With Rest in Peace coming up, do you think Manaless Ichorid will be more affected by it than Mana Dredge/the Quad Laser lists?
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With Rest in Peace coming up, do you think Manaless Ichorid will be more affected by it than Mana Dredge/the Quad Laser lists?
Rest in Peace is a card that will see fringe play. It costs two to play, so it isn't getting "cheated" into play like Leyline would. It won't be any more than a one or two-of in sideboards of decks that play Enlightened Tutor, and it's a card that can be destroyed by Nature's Claim and Reverent Silence. It might be maxed out in Helm decks trying to be good, but that will fade into obscurity when people realize it isn't all that good.Quote:
Originally Posted by sherko7
Decks that will be abusing this strategy probably won't be using blue all that much anyhow, so no, I don't see it as a problem anymore than any of the other sideboard cards that give the deck fits as it is. It's just a new card so it will see a spike in play to being with, that's all.
I am mainly afraid of not being able to kill Platinum Emperion with the protection of Chalice of the Void @ 1 (stops Nature's Claim) vs. MUD. The only other option I see it to burn Platinum Emperion with Flayer. MUD Stompy is actually my primary deck, and Platinum Emperion usually results a concession against the Dredge player, unless they board in artifact hate. But I have Chalice and Trinisphere to stop that from happening.
again chalice is not a problem w/ manaless dredge. thre real problem is when a stax player played plat emperion + lodestone golem. then we cant DR flayer for win, :cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
Sickening Shoal with Griselbrand might also work if they did't board out their Chalice.Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
I like to use 4 Call to the Netherworld to recycle Street Wraith. You can recycle milled/used Wraith to speed the mills. You can discard it during your end phase, cast by madness, recycle the Wraith and you can even discard your dredge from your hand. Or if the opponent use surgical extraction targetting Ichorid you can save it by Phantasmagorian discard eff.
Have someone tested Spinning Darkness and/or Unmask Main/Side?
nice idea about call to the underworld. :tongue: but i like gitaxian probe more :laugh: . but ill give it a try :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by nakazkirai
In the decks running Dryad Arbor like Hollywoods' list;
Has anyone tried running Carpet of Flowers against blue decks post SB?
Just an idle thought, I haven't tested it, but I was wondering if it may be an additional way to help playing through graveyard hate like Grafdigger's, by putting our cheap creatures in play and hitting. Thoughts?
in my list i MB 4 dakmor salvage for me to play my thugs and stinkweed impsQuote:
Originally Posted by slave
Why do I get a hard-on thinking about this line of play?Quote:
Originally Posted by nakazkirai
I do like the additional lines of play with this card. It accelerate dredges, protects cards from targeted hate and last but not least: fits into the style of a gravedeck cardwise :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood
Naturally it fits perfect in the probe slots. Now we have either Arbor or the removals to cut...both of which I really like in this deck :-/
Perhaps we can shave-cut it into the deck somewhere.
Addionally if you already have Shoal in your hand but are in need of a fatty, you can blast through tough creatures like Platinum Emperion with ease by getting Grisel back in your hand for the pitch.
Using Hollywood's list as reference you can make that substitutes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindlash
Remove:
[2x] Shambling Shell
[1x] Phantasmagorian
[1x] Sickening Shoal
Add:
[4x] Call to the Netherworld
//Dredgers
[4x] Golgari Grave-Troll
[4x] Stinkweed Imp
[4x] Golgari Thug
[1x] Shambling Shell
//Recursive Threats
[4x] Ichorid
[4x] Nether Shadow
//Combo Enablers
[4x] Narcomoeba
[4x] Street Wraith
[4x] Cabal Therapy
[4x] Bridge from Below
[3x] Phantasmagorian
//Utility Cards
[4x] Dryad Arbor
[3x] Contagion
[4x] Call to the Netherworld
//DR Package
[4x] Dread Return
[3x] Griselbrand
[2x] Flayer of the Hatebound
//Sideboard
[4x] Nature's Claim
[4x] Reverent Silence
[3x] Sickening Shoal
[2x] Verdant Catacombs
[1x] Forest
[1x] Contagion
Why I choose to remove that cards is because you really don't need more than 1 Shambling Shell because rarely you won't start with a dredge card and after you have your graveyard with more than one dredge you will never choose to dredge by Shambling Shell. Removed 1 Phantasmagorian because you dont need more than 3, with 1 you can trigger it as many necessary to drop all the cards from your hand, they can be food for Ichorid but it don't really matters because the focus is to win the fast as you can so you dont need that many copies. And the last card is Sickening Shoal but it can be 1 Contagion it depends of you like most.
