[Deck] Elves Combo

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Originally Posted by k2thej

Ya that is why I play 7 fetch and 6 forest. 13 lands is good for me. Sometimes I mull with no lands but it's infrequent. It really helps thin out the deck.

This is another reason to play 4 quirion ranger, It turns a llanowar and a forest into 4 mana if you have one land hand (which I usually do)

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Thanks for the reply. It's amazing how many 2-land starting hands I've had with 15 lands, but I was always erring on the side of 2 lands is better than none. One is best, but topping a 2nd land on turns 3-4 aren't bad if you've already got the gas to combo out.

Yes, I use 4x Quirion Ranger. I think the only variation for my deck is that I'm still using Grapeshot as my win condition instead of emrakul, which means I don't use Living Wish/Gaea's Cradle/Priest of Titania and instead put 4x all of the utility creatures for the sake of consistency. My real upgrade would come from 3x Elvish Archdruid over Imperious Perfect, essentially giving me the maindeck lord I need for the aggro alternative win while also powering out Regal Force easier. I may switch over to Tendrils of Agony as a win/con with Archdruid, TBH. My experience without Priest of Titania/Elvish Archrdruid is that you don't typically have a lot of spare mana available while combo-ing out...but you can combo out in one turn. With Priest/Archrduid you can power out a lot more stuff (the main target being Emrakul)

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Originally Posted by NihilObstat

So, on another topic. What do you guys run in the sideboard? What are the general cards? Do you all play Jitte or not? Because I don't but maybe it's a good idea against control.

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I don't like Jitte against control. Jitte really shines in the aggro matchups, especially in mono-colored decks like Elves and Fish which traditionally don't splash for removal. It's the removal that Jitte brings that makes it so good in the matchups that count. This is just my experience...Jitte with an empty board is a wasted draw.

My current sideboard looks like this:

1x Vexing Shusher
1x Viridian Shaman
3x Winter Orb
4x Autumn's Veil
3x Tormod's Crypt
2x Mindbreak Trap
1x Elvish Champion

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

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3x Winter Orb
4x Autumn's Veil

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I haven't seen this options in the SB but sounds well. Specially I thought in Autumn's Veil opening M11 boosters...

Winter Orb is marvellous, we only need a land to play out.

So when I saw Time Spiral coming off the banned list, the firsti thing I thought was High Tide combo, but then somebody mentioned there is no Academy to untap... but Elves has an Academy! This is the first iteration of the idea I had. I have tweaked it a bit, but it is no way optimal yet. Here's the list:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [ST] Forest (1)
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [U] Tropical Island
2 [US] Gaea's Cradle

// Creatures
3 [EVG] Wirewood Symbiote
2 [FNM] Quirion Ranger
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [ALA] Elvish Visionary
2 [EVE] Regal Force
4 [EVE] Nettle Sentinel
4 [MOR] Heritage Druid
4 [ON] Birchlore Rangers
4 [DM] Fyndhorn Elves
4 [6E] Llanowar Elves

// Spells
2 [RAV] Cloudstone Curio
2 [MM] Land Grant
2 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Glimpse of Nature
4 [US] Time Spiral

I have been goldfishing turns 3-4 consistently, with turn 2 definitely an option sometimes. Crop Rotation is definitely correct in this deck because of the Spiral. You can shuffle and draw several times so saccing your first Cradle for the second and then repeating later is very possible. The Curio I stole from a recent SCG article and it has worked out pretty well. I noticed most games end with me having about 6 cards left in my library and casting Emrakul. Curio makes it possible to cast Emrakul several times in a turn so you can guarantee to get the 2 swings necessary for the wil. I do want another win condition but haven't figured out what would work well. A single Brain Freeze could work. I would probably have a man-plan in the board since this deck has no lords MD. Definitely test this deck out and see what you think. I think it's got potential, it's a lot more consistent than other elf combo I've tried in the past.

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Originally Posted by bigbear102

So when I saw Time Spiral coming off the banned list, the firsti thing I thought was High Tide combo, but then somebody mentioned there is no Academy to untap... but Elves has an Academy! This is the first iteration of the idea I had. I have tweaked it a bit, but it is no way optimal yet. Here's the list:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [ST] Forest (1)
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [U] Tropical Island
2 [US] Gaea's Cradle

// Creatures
3 [EVG] Wirewood Symbiote
2 [FNM] Quirion Ranger
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [ALA] Elvish Visionary
2 [EVE] Regal Force
4 [EVE] Nettle Sentinel
4 [MOR] Heritage Druid
4 [ON] Birchlore Rangers
4 [DM] Fyndhorn Elves
4 [6E] Llanowar Elves

// Spells
2 [RAV] Cloudstone Curio
2 [MM] Land Grant
2 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Glimpse of Nature
4 [US] Time Spiral

I have been goldfishing turns 3-4 consistently, with turn 2 definitely an option sometimes. Crop Rotation is definitely correct in this deck because of the Spiral. You can shuffle and draw several times so saccing your first Cradle for the second and then repeating later is very possible. The Curio I stole from a recent SCG article and it has worked out pretty well. I noticed most games end with me having about 6 cards left in my library and casting Emrakul. Curio makes it possible to cast Emrakul several times in a turn so you can guarantee to get the 2 swings necessary for the wil. I do want another win condition but haven't figured out what would work well. A single Brain Freeze could work. I would probably have a man-plan in the board since this deck has no lords MD. Definitely test this deck out and see what you think. I think it's got potential, it's a lot more consistent than other elf combo I've tried in the past.

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Doesn't need Summoner's Pact?

It may, but you have Regal force, Time Spiral, and glimpse to mini-combo and all 3 allow you to do so and recover without really hurting yourself, glimpse is the toughest to come back from because you can fizzle. Pact couldn't hurt, but I haven't missed it at all.

Do people still run NO+Prog?

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Originally Posted by AznSeal

Do people still run NO+Prog?

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I think NO+Porg it's more suitable of the aggro version of Elves, as a second win condition, or in a Survival deck in the SB. In combo we must to maximize the slots to do the combo more reliable.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

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3x Winter Orb
4x Autumn's Veil
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WO - I prefer to use Thorn of Amethyst, which hurts combo
AV - Sounds great, I didn't remember it, I'll give it a try

one more question. ive been splashing black for thoughsieze and i think it's amazing. Is the splash recommended?

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Originally Posted by AznSeal

one more question. ive been splashing black for thoughsieze and i think it's amazing. Is the splash recommended?

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This. Also, if you sideboard to go aggro, wouldn't black help you?

Biggest problem with Autumn's Veil is that it does nothing against an active Counterbalance.

Both K-Grip and Leyline get around Counterbalance and allow you to switch plans or ignore the card.

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Originally Posted by rukcus

Biggest problem with Autumn's Veil is that it does nothing against an active Counterbalance.

Both K-Grip and Leyline get around Counterbalance and allow you to switch plans or ignore the card.

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Ya, autumn's veil isn't worth playing.

Why not Leyline of Lifeforce? 2GG isn't that tough to cast with the mana that this deck can produce. I guess they can still counter your glimpse, but maybe have a SB of aggro-elves with Leyline against blue decks? Is this deck capable of racing Tendrils-combo or do we accept that as a bad matchup?

@ Tendrils match-up:
It depends. If you run Thorns of Amethyst, then there's an outside shot that you might be able to slow them down enough to do your aggro plan going. I'm thinking that for this matchup specifically, I want to run Elvish Spirit Guide to accelerate any sort of plan. The half-turn makes a big different.

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Originally Posted by NihilObstat

WO - I prefer to use Thorn of Amethyst, which hurts combo
AV - Sounds great, I didn't remember it, I'll give it a try

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Winter Orb was a nod to the fact that I see a LOT more traditional decks (aggro and control) rather than combo. If I saw a lot more combo, Thorn is the way to go.

Autumn's Veil is narrow, but again, I was more worried about Perish and Force of Will than I was about Counterbalance, based on the decks I faced. The sideboard hasn't been updated in over a month.

I'm actually debating Gleeful Sabotage for artifact/enchantment hate. The hard copy can be countered with Counterbalance, but the copy cannot because it isn't played, but rather put directly onto the stack. They could still Force of Will it, but by that time you've only spent one card and you've made them use a functional TON of resources. At 2 mana, it's a little easier to pull off than Krosan Grip and still allow you to get a play in (like maybe Glimpse of Nature after they piss out their mana/Forces trying to hold off Gleeful Sabotage)

Autumn's Veil still does nothing against Perish. It is not useful for this deck.

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Originally Posted by rukcus

Autumn's Veil still does nothing against Perish. It is not useful for this deck.

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Duh. Thanks! I really noob-tarded that comment, lol.

How about Gleeful Sabotage? Anyone else eyeballing this card for sideboard hate?

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Originally Posted by rukcus

Autumn's Veil still does nothing against Perish. It is not useful for this deck.

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I agree with that but Autumn's Veil is valid for both blue and black menaces and it's so versatile... Mass removal is a problem, but I'm of the opinion that best thing to do is playing all (or almost all) in the turn we think we can combo out.

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Originally Posted by abel_lg

I agree with that but Autumn's Veil is valid for both blue and black menaces and it's so versatile... Mass removal is a problem, but I'm of the opinion that best thing to do is playing all (or almost all) in the turn we think we can combo out.

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Unless you are up against discard, you absolutely want to hold as many guys as you can until you combo, but autumn's veil still does not offer anything that leyline and fecundity don't already offer.