for that. Eye is something you usually need before AN and then I usually don't have cards I like discarding. If there's multiple stuff to bounce, you probably need to discard more cards than you have at that time, and definitely more than you can spare. Possibly better to go off before you're in the corner where you need to bounce multiple things.
You don't count the first Ad Nauseam when calculating total mana cost from Ad Nauseam's perspective because you can't flip it to itself. My 3c TES build successfully plays 2 AdN and has the same total mana cost as Bryant's building playing 1 (the reason is that he plays an ETW and an extra protection spell to my 2nd AdN and 14th land). The total CMC of either build is 48 less one Ad Nauseam. Saito's list (the classic UB list) ran at 49 less an Ad Nauseam.
I'm going to the Gp where there will be randomness and bad pilots in the early rounds. I don't want to be forced to Duress, Warrens, upkeep Chant against White Leyline. When I can Ad Nauseam, Wish, Bounce, win.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeroenC
Or against reanimator, bounce Iona.
I've started using the doomsday + Shelldock isle sideboard and one cool thing i've found is that I can make a lot of the good doomsday piles with it as a wish target. I'm running IGGY main because of it.
Some of the piles are;
brainstorm in hand, 2 cards in hand, and UU
led
brainstorm
led
IGGY
tendrils
(requires one of the following in your hand and you have to pass the turn)
Brainstorm
led
cantrip
led
burning wish(for IGGY)
burning wish(for tendrils)
This looks mana intensive but it just requires UUR
Defiantly reason to consider emrakul, the aeons torn+ shelldock isle as a doomsday side board option.
So, I love how in Evan Erwin's preview of Columbus, he mentions this deck as the newest incarnation of ANT and even has Bryant's current decklist labelled:
"Ad Nauseam Tendrils
Suggested by Evan Erwin on 2010-07-25 as a potential deck for Legacy"
Yeah, keep it real there, homeboy.
Just figured y'all would get a kick out of that.
For those to lazy to click:
Quote:
But that isn’t the only combo in the format, how’s Ad Nauseam Tendrils looking these days? We go to Magic Online to find out:
[decklist]
This deck did well in a recent daily event, and as you can see this deck has survived even without the now-banned Mystical Tutor. The idea, of course, is to use your mana acceleration to bust out an Ad Nauseam, drawing you oodles of cards with very little life loss, as your deck is incredibly cheap apart from the marquee spell, and using all of these new cards which give you all of this mana and card selection to build a storm count big enough to Tendrils of Agony their face off or make a billion Empty the Warrens tokens. This, as it turns out, is a very robust and far more difficult to disrupt than it appears. I’ve seen plenty of these decks have their first go at comboing off fizzled or countered, only to do it again the following turn for the win. They also have the ability to strip that Force of Will you’ve been sandbagging thanks to their full complement of Duress, and their sideboard gives them plenty of Blue hate like Red Elemental Blast, along with the ability to get rid of pesky cards like Chalice of the Void thanks to Chain of Vapor or Echoing Truth. Nice Gaddock Teeg, please bounce it so I can kill you now.
This is the premier combo deck of the format, and you need to be prepared for it. I can guarantee that at a sixteen-plus round tournament like a Grand Prix, odds are this will be sitting across from you at some point, so make sure you have a plan.
Hey, it's not his current list... there's bad cards in the sideboard!Quote:
Originally Posted by MMogg
Sounds like a plan...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchainmail
The sideboard has 1 card different. 14 of the other 15 slots are identical. :confused:
Could you post/PM your decklist?Quote:
Originally Posted by median