I have uploaded a game using Call to the Netherworld against affinity and how it helped to speed my game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGsqi05HhrQ
Gitaxian Probe is good because it can help you to see oponnent's hand and use with Cabal Therapy but using Call to the Netherworld speeds more because you can activate during opponent's end phase so your nether shadows/Ichorid can enter next turn.
Netherworld looks awesome - cheers for the Vid.
Mikaeus?
I'm guessing this is all about the combination of Flayer & Dread Return, but do you find it really that useful?
Hey guys, if you side in the Forest + Fetchlands, do you side out the Dryad Arbors?
The Arbors are in the Maindeck to save sideboardspace and because they work really well in this deck. You board your Fetchlands and the Forest in addition to Arbors to fight hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Hollywoods posted some boardingplans on page 27 for reference.
Greetings Mindlash
In Manaless, you really don't want to go below fifteen (15) dredgers. Cutting Shell down to one seems iffy here.
Oh okay. My idea was wrong them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindlash
I was going to switch the Arbors to Dakmor Salvage and use Bloodghasts instead of Nether Shadow but now I do see that having virtually three green mana source post-board won't work.
thanks. I'm making some tests with other cards to see how they work with the deck. Griselbrand and Flayer are sufficient to end game but I like how Mikaeus boost all the tokens and other creatures of the deck and how it gives undying to them. With Mikaeus on the field every Ichorid become 4/2 and they undye during end phase and survives until opponent's end phase. So every creature will double the tokens of bridge and gives a new "effect" to every non used cabal therapy. Like I said Grisel and Flayer are enought to end game.Quote:
Originally Posted by slave
One card I really like is Chancellor of the Annex because the free "Daze" slow down opponents and make their free first turn not so great. And sometimes gives an extra turm against a fast show and tell omniscience because if they are tapped they can't play free griselbrand.
Well it's working for me but u can cut other cards too. Uploaded a video with the list i posted against a LED dredge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood
I think the Call to the Netherworld is better than gitaxian because you don't loose life if they counter that spell. And the main reason is if you chain phantasmagorian during opponent's end phase your chances to bring back an ichorid/nether shadow during your next upkeep is better than a main phase gitaxian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7krTEH7gtg
I don't get it,
How do you chain Call of the Netherworld to Phantasmagorian. It returns it back to your hand, not draw it.
I think I am missing something, can anyone explain please.
Thanks
Mikaeus is just a terrible option. You're better off playing simply Griselbrand and Flayer of the Hatebound. Both are simple and the most effective at what the deck is ultimately trying to accomplish. Mikaeus is simply a worse Flame-kin Zealot, really nothing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by nakazkirai
I'm sure your sample size is distorting your long-term percentages with this sort of build. Beginning the game with an 83.72% chance of opening a dredger seems incredibly low in a deck that inherently cannot mulligan. You simply cannot afford to start a game without a dredger - easily the most important card(s) in this archetype.Quote:
Well it's working for me but u can cut other cards too. Uploaded a video with the list i posted against a LED dredge.
I would agree in certain circumstances that Call is better than Probe, but there are also instances where Probe is simply better. If by "chain" you mean having two Phantasmagorian, then yes you could chain them into each other. Call is a spell that can only be used once and aside from its application with Street Wraith really is more overkill than anything else once you go to the sideboard.Quote:
I think the Call to the Netherworld is better than gitaxian because you don't loose life if they counter that spell. And the main reason is if you chain phantasmagorian during opponent's end phase your chances to bring back an ichorid/nether shadow during your next upkeep is better than a main phase gitaxian.
The one thing I do like about Call is how it is less dependent on opening or drawing into mana than something that would necessitate mana, like Claim, although both are used for different purposes. You really don't need to board against Surgical Extraction because it is the worst hate an opponent can use against you in most circumstances. Call is more overkill than anything else in that Street Wraith itself is useful against Extraction on dredgers. It's something I would consider; aside from that it's simply more cute than anything else